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  1. #41
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    Okay, so I get the wanted to add new +4/+5 exceptional skill items and wanted to avoid too much stacking, ie. players getting +1+2+3 (gs) +4 (some new stuff) +5(some other new stuff)
    But why change GS? Had they made the new items to grant say +2 exceptional skill bonus and +2 (or more, depending on item) pumpernickel skill bonus (with only the highest pumpernickel bonus applying), the effects would be similar, except noone would complain about them messing with existing content.
    We've all seen what happens when they try to change something - it stops working completely, and three patches later the only way to fix it is to revert to an earlier version.

    I think the issue is the mentality, that the replacing old stuff with new stuff is a value in and off itself, and no one cares how useful/valuable the old stuff was and how the new fares in comparison.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    Debating what makes something a "nerf" is splitting hairs. They'll still be functional, but anything with stacking bonuses to the same skill set will be devalued in comparison with new GS.
    This.

  3. #43
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    I don't think would be a nerf persee, I do want to rebuild one greensteel item right now.
    Mainly my HP Smoke goggles, It was all dex now, might turn it into dex, int, con or something.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  4. #44
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    This new change looks like it's going to be great for the DDO Store, which is the main reason it's being implimented. More re-crafting, more ingredients to aquire, more Yellow Dopants and Raid Timer Bypasses being sold in the store. Another reason revolves around plans to sell more skill tomes, by dumbing down the existing system and laying the groundwork for further monetised power creep.

    I pity the suckers that still pay Turbine for the privelage of participating in this. The fact that some lonely, attention-starved people still spend time defending it, on this piddly little forum, as the only means of getting anyone to even notice they exist, just saddens me.
    your tinfoil hat is bigger than mine

  5. #45
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    I came from Lamma. My triple earth cloak in my main AND my min2 in my earth savant were both upgraded to give +2/+4/+6 skills.

    Thank you Nibel!

    Facts from someone I trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  6. #46
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    This new change looks like it's going to be great for the DDO Store, which is the main reason it's being implimented. More re-crafting, more ingredients to aquire, more Yellow Dopants and Raid Timer Bypasses being sold in the store. Another reason revolves around plans to sell more skill tomes, by dumbing down the existing system and laying the groundwork for further monetised power creep.

    I pity the suckers that still pay Turbine for the privelage of participating in this. The fact that some lonely, attention-starved people still spend time defending it, on this piddly little forum, as the only means of getting anyone to even notice they exist, just saddens me.
    At least you are consistent with not reading or paying attention to facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  7. #47
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    To be 'nerfed' an item would have to lose utility. No items are going to lose utility at all.
    Lots of people in this thread are NOT good at all at spotting nerfs. Note I usually like nerfs, but this one stinks.

    Everything is relative. The fact that your UMD and concentration remain the same value is meaningless. It's all about what is obtainable in the game, and what stats are put on the environment accordingly. You could MULTIPLY every stat in the game by 10, and the game would play identically. Everything just has a zero on the end of it, display-wise. Conversely, if you multiply some particular class' damage output, everyone who DIDN'T get multiplied is nerfed, horribly. This is essentially what happened in Update 9.

    This is a nerf to existing characters and existing items, with power creep added on to boot. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what is actually wrong with the game.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    At least you are consistent with not reading or paying attention to facts.
    Everything you quoted there is an actual fact. I don't have an agenda, I just tell it as I see it. That's why it probably seems strange to you. Is that why you felt compelled to reply, or because you know I'm good for an attention fix?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    your tinfoil hat is bigger than mine
    It's a sad state of affairs when people are accused of being paranoid for pointing out the most obvious explanation for events. The shocking truth behind that attitude is that on some secret level, most people think the world is a benevolent place.

    So much so that they can't openly admit the obvious truth, because it would require a huge re-think of every position they have ever taken on anything. For the brainwashed masses, it's easier to continue maintaining the delusion.

    On the other hand, I have encoutered a lot of people in my life who have admitted to believing in karma, spirits, fate, luck, UFO's, fortune tellers etc., so it's hard to know what makes people believe what they do, when even the pertinent facts seem irrelevant to the conclusions they draw.

  10. #50
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    Everything you quoted there is an actual fact. I don't have an agenda, I just tell it as I see it. That's why it probably seems strange to you. Is that why you felt compelled to reply, or because you know I'm good for an attention fix?

    How YOU see it is NOT fact, it is opinion.

    The post I quoted is filled with opinion with no basis in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #51
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    This is just to sell more dopants on the store. People that want the better version and don't want to have to suffer more shrouds have to pay.

  12. #52
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    It will give a small advantage to make new items with optimized skill combinations, but I can't really see this as a major issue.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    DDO items design... yet more random changes to existing loot /sigh
    I don't think it's random. They clearly have issues with equip order and stacking stats being improperly incalculated, and their system (and coders) cannot handle more than one source from each effect or it borks up and weird bugs happen. I guess I'd rather have only the highest apply, and doubling of it than have totally different values on my spreadsheet every time I load into a quest or re-equip gear! So, imo, incompetent programming and phantom bugs that they cannot find in the spaghetti mess from previous years is the reason for the change

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    The changes to exceptional skill items are the same as Dodge. Different bonus number of the same type will no longer stack, but everything's getting doubled.

    At a guess, I would say that the design philosophy is to simplify the logic for new players - a resistance 10 and a resistance 20 item don't stack, a +5 STR and a +6 STR don't stack. We get told all over the place that different types don't stack, only the highest number applies. But Dodge and Exceptional skill boost do stack ... but only when the number is different.

    Now we know about these exceptions, because we're used to it. I would say the thinking isn't to nerf you from orbit, it's to make the system consistent and easier to understand.

    This is just another example where a dev diary of some description to discuss the thinking behind a change would have made so much sense.

    EDIT: Basically, we just need to treat it the same way as the changes to dodge - it'll free up slots/crafting choices for other things.
    +1

  15. #55
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    How YOU see it is NOT fact, it is opinion.

    The post I quoted is filled with opinion with no basis in reality.
    You and I have never really shared the same opinion on most things, but honestly, how can you say that this is anything other than a cash grab.

    I find it quite humorous. Tell me again that it is not to sell more skill tomes, dopants and shroud by pass timers so people can get their shards.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  16. #56
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    You and I have never really shared the same opinion on most things, but honestly, how can you say that this is anything other than a cash grab.

    I find it quite humorous. Tell me again that it is not to sell more skill tomes, dopants and shroud by pass timers so people can get their shards.
    Because, you and I crafted a skill item to get that +6 that we wanted from it.

    Guess what, it STILL has the +6 skill on it that we originally crafted the GS item for.

    Now, if you DO want to utilize the new and improved system and squeeze everything you can out of GS and use the extra skill bonus options, you can re-craft if you want to. However, that +6 is still there, still able to be used and swapped to when you need it and in no way are you FORCED to re-craft anything.

    You have the CHOICE to continue to use your GS in the original way you intended when you made it or make it anew to max out those extra two slots now.

    I'm sure as the Nine Hells not going to re-craft any GS skill item to utilize two extra skill slots. To much hassle for far to little benefit.

    +2 to a skill and a +4? No way is it worth it or anything to get me into Shrouds, deal with pugtards, and re-craft the one or two items I have that are used for +6 to a skill.

    A cash grab here would be if it was not a retroactive change forcing everyone to re-craft. Thankfully, it is retroactive and the +6 to a skill is still there and the main reason anyone crafted a GS skill item in the first place.

    The sky is not falling, the DEVs are not out to get you, the voices in your head are not real, and your microwave is not plotting with your toaster to get you.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 06-29-2013 at 03:01 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  17. #57
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    This is like complaining that you had to recraft all your cannith crafted items (except with more grind) once they added augment slots to things.

  18. #58
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Default Don't be so sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    your microwave is not plotting with your toaster to get you.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by locus View Post
    This is like complaining that you had to recraft all your cannith crafted items (except with more grind) once they added augment slots to things.
    You mean they didn't?

    Btw, has any of the complainers really stopped to think of what they can actually achieve through recrafting based on skill boost?

    If you want a Smoke item, it mandates a tier mix of air & fire. If you want that to be an HP item, you can only get Dex skills on every tier, no amount of recrafting will change that. The same is true for all double shard effects: spefic tier types are required. If you want both an HP & SP item with double shard effects, you can at best mix & match the HP & SP between the two items to squeeze out a couple extra skill boosts, though not necessarily to the skills you want to boost. (OMG Woot! I just got an exceptional skill boost to jump & swim! Sweet!)

    Now, if you're willing to give up on those double shard effects (maybe Smoke is over rated?) then you get more latitude in what skill boost you get in association with your HP/SP... But I kinda figured there was already going to be some redrafting happening anyway, from casters in particular, with the new spell power relevant skills coming... I mean really, is anyone already running around with a +3 (soon to be +6) Int skill item?

    So considering that 1) The number of useful skill categories that could/will benefit from a newly crafted vs existing GS are small, and 2) the number of skills you can boost while seeking any specific double shard effect is extremely limited...

    All this huff & puff seems to me like a huge waste, there's still plenty of genuinely complaint worthy issues out there.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-29-2013 at 03:48 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  20. #60
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post

    Hehe, with a good deal of posters hear, I'm positive they think they are in collusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

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