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  1. #21
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No, I didn't forget that at all.

    This is a nerf to existing greensteel items, going from having 3 useful properties to only 1.

    The fact that the numeric total didn't change is quite beside the point that this makes those items obsolete.

    PS: Yes, you could view it as a buff to FUTURE greensteel items that you didn't build yet, but it still nerfs the existing ones.
    So what your telling us is that you did a character copy to Llama yourself, logged in, examined your GS items and they were not retroactively changed to the new and improved system?

    You personally verified this, right?!? I mean, you would have to to be claiming how badly existing ones were nerfed. I would be foolish to not have done that first before making such claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  2. #22
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    The changes to exceptional skill items are the same as Dodge. Different bonus number of the same type will no longer stack, but everything's getting doubled.

    At a guess, I would say that the design philosophy is to simplify the logic for new players - a resistance 10 and a resistance 20 item don't stack, a +5 STR and a +6 STR don't stack. We get told all over the place that different types don't stack, only the highest number applies. But Dodge and Exceptional skill boost do stack ... but only when the number is different.

    Now we know about these exceptions, because we're used to it. I would say the thinking isn't to nerf you from orbit, it's to make the system consistent and easier to understand.

    This is just another example where a dev diary of some description to discuss the thinking behind a change would have made so much sense.

    EDIT: Basically, we just need to treat it the same way as the changes to dodge - it'll free up slots/crafting choices for other things.

  3. #23
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    My vote is if you quit the game you should quit the forums to because your opinion no longer matters go away and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
    I just block them as soon as they admit they no longer play. I have found they rarely have anything worthwhile to say, yet they keep saying it over and over and over again.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No, I didn't forget that at all.

    This is a nerf to existing greensteel items, going from having 3 useful properties to only 1.

    The fact that the numeric total didn't change is quite beside the point that this makes those items obsolete.

    PS: Yes, you could view it as a buff to FUTURE greensteel items that you didn't build yet, but it still nerfs the existing ones.
    Yah... All that HP, SP, Blur, Fortification & clickies... Totally gone to rubbish now.

    Oh, and for the sake of doom we'll also completely ignore the total buff any items that have a varity of skill boosts are going to receive (since the don't just break even - they increase).
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  5. #25
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No, I didn't forget that at all.

    This is a nerf to existing greensteel items, going from having 3 useful properties to only 1.

    The fact that the numeric total didn't change is quite beside the point that this makes those items obsolete.

    PS: Yes, you could view it as a buff to FUTURE greensteel items that you didn't build yet, but it still nerfs the existing ones.
    Existing GS1/2/3 item gives you +6 to said skill now. It will give +6 to said skill later. Where is the nerf?

  6. #26
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    I'm more interested in hearing what's going to happen with Greensteel HP and SP items and have a sneaking suspicion this is an attempted proxy nerf to finally ween us off those stacking GS bonuses.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by anatomyofaghost View Post
    I'm more interested in hearing what's going to happen with Greensteel HP and SP items and have a sneaking suspicion this is an attempted proxy nerf to finally ween us off those stacking GS bonuses.
    On the other hand, what if those tier 2 & 3 effects (not the wizardry VI) get the non-stacking doubling treatment? That could end up with some very not-too-shabby combos...

    Perhaps a slight (talking 5 HP) nerf in available HP, but SP is 50/100 (tier 2/3) So still looking at an over all buff there too as a doubling of tier 3 (becoming 200) exceeds the total 50+100 we currently have.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-28-2013 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Checked my numbers, edited accordingly
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Existing GS1/2/3 item gives you +6 to said skill now. It will give +6 to said skill later. Where is the nerf?

    I think you guys are missing out on his point, or I'm totally missing something. Please enlighten me if I am.

    Current greensteel skills to get to +6 require crafting at tiers 1, 2, and 3.

    Future greensteel skills to get to +6 will only require crafting at tier 3. And so current greensteel may look nerfed, because future greensteel you can craft other options at tiers 1 and 2, so future greensteel can be more powerful.

    Yes? No? Have I had too much beer?

    ...J

    edited to add: I realize the functionality of existing greensteel will be the same. I'm just saying it "looks" like a nerf if future greensteel is improved. I'm not complaining at all, just trying to see what the OP is seeing.
    Last edited by JamnJD; 06-28-2013 at 07:53 PM. Reason: addition
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    No, I didn't forget that at all.

    This is a nerf to existing greensteel items, going from having 3 useful properties to only 1.

    The fact that the numeric total didn't change is quite beside the point that this makes those items obsolete.

    PS: Yes, you could view it as a buff to FUTURE greensteel items that you didn't build yet, but it still nerfs the existing ones.
    And +5 skill greensteel items just became +6 ones. Were those nerfed too?

    If so.... MOAR NERF!

  10. #30
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    DDO items design... yet more random changes to existing loot /sigh
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  11. #31
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    Are they changing the mechanic without retroactively changing the bonuses to the existing greensteel? If they are changing the bonuses to existing greensteel, I have no problem with this.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamnJD View Post
    I think you guys are missing out on his point, or I'm totally missing something. Please enlighten me if I am.

    Current greensteel skills to get to +6 require crafting at tiers 1, 2, and 3.

    Future greensteel skills to get to +6 will only require crafting at tier 3. And so current greensteel may look nerfed, because future greensteel you can craft other options at tiers 1 and 2, so future greensteel can be more powerful.

    Yes? No? Have I had too much beer?

    ...J

    edited to add: I realize the functionality of existing greensteel will be the same. I'm just saying it "looks" like a nerf if future greensteel is improved. I'm not complaining at all, just trying to see what the OP is seeing.
    Debating what makes something a "nerf" is splitting hairs. They'll still be functional, but anything with stacking bonuses to the same skill set will be devalued in comparison with new GS. Maybe we'll all get some free dopants or something for the trouble.

    I'm still curious as to why they decided this needed doing. No, I don't buy the "easier for newbs" line. By the time you get to the Vale, either you've got the learning curve figured (or at least know how to find the wiki), or you just plain don't care. Whatever. At this point I'm over disappointment and enjoying the surrealism- the train derailed a while back and the engineers bailed, there's gonna be fireworks and popcorn shortly.

  13. #33

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    I am alright with the changes per the Lamannia notes. SO LONG AS all players are given sufficient Yellow Dopant and Greensteel crafting materials to REMAKE EACH piece of Greensteel that is impacted by this change.



    Otherwise, /unsigned.



    I understand that you need item flexibility to battle power creep, Turbine. Get creative, and find your solution ELSEWHERE.

  14. #34
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbynature View Post
    Are they changing the mechanic without retroactively changing the bonuses to the existing greensteel? If they are changing the bonuses to existing greensteel, I have no problem with this.
    They would kinda have to, don't you think?

    Can you imagine the player base forced to re-craft all skill bonus GS?

    Nobody has even gone and looked to see if this is a retro change or even chimed in with personal experience from Llama - just some "The Sky is Falling" BS.

    Until we hear it from a DEV, I have seen it personally, or from someone I trust, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that it will indeed be a retro change.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  15. #35
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cauthey_No_CCInfo View Post
    I am alright with the changes per the Lamannia notes. SO LONG AS all players are given sufficient Yellow Dopant and Greensteel crafting materials to REMAKE EACH piece of Greensteel that is impacted by this change.
    No, not this time. The enhancement pass presents a major loss of functionality to many if not all builds, so they should give us a means to compensate for that. Here though, there is no loss of functionality (assuming a retroactive change, which I do), only break-evens or buffs, so they owe us nothing.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-28-2013 at 11:40 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #36
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    So I've been playing with the crafting planner, and think I've found my new GS items. I was already in the market to craft one, and considering the (potential?) change to the skill boosts, I started looking at how to get the most for my ingredients. Building for my Cleric, I still like conc-op, but I'm not married to it either.

    Criteria
    •Full HP & SP benefits.
    •Smoke: permablur & displace clicky, one item must have this.
    •Longevity: nothing like Wizardry VI that would get (quickly) out dated.
    •Maximised remaining potential.

    What I came up with (all skill boosts listed as per the new rule)
    •Item one (Smoke Item)
    T1- 10 HP (wasted Dex skill boost)
    T2- 50 SP/ +4 Cha skills/ Displace clicky
    T3- 20 HP/ +6 Dex skills/permablur

    •Item two
    T1- Blindness Immunity/Resist Disease +6
    T2- 15 HP/ +4 Str skills/ (Horrid Wilting 3/day if T3 is double shard)
    T3- 100 SP/+6 Wis skills/ (Corrosive Salt Gaurd if double shard)

    I'm not sure if Spellcraft effects Blade Barrier, or any other divine spells (any input there appreciated), so I'm not sure if working in an Int skill boost would be highly beneficial.

    So what do all y'all think? Totally open to critiques & suggestions, lol not like I've spent any mats yet
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-29-2013 at 12:09 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Nobody has even gone and looked to see if this is a retro change or even chimed in with personal experience from Llama - just some "The Sky is Falling" BS.
    I came from Lamma. My triple earth cloak in my main AND my min2 in my earth savant were both upgraded to give +2/+4/+6 skills.
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  18. #38
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    I don't think this is anything like the change to poison immunity and disease immunity.

    From what I can tell my items will remain the same or get better with regards to exc skill bonus, but the real question is whether the gs exc skill bonuses are even relevant after the release. Is Turbine introducing new skill bonuses that are far superior to gs bonuses on U19 named items and/or augments? If so exceptional cha skill +6 may be irrelevant and there would be no need to remake greensteel. GS is a level 11 item after all, so it only stands to reason that it won't be the best exc skill bonus available in the game as it is today.

    Are exc bonuses to sp/hp changing? It seems odd they would change dodge/exc skills to work like everything else but not hp/sp.
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  19. #39
    The Hatchery Rawrargh's Avatar
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    I think it's great - my 150 + 150 SP conc-opp is now gonna give +6charisma skills instead of +5 and my 45 HP smoke (where I don't really care about the skill bonus) is gonna stay the same.

    Overall I'm getting +1 UMD and +1 Int skill from my concopp compared to live. That's a buff no matter how you look at it.
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  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by charononus View Post
    yeah it's not a nerf per say
    Oh the pain, it burns, aargh!

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