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Thread: Secret Doors!

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This is the poison immunity nonsense all over again.
    I expect this to continue through all facets of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    Also.. Couldn't help but notice you're making it so nothing is guaranteed to succeed any more except the store bought item. At least, it sounds that way from the initial layout. Good luck to you!
    This is a 'design goal'. Expect more of the same.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by scraap View Post
    looks like the general intent is to put more weight on skills, so counter-proposal:

    1) spot triggers a search roll.
    2) detect secret doors bypasses spot and adds 5 to your search check without rolling.
    3) true seeing bypasses spot and adds 10 ("taking 10" from the older rulebooks). Bonus points if it also applies to traps.
    4) the search animation, rogue enhancement line, or store item adds 20 ("taking 20" from the older rulebooks).
    like!
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  3. #83
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    But that's another point. Why shouldn't a level 1 item be able to detect any secret doors Doors don't change, they are either secret or not. Why should it matter whether I go into a lvl 25 quest and can detect a door with a lvl 1 item. Is that some super hidden door?...
    Yeah it is super hidden due to the fact that a Level 25 wizard bothered to cast a protective spell. The reason why is as like a low level item crafted by a low level Artificer doesn't find, as like the anti-magic aura of Mentau or the Titan in The Master Artificer strip you of low level buffs/spells. Why do you think there exist a metamagic feat named Heighten?

    That said, I would like to see certain things obscured by other means then just a plain simple secret door. An excellent example is how they hid the Obscured Graveyard in the Eerie Forest. Sure they could also place runes in-front of the doors, but I bet that those are far more difficult to overcome by different classes then a secret door that just need you to bother then to get a high level secret door clicky from the AH.

    But please name me five secret doors that you are really worried about, on which class and why. Maybe then we can give constructive feedback with dedicated examples.
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  4. #84
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    The problem with secret doors is not True Seeing. The problem with secret doors is their static nature. Once a secret door is found, every one knows where it is. Making them unavailable to non-rogues is just lame.

    Also, I don't care about your shadar-kai assassin now. What makes you think strong-arming me into needing one will help matters? Improve the expansion so that I'll want it, don't nerf the old stuff so I'll need it. Then again, you could just do the right thing and let VIPs have it for free.

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  5. #85
    Community Member Aganthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I am astonished that with all the issues with this game you actually bothered spending time on something this trivial.

    This is the poison immunity nonsense all over again.
    Different teams working on different things!
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerinsma View Post
    I guess there aren't a whole lot of rogues reading this. I love my true sight, but it gets boring to have it find things without even looking. I want those points that I spent on search and spot to be relevant and add value to my character. This sounds good and doable. We'll see how it works. Please folks just because a change is not important to the characters you play doesn't mean it is a waste of time or unimportant to anyone. I've been longing for something like this. Thank you devs.

    Edited to add:
    Would also be happy with Enoach's method, if the detect secret doors spell was given a skill roll based on caster's level. Would also love to have take 20s to mix for skills.
    If you've been longing for something like this, all you had to do was toss out your true seeing item and watch your character wiggle for several seconds when you come to a door.

    I really don't see how you can think this less important to the people who wont possibly be able to make the search DCs than in is to you who can. What this means to me is not running certain content unless I happen to have a rogue/Atri/capable ranger with me. Because I log in to play, not hope I find the others I need with me to play.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Not saying that I wouldn't love to see fixes for the MM and other stuff, but ... the MM is free for VIP, and you can buy a secret door rod from store that reveal everything
    qft

    that's all that they are working on atm

    I think we should start a letter writing campaign to WB main office attn.ceo

    they are just trying to gouge people whenever they can

    end of story

    there needs to be some accountability for all the screw ups of the last two years

    if I could go back andplay the game in the "vast and mysterious" days before free to play I would....nuff said

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    I'm appalled at the level of doom this thread has generated. I think doing proactive stuff to improve skills, immersion, character diversity, etc. is an excellent use of dev time.

    Keep up the good work.
    Because it doesn't actually do anything to make the skills better, it doesn't improve immersion, it doesn't help character diversity, it just nerfs pretty much everyone to the point they'll either need to carry more junk around with them (level specific loot to find doors), or miss out on content.

    If they were going to make the skills more user friendly it would be a whole different matter and garner a lot less Doom.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    I like the change. Once something becomes automatic and irrelevant, it is boring and the reason to have it there in the first place (to present a challenge) is defeated. Secret doors are at that point of being automatic. Also, a game system should have tradeoffs, and the choice to dump skills is one of those tradeoffs. I support any efforts to make skills more useful.
    Detect secret doors/True seeing is not wholly automatic though, the doors only actually light up from my experience when you are actually looking directly at them.

    If they made the skills more user friendly, the white trail used for trap detection comes to mind for search, and reduced the size of the doors, search would then have it's advantages to finding Doors.

    Nerfing stuff is just bad design.
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  10. #90
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    If you want old players to stop zerging to look for secret doors make them random with interesting loot!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    Interesting, I just caught you apologising for Turbine again. Nothing that's WAI can be considered abuse, so you can't take that position. Nice try though, the way you've attempted to present and spin it. What are you getting for your efforts? What are they paying you and how much?
    Go back, re-read PF's post.

    In simple, easy to understand English, this has become an issue for content designers. It is not longer WAI for them and how they design or want to design content for us.

    It is clear you do not like it and everyone that does is now a paid shill for Turbine. Everyone that understand the need for it is the same.

    Sorry, no, I'm not sorry, that you 'easy button' was taken away from you. Adapt and overcome or take your toys and go home.

    Until then, please continue to exercise your right, it is very humorous!


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  12. #92
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    Epic characters can do hundreds or thousands of damage, they have magical gear so powerful that just dropping it on a normal person's foot would kill them. They can literally punch massive craters into solid stone. Finding a secret door is no more an appropriate challenge for them than level 1 kobolds are.

    Stop proving you have absolutely no grasp of how your own game works.

  13. #93
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    I get the idea. Rogue skills should be more useful, and simply taking a min level 1 item along shouldn't make one of the uses of the search skill obsolete from the get-go.
    OK, that sounds reasonable.

    But are you sure you've thought it through completely?

    This will be extremely annoying to many players, since we'll now have to have 5-10 different detectection items in our already overflowing inventory and bank slots.

    Why is it necessary to go about changing this mechanic that I've never heard anyone complain about?

    Is it to split the opposition to the more game breaking changes you're already doing?
    It's definitely an N-word.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    • The Divining Rod will be set to a higher caster level so that it’ll always succeed at detecting secret doors. We'll also keep its current duration where it is.
    Well... at least they're being honest about this cash grab.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Or we can revisit the spells to be handled as they are suppose to be by the original rules

    Detect Secret Doors -
    You can detect secret doors, compartments, caches, and so forth. Only passages, doors, or openings that have been specifically constructed to escape detection are detected by this spell.

    True Seeing -
    notices secret doors hidden by magic. True seeing does not help notice secret doors hidden by mundane means

    The point being that in PnP at higher levels the use of magical means to Hide Doors is used to get past Detect Secret Doors. I look at it as Detect Secret Doors helps with finding "Constructed" secrets through dungeon architecture while True Seeing is designed to Allow one to see doors hidden by magical means such as illusions.

    If I were asked to suggest a change I would offer this:

    1. Create two types of Secret Doors, Mundane (Architecture hidden) and Magically Hidden (Search DC base 25 plus level of Magic hiding door and can only be searched if the Class of Rogue/Artificer otherwise True Seeing is needed)

    2. Change the two spells to work: Detect Secret Doors for the Mundane and True Seeing for the Magical ones

    3. Change Elf (not half-elf) to do a Secret Door Search automatically when they pass by a secret door (but only once)

    This will allow doors for new content to utilize different types of Secret doors, making secrets a challenge.
    Great idea!!

  16. #96
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    What a daft idea this is.

    Way to render rogues even more obsolete devs.

    I can see the LFM panel now: "rogue wanted traps/secret doors bonus"

    Now in quests while the party gets the thing finished, the poor old rogue will be trailing behind, not only getting the traps, but now searching out the secret doors. Who on earth thinks that this makes the game more exciting and new player friendly for the rogue class???

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    blinks

    all the problems with the game.....

    all the rage over the enhancment pass

    all the rage over losing ed xp on trs....

    no raid in the expansion .....

    endgame killed to be just 2 raids .....

    but you put dev time on this ... can't think of a non bannable word for it.

    Seriously what is going thru your collective heads at turbine? There is no need for these changes, and honestly I don't see how they're going to make the majority of players game more enjoyable. You'll get a small percentage of people happy about it that like exploring every little corner their 20th time thru the quest, but most people will just find it a hinderance.
    Heh, it's like someone was leaving the building and flicking us the bird on the way out isn't it lol
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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JogadorVelho View Post
    If you want old players to stop zerging to look for secret doors make them random with interesting loot!
    Randomizing hidden doors is a great idea. It will keep people guessing for a while longer.
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Hello again! There’s another change that will be visible on this week’s Lamannia game build before we’re done with implementation: the wonderful world of secret doors. As part of our work to enhance Shadar-kai, Rogue, and other “sneaky business” in game, we have been evaluating the way secret doors behave in game content at high levels.

    Hidden doors and search skill become largely irrelevant at the higher levels of the game because the magic to reveal them is available at such low levels. Above level 5 to 8, you basically never end up using your spot or search skills to find hidden doors. Our quest makers place hidden doors in high level content, but if everyone can automatically see them, then those doors are not very “hidden”, in which case, what is the point of making them hidden at all?

    We’ve deliberated over this for a while and there were a couple ways we could approach it. We could try just not placing hidden doors anymore. It’s faster for us to place basic doors… but then it also means there’s just physically nothing “hidden” for you to find. That seemed bad. We could nerf the instant-find spells. That also seemed bad. So we were at kind of an impasse to meet our design goals. We’ve landed on a design that we think will reward players for character advancement, encourage designers to keep hiding those doors in newer high level content, and soften any radical changes to the quests players are used to.

    Here are the details of the design, and what state the design is in for Lamannia:

    • We will be updating the Detect Secret Doors spell so that it scales up as your character levels up. We are still working the full design out - such as what the casting formula is specifically and which skills will influence it - and you therefore may experience odd behavior on Lamannia with the spell since the mechanic has not yet been finalized and the spell isn’t acting as it should in this build.
    • True Seeing will now detect secret doors if you would have been able to find the door with a Spot & Search check of 30. We were going for a simple round number that's right around the Heroic/Epic line. True Seeing will continue to have all of its other effects, including negating Displacement, Blur and Invisibility.
    • Any existing equipment that has the Detect Secret Doors spell will be set to an adjusted caster-level appropriate for Heroic content. The durations are intended to be the same as what they currently are on live.
    • The Divining Rod will be set to a higher caster level so that it’ll always succeed at detecting secret doors. We'll also keep its current duration where it is.



    As always you’re welcome to provide feedback on these changes, but keep in mind that the version of the changes that you’ll be seeing on Lamannia are not ready to be taken for a test drive yet. We’re looking forward to getting the design up on a future build that you can play with, and we’ll let you know once that time comes!
    - PurpleFooz
    Considering all the broken things in game, it would seem better use of resources to fix them rather then make unnecessary changes such as this. Its not game breaking or such but some of the bugs are. Who sets priorities at turbine anyway?

  20. #100
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    Are sales of the Divining Rod really that low these days?

    This is only a new plot to gauge us into buying items from the shop no normal person should need to buy anyway.

    Turbine, scrap this idea immediately. Either use the "different doors" idea from this forum or else use the "getting a bonus on search" idea here, if you need to, but stop the nonsense of deliberately damaging really cool and working game mechanics by replacing them with ****!

    Poison immunities nerfed in order to sell more pots - result: Annoyed players.
    Disease immunities nerfed in order to sell more pots - result: Annoyed players.
    True Sight and Dedect Secret Door spell to be nerfed inorder to sell more Divining Rods - result: Annoyed players.

    There is an Annoying Threshold lurking somewhere out there, you know, @Turbine? Getting to much and crossing the annoying threashold results in loosing a (paying) customer.

    If at least the new system would somewhat resemble PnP D&D game mechanics - I could live with that. But blatantly and deliverately introducing given thresholds for creating an artificial demand for the Divining Rods? I just grow an instant hunchback and long teeth, my eyes grew stalks and my annoying level got another +10!

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