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  1. #41
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phemt81 View Post
    well, the paladin is way underpowered.
    It's underpowered from an offensive point of view.

    From a defensive point of view, it's the equivalent of watching Goku munching on Sensu beans.

    Granted, it's the equivalent of a sausage trying to think of a way not to be eaten. It's not gonna happen, it's just to juicy and delicious.

  2. #42
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Dont get you guys, why the palie hate?
    Have you ever rolled a pyrene?

    Before you try it pls dont refer palies as bad.
    Purely endgame list now is like this:

    1. shiradi casters
    2. selfheal manyshot hybrids like juggs and pyrenes
    3. monkchers, dc arties
    4. everything else

    99999. bards (you can just use a bard to fill in a slot to get buffs and then drop it from party for smthn useful)

    On cannith we got some good ee completionist rogues, some decent hybrids, some casters.

    But.. We got a str/dex based pure monk.. Who dumped wisdom.. Sigh.
    So in the end its all about the player, but giving a good player one of the former listed build will result in more efficiency.
    I defend palies as im playing a 24th life pyrene completionist and noone can proove me that its bad.
    Atm its one of the most fun builds in ddo.
    Shiradis are spaming 4-7 buttons, monkchers are all about kiting, while pyrenes and juggs are real man that frontline (Though pyrenes are beter due to more saves, hp and prr atm)
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 07-04-2013 at 09:59 AM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    It's underpowered from an offensive point of view.
    Nope. 99% folks go with stupid sword and board in sentinel ALL THE TIME.
    Raids, quests, everything. "Tanking "where it's absolutely not needed ( and getting ~ 2 kills in the process ), contributing absolutely nothing in any EE except scaling.

    High Road, GH, Citw, whatever. And saying " I am hard to kill but I am totally useless " like it's some kind of virtue.
    Few Pyrene-esque toons appeared on Ghallanda, so that's something.

  4. #44
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Nope. 99% folks go with stupid sword and board in sentinel ALL THE TIME.
    Raids, quests, everything. "Tanking "where it's absolutely not needed ( and getting ~ 2 kills in the process ), contributing absolutely nothing in any EE except scaling.

    High Road, GH, Citw, whatever. And saying " I am hard to kill but I am totally useless " like it's some kind of virtue.
    Few Pyrene-esque toons appeared on Ghallanda, so that's something.
    maybe you should read up on S&B. they get additional threat, PRR, increase in stats/hp, increase in MDB among some other things as well as all the pre-reqs they need to take that boost other things as long as they have taken the prestige. without the prestige, than I can see your point. its not about thow many kills someone has. its how they use that build in a group to be worth that slot.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    maybe you should read up on S&B. they get additional threat, PRR, increase in stats/hp, increase in MDB among some other things as well as all the pre-reqs they need to take that boost other things as long as they have taken the prestige. without the prestige, than I can see your point. its not about thow many kills someone has. its how they use that build in a group to be worth that slot.
    I have twf stalwart myself and tanked with s+b tens if not hundreds Tods or Vods back in the day. Still pop a shield for Fot, or skelly in PoP or whatever. But if I join Citw as dps, i switch to fury and get dps twists.
    Also HUGE fan of Zerkul's build ( s+b stalwart in dread ).

    I put ee byoh lfms up as much as I can, and EVERY paladin that joins is sentinel or levelling some **** destiny.
    Getting 2 kills and dying in the process I might add.
    And yes , IT IS about killing power 99% time.

    It seems like there is a secret pally order. " Thou shalt be a pansy forever, don't you dare leave sentinel or s+b evah ."
    Last edited by Veles; 07-04-2013 at 11:22 AM.

  6. #46
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    maybe you should read up on S&B. they get additional threat, PRR, increase in stats/hp, increase in MDB among some other things as well as all the pre-reqs they need to take that boost other things as long as they have taken the prestige. without the prestige, than I can see your point. its not about thow many kills someone has. its how they use that build in a group to be worth that slot.
    Pallies are the least useful class in the game. At least a bard can buff others and haste.

  7. #47
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    I have twf stalwart myself and tanked with s+b tens if not hundreds Tods or Vods back in the day. Still pop a shield for Fot, or skelly in PoP or whatever. But if I join Citw as dps, i switch to fury and get dps twists.
    Also HUGE fan of Zerkul's build ( s+b stalwart in dread ).

    I put ee byoh lfms up as much as I can, and EVERY paladin that joins is sentinel or levelling some **** destiny.
    Getting 2 kills and dying in the process I might add.
    And yes , IT IS about killing power 99% time.
    I would screen better if someone is in a destiny that is not of their class when running EE. theres a huge difference.

    you are confusing kills total with kill dps. theres a difference with that too. either way, a S&B should be utilizing that build as its built and intended for since its what its best at. theres no actual tanking required in most quests/raids, but S&B can still draw the agro and should be able to absorb the damage better than that all out raged dps machine drawing agro requiring more heals than the rest of the party.

    I used to play a SD and that's how I played. I always had the lowest kills, but I saved healers a lot of mana, rogues loved their high sneak attack numbers and overall the groups he was in went very smoothly.

  8. #48
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Pallies are the least useful class in the game. At least a bard can buff others and haste.
    LOL. you should play the class and know how to play one before commenting

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    LOL. you should play the class and know how to play one before commenting
    Now you ****ed off the ranger maffia, run !

    No seriously, despite the name, he might forgot more about the tanking than you will ever know

  10. #50
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    And palie hate continues proving people dont like to play unkillable killing machines...


    Yep yep.. People are... People indeed... People..

    Hard to find words beside: " Try before repeating what others talk about".

    Yes 2-3 years ago palies were bad, with ac brakout you could make a stalwart with more ac, yes they had healing but tanks before always had a babysitter.

    Its like you people do not count epic destinies now.
    Epic destiny is where the dps comes from, and most useful ee hybrids or pures are the ones who can selfheal.
    So... A human palie in stalwart 2-3 with 5 lays that hit for 600-750 hp (with amp and gear), cure ser which can hit for 250-300 and heal scrolls is amazing dps. (not counting saves which can hit 50-70)
    To be able to survive and kill things while maintaining survival is "DPS" in current ddo.
    Theras making dps palies amazing atm.
    Everyone can get 10 blitz stacks but not everyone can heal the damage done to them from ee mobs.

  11. #51
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    LOL. you should play the class and know how to play one before commenting
    In 2011 I had a 100 AC TWFing DOS tank who tanked everything in the game making them look stupid.

    I played one of those "Pyrene-like" builds recently and found it to be disappointing. The added survivability (which was great) didn't make up for it's terrible DPS. Sure it was okay when it blitzed but everything is. The DPS was about the same as a bad bard.

    Lousy DPS class, tanks are not needed. Pallies just serve no purpose. Except as a past life and the 5 of those I've run up have been painful.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 07-04-2013 at 03:06 PM.

  12. #52
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    think arti is high up but lot of that is the selfheal from being WF and then lot of how useful and good shiradi ED is.

    still take a arti that has not a maxed ED and no twists and his not very useful in EE think that EDs, the benefit of this is that the endgame is little less gear dependent which i approve of in this case.

    ED fun when you have them but boring as hell to get
    TR fun to get but not fun when you have (+1...good yes but not fun)

  13. #53
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    And palie hate continues proving people dont like to play unkillable killing machines...
    .
    Unkillable GIMPING-machines you mean?

  14. #54
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Unkillable GIMPING-machines you mean?
    Seems i never learn: "Dont feed the trolls".

    Still havent learned that lesson from months of looking at cannithtrade.

    I shall pull back and say ignorance is bliss and yes palies are horrible, indeed horrible.
    Worst, worst, close to useless. And il go roll a dart throwing kensai ninja spy dwarf
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 07-04-2013 at 03:36 PM.

  15. #55
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Double post

  16. #56
    Community Member Takllin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    In 2011 I had a 100 AC TWFing DOS tank who tanked everything in the game making them look stupid.

    I played one of those "Pyrene-like" builds recently and found it to be disappointing. The added survivability (which was great) didn't make up for it's terrible DPS. Sure it was okay when it blitzed but everything is. The DPS was about the same as a bad bard.

    Lousy DPS class, tanks are not needed. Pallies just serve no purpose. Except as a past life and the 5 of those I've run up have been painful.
    You can't be serious. A bad bard has more dps than a paladin? Just based off buffs the paladin has more dps than a bard. Then throw in PrE and class abilities.

    Part of the reason paladins get so much hate is because they are a very attractive class for new players. You get a chance to play with someone who actually knows the ins n outs of it, and they are fun. I'm readin more of bad players than bad a bad class critiques.

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  17. #57
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    In 2011 I had a 100 AC TWFing DOS tank who tanked everything in the game making them look stupid.

    I played one of those "Pyrene-like" builds recently and found it to be disappointing. The added survivability (which was great) didn't make up for it's terrible DPS. Sure it was okay when it blitzed but everything is. The DPS was about the same as a bad bard.

    Lousy DPS class, tanks are not needed. Pallies just serve no purpose. Except as a past life and the 5 of those I've run up have been painful.
    sounds like a build problem not a class problem. i played 3 lives of a pure human KOTC paladin. i hadn't had that much fun leveling a character in a long time. it convinced me that when i have time, my next character will be a paladin. i loved how versatile the build is with really good dps and survivability.

    tanking is not needed most of the time, but tanking should be used more often. DOS and SD are supposed to be the better builds at drawing agro and absorbing damage, taking on the brunt of the fighting. you don't have to turtle up at every mob fight, but its not hard for those builds to make questing much smoother by getting mobs focused on them instead of trying to be #1 in kills.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    And palie hate continues proving people dont like to play unkillable killing machines...


    Yep yep.. People are... People indeed... People..

    Hard to find words beside: " Try before repeating what others talk about".

    Yes 2-3 years ago palies were bad, with ac brakout you could make a stalwart with more ac, yes they had healing but tanks before always had a babysitter.

    Its like you people do not count epic destinies now.
    Epic destiny is where the dps comes from, and most useful ee hybrids or pures are the ones who can selfheal.
    So... A human palie in stalwart 2-3 with 5 lays that hit for 600-750 hp (with amp and gear), cure ser which can hit for 250-300 and heal scrolls is amazing dps. (not counting saves which can hit 50-70)
    To be able to survive and kill things while maintaining survival is "DPS" in current ddo.
    Theras making dps palies amazing atm.
    Everyone can get 10 blitz stacks but not everyone can heal the damage done to them from ee mobs.
    I find it interesting you were spouting off about bards earlier when they can also take epic destinies where the DPS comes from, use cure critical instead of cure serious, and hit much larger heal scroll numbers. Those same comments apply. The amount of damage applied to a group, particularly a raid group, is still very significant and not something to casually dismiss.

    I would place them low on the list because they are too dependent on groups for a large portion of damage and their direct damage tends to be low, and immunities impact their spells and songs. Paladins are much less squishy in my experience, but are **** at CC, and there are times CC comes into play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  19. #59
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    For Heroic TR leveling it is arcanes, divines, then monks. I would rate barb the lowest, even lower than pally.

  20. #60
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    For Heroic TR leveling it is arcanes, divines, then monks. I would rate barb the lowest, even lower than pally.
    Barbs are actually pretty good while leveling. At early levels, they are almost indestructible with DR boosts, uncanny dodges, sprint and higher dps (with cleaves ofc).
    Paladins are better ofc, but a barb can play like a secondary sorc. :P Gather mobs, hit uncanny+DR (+displace if you have), and cleave them to hell!
    I would rate fighters the lowest real melee as leveling character.
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