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  1. #21
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    1 Rangers
    2 Everything else is equally unappealing to me.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
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    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  2. #22
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    My uncle likes to say, 'There are no bad dogs, just bad people.'

    I like to think there are no bad classes.
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  3. #23
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    Based largely on my own experience playing most of the classes, but not all, but also based on others that I've seen dominate quests over my play lifetime.

    I've capped cleric, bard, wiz, arty, paladin, FvS, and bardbarian. So, YMMV.

    Strongest:
    Pale Masters. Probably more than just about any other class, the one class that just seems to be the most utterly badass of all the classes are pale masters. I'm talking about the uber "Just pike this elite Shavarath quest while I go solo it for you" variety. Like, Pale Masters tend to sort of exist on a plane of their own, and everyone else just picks up their table scraps.

    Second strongest are probably WF Favored Souls. I've seen non-epic versions of these with over 1,000 hit points, and more DPS than the entire party combined. I watched a 20th level one tank the end boss in epic Chrono. A well-built FvS is a thing of wonder.

    Monks. Generally light monks. They hardly ever need healed, and out-DPS any other melee in the party. Evasion and ridiculous saves mean they are nearly indestructible.

    Sorcs. They tend to be a bit more squishy, but a well-played sorcerer can generally lead the kill count in any quest, and solo most elite content.

    Paladins. Generally weaksauce in the DPS department, but my experience with a capped paladin was that it was nearly impossible to kill. I wasn't keeping score, but my paladin life probably incurred less than a dozen deaths for the entire 20 life run. After a failed near-wipe in Running with the Devils on elite, my paladin picked up everyone else's soul stone while every boss was aggro'd on her, and managed to kill 4 of them single-handedly, and then decided that I'd be nice and took the stones to the shrine so everyone could help her kill the last one together.

    Artificers. My current life. In the lower levels, I could solo nearly everything on elite. Up to about level 9 quests or so. In many cases, I could one-shot everything - even some bosses. Wilderness areas were just a joke. I didn't start to feel the limitations of the DPS of this class until the teens. If the DPS kept pace at the later levels like it does in the earlier levels, this would easily be the most powerful class.

    Wizards, barbarians, rangers, fighters, druids. All these tend to be on par with each other, I think. I've never seen a real stand-out when these are in a quest. Generally speaking, of course.

    Clerics. I've played clerics. Several in fact. I don't care how awesome you're cleric is. You're in denial if you think a cleric can dish out seriously awesome melee damage. Can they be effective and survivable? Yes, but clerics fall about here on my list. Deal with it.

    Rogues. Yes, occasionally rogues are awesome, but generally they are quite weak, and prone to dying - a lot, and the fact that most people aren't willing to wait on them sneaking around anywhere, hinders them. Deal with it.

    Bards. That's right. Bards are the worst. Yes, they are fun. I've played two - a pure bard, and a bardbarian. The latter was kind of a badass, but couldn't out-DPS anyone else at end-game, though she was kind of a beast in mid-game content. The pure bard was weaker than my healbot cleric, although her will saves were quite outrageous. Low hit points, horrible DPS, and no offensive spells to speak of. That's not to say you could build a *decent* bard that could be effective, but even the best bards are probably still at the bottom of this list.
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  4. #24
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    There seems to be a lot of bard hate here but I think a well built bard is definitely a benefit to a party in EE content, sure they aren't the easiest to lvl to 20 but I have solo cc'd the majority of the EE GH quests out there (incl. Crucible) and have found him quite resilient.
    My split is 16Bard/2fighter/2rogue running with Khopeshes and running as a virtuoso, 60+ songs, + enthrallment Vs. fascinate and song of capering (effectively like Ottos Irrestible Dance but has a huge range) is enough to lock down a complete quest without needing to shrine at all.
    Of course you have to play the bard smart, you cant play it like a Barb, you need to play smart.

    Enthrall/fascinate then ottos dance a single mob, this is the melees target, they beat it you dance another they move to that one, rinse and repeat, sure you cant steamroll EEs like this but you would be surprised what sort of parties can actually complete EE quests using this method.

    But enough of the bard love, I truly believe there is merits in every base class and their effectiveness is much more dependent on who is playing them and how they are geared, sure a Juggernaught is going to perform well in EE content if played and geared correctly, but players that can steamroll EE content on a Jug could probably also do it on a 16Cleric/2ranger/2pali......

    Some of the best toons I have seen are first life rogues, some of the worst I have seen played are multi life WF arcanes.
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  5. #25
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    1.) Well played Rogues. You are never going to truly out-dps a well played, well built rogue. Add in the power of a 2 rogue splash, and you start to realize why this is #1.
    2.) Fighters. Master of Tactics, and that stupid amount of feats means you're pretty much capable of having a twf/thf/ranged build all at once. Lower than the rogue because it takes a lot more for them to survive, but are just such a good addition to parties and are a base for so many builds that they deserve the #2 slot.
    3.) Rangers. You have infinite ammunition, and can do everything a fighter can except tactics, and have built in self heals. Gimp my *ss, Rangers are powerful.
    4.) Monks. Light or Dark, you're a welcome addition to any party. From quick and powerful stuns to actually being a high dps class (well played Dark Monks) coupled with the fact that they don't suck for self sufficiency, and again are the basis for so many builds and is often used as a splash that it's hard to argue their power.
    5.) Arti's. All the same reasons as the Rangers, except much more ranged focused. Infinite ammo (seriously, Echoes of power is also known as Arti's have infinite ammo) and their rune arms, plus self healing (through multiple sources) makes them powerful.
    6.) Pure heal bot Clerics/Battle Clerics/Caster Clerics: Huge amounts of both self and party healing. This alone makes them the most powerful of all casters IMO.
    7.) Sorc/Wizards: High powered, but take a good player to be able to manage the spellpoints. When all your power is dependent on a blue bar, it's a hard class to learn. Also since now their power is limited heavily (dc's are a bit high and most are creating shiradi casters) they are shoved far down the list.
    8.) Caster FVS/Healbot FVS/Battle souls: You're at 8 because until they can figure out how to get you guys back to pre U14 levels, everything just seems lackluster. Your melee dps isn't that great, I'm sorry but spell dps is severely lacking (I hate this oh so much. I really seriously liked my fvs, but she's gonna tr because I can't stand it) and when you're out of sp, you're done. Zip, Zero, Nada. Battle souls gain an advantage here, and silver flame capstone fvs at least have their SLA, but until you find a shrine you really are useless.
    9.) Juggernauts: You have to be a pretty dang good player to pull this off. It's super gear intensive, they do everything they can to raise their dps to acceptable levels, but in the end most forget something severe. This is not meant to be in the highest tier of the dps scale. This is meant to be a very survivable build with multiple dps options, but you cannot expect me to believe that you are ever going to come close to a cleave-tard Barbarian, even with Manyshot. Can you survive quite well? Yes, yes you absolutely can. That's been proven plenty of times. What is the problem with them then, Mr. Night? The problem is exactly that. They're built for soloing. I've seen so many die, that's it's hard for me to believe that the build is great. So many are trying it on first life characters, and range from acceptable to just downright terrible.
    10.) Barbarians. Just TR into something else, and save yourself the pain. Your DPS is quite amazing, but you gave up SO much for it that it's just despicable. You drink Silver Gimp pots like an alcoholic, and if you don't have them you're just a worthless meatsack begging for a heal.

    I intentionally left out Bards and Druids. These classes vary in power so greatly that some aspects put them down toward the bottom while others put them toward the top.

  6. #26
    Community Member vegabond1969's Avatar
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    Been playing Rangers and Pallys since there were Rangers and Pallys. I don't care what you say about classes. If you have a good player, a vet, and experienced, they can make any class in the game scream with a vengence. Races are the same thing. All my toons are drow and I've had barbs nerd rage when my ranger flat out got more kills and carried their stones to the shrine, same with casters. The funniest ones are always those warforged caster/monk builds. I love hearing them QQ.
    If you have a group with only DPS in it and are shouting "LFM, need healer and tank"; you aren't Looking for More, you're Looking for Group.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegabond1969 View Post
    Been playing Rangers and Pallys since there were Rangers and Pallys. I don't care what you say about classes. If you have a good player, a vet, and experienced, they can make any class in the game scream with a vengence. Races are the same thing. All my toons are drow and I've had barbs nerd rage when my ranger flat out got more kills and carried their stones to the shrine, same with casters. The funniest ones are always those warforged caster/monk builds. I love hearing them QQ.
    This ^^

    But I wonder whether the OP is looking for the best class/build for a new player to start with.
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  8. #28
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    IMO

    1 to 20:


    Tier1:
    19sorc/1barb
    19wiz/1barb
    19fvs/1barb caster with cleaves
    19clc/1barb caster with cleaves

    Tier2:
    Cleaving melees (THF or monk or monk splashes)
    Druids
    Arties
    Rangers
    Paladins
    Rogues
    melee bards

    Tier3:
    Non melee Bards


    at cap:

    Tier1:
    Sorcs
    Wizards
    Arties
    SS Bards
    monk archers

    Tier2:
    barbs, kenseis
    tanks
    rangers
    rogues
    monks
    fvs, cleric, druids

    Tier3:
    "dps" paladins
    warchanters (maybe tier2)
    Cannith
    Csodaszarvas
    Valyria - Hulkie - Sillymilly - Killberry - Silvyanna - Walour - Corgak - Thalrian-1

  9. #29
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    1.)
    3.) Rangers. You have infinite ammunition, and can do everything a fighter can except tactics, and have built in self heals. Gimp my *ss, Rangers are powerful.
    You've never made me happier.
    But just to prove you wrong, I think I'll make my next life 12Ranger/6Fighter/2Barb With a workable Stunning Blow.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  10. #30
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    You've never made me happier.
    But just to prove you wrong, I think I'll make my next life 12Ranger/6Fighter/2Barb With a workable Stunning Blow.
    Oh dear xD You have fun with that one. I'll just be over here dominating on me baby rogue.

  11. #31
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    I have a fury smiting KOTC pally in my rotation. It's a one hit kill in EH quests but not in EE.

    I could see moving pally down to tier 3, but not because of the DPS. A lack of tactical bonuses/room for tactical feats and the need to be in melee would be my reasoning.
    Yes and its much harder to fit the bow feats for manyshot/fury shot into a paladin build....it can be done but paladins are just so feat starved.

  12. #32
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    You guys sleeping on bards are nuts

  13. #33
    Community Member Enir's Avatar
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    Default No class is weaker than any other, just different play style

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    My uncle likes to say, 'There are no bad dogs, just bad people.'

    I like to think there are no bad classes.
    Agree! No bad classes, just some really, really bad players.

    Ref Barbs: The vast majority of players who pick this class have a 'zerg' mindset. They run ahead of the party, without support, wade into the mobs and rapidly die all too often. There are smart, awesome Barb players, but they are sadly few and far between.
    Ref Bards: Simply misunderstood by the many parties and mishandled by many players. Again, there are a few really awesome Bards, but it is really up to the player.
    Ref Wiz/ Sorc: Most times they are the 'easy button'. Nuke, Nuke, Nuke, done. Or out of sp and hide in a corner.

    Rather than rating from 'Strongest to Weakest', how about rating from 'Easy to most Challenging'?
    Last edited by Enir; 07-03-2013 at 09:39 AM. Reason: another thought
    Where is my Iludium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator?

  14. #34
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    Any class in the right player's hands can outperform just about any FoTW in most player's mitts. I love pugging with some of the classes most are scared to death of, but are played excellently by people on the server.

    Funniest experience in this regard was the naif with Jugg who ended up in the inescapeable lava pit in Madstone and proceeded to whine over the mic about his predicament while he slowed ticked towards his death. You can't re-roll stupid.

    Learn the class' capabilities and the content, and any player can dominate most any situation. Most only loosely grasp their own capabilities, and only a tiny handful know the content inside and out (maybe cause many farm a handful of quests only).

  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enir View Post

    Rather than rating from 'Strongest to Weakest', how about rating from 'Easy to most Challenging'?
    .

    because some of the classes really are ****.

    A great player can still be good in a lousy class, but he'd be better in a strong one.

  16. #36
    Community Member Takllin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegabond1969 View Post
    I don't care what you say about classes. If you have a good player, a vet, and experienced, they can make any class in the game scream with a vengence. Races are the same thing.
    Couldn't agree with you more here. It's all personal preference. But I absolutely refuse to believe that a stalwart defender sword n board can out DPS a paladin. There is so much unwarranted hate on the class it drives me nuts. They are one of the hardest classes to build, gear and play, but damn are they awesome if your one of those who can do that.

    Tokun PDK 12 Monk/4 Paladin/4 Fighter (3x Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue/2x Bard, Barbarian PL)
    Tekllin Human 20 Sorc (3x Sorc, Wiz PL)
    Jadokis Purple Dragon Knight 18 Barbarian/1 Favored Soul/1 Fighter (3x Bard, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Rogue/2x Favored Soul/Heroic and Epic Completionist)
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    They will still suck.
    Theres a quote in someones signature that Dr House said one time, everytime I see a post by you I think about it.

  18. #38
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    Theres a quote in someones signature that Dr House said one time, everytime I see a post by you I think about it.
    I should remind you of Dr. House. I'm friggin brilliant.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I should remind you of Dr. House. I'm friggin brilliant.
    In a scary loopy kind of way.
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  20. #40
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    My uncle likes to say, 'There are no bad dogs, just bad people.'

    I like to think there are no bad classes.
    well, the paladin is way underpowered.
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

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