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Thread: Secret Doors!

  1. #41
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    So what the hell is going to happen to Cannith Crafted stuff like True Seeing and Detect Secret Doors since they are both not clickies they just work all the time? New players do not have these straight away and I still remember struggling in the Water Works to find the rares hidden behind secret doors because I could not search them since my skill level was to low.

    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    Most people just min/max str/con/dex and dump int, because skills were mostly pointless...
    Speak for yourself. I have at least a score of 12 on all my toons at creation due to wanting skill points, even my fighter started with that since I wanted Jump (10 full ranks), Intimidate, UMD and Haggle bearing in mind it took me months to get that since I started on a 28 point build, no tomes or anything. I even GR'd him once to convert him to a 32 point build and then LR'd him since I had gotten INT tomes. Skills are still useful right now so I see no need for this stupid change at all. Turbine concentrate on the ehancement pass and then expansion pack once you have done that fix the damn bugs in the game that have been here for years and stop messing with stuff that actually works!

    Stoner81.

  2. #42
    Community Member hunzi2010's Avatar
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    All I can say is a message to the developers, why can you nurf this and that and make the whole game experience more and more worse for current and new players.
    Yet..... and I quote...... you still cant fix the bug when I get off my ship, or the ladder bug???????
    Just remember mr development team, and I believe I speak for alot of people, the more and more you start changing all these the more and more people are not going to play the game.
    I am currently VIP, but I am currently keeping an open mind for a new mmorpg that isnt money hungry and making the game experience poor.
    Most people on here are older mature players, not little teenie bopper kids (No offence to other players).
    and alot of use played ddo on pnp, and now to try and enjoy this game is becoming more and more dificult.
    all I am saying is please be carful with what choices you make, I do spend money along with my membership, and its people like us that keep this game alive and makes your company money.
    so remember each action will have a reaction.
    cheers.

  3. #43
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I agree.
    Problem is DDO hasn't invested any time into creating different types of secret doors, those that are camouflaged vs those magically hidden. they are all vanilla secret doors.
    The only different one is in the Lord of Blades quest that actually requires a search regardless of True seeing or Secret door detection items.

    Problem I see is every quest needs to be revisted and adjusted.
    I don't have any confidence that the majority of these will be fixed correctly, and what resource will be put aside to correct these... hopefully not the same people looking after ladder lag or stuck spots.. The stuck spot I have reported every year for the last 4 years by the stairs to the inn is still there...
    I do get your fear and in part I share your point. However they always state in the past that the one that working on the content aren't necessarily the same guys that work on bug fixes. Actually however I don't know how the system is made up and as you said that most secret doors are vanilla systems they may actually not require someone to revisit the quest.

    In other words maybe they can just add the quest level as a part of the vanilla function that determine if a secret door is discovered. Something like:
    Previously: Discovered is true if TS item is active and player is close enough
    Now: Discovered is true if TS item is active, has same level +/- modifier as quest level and player is close enough

    Maybe they have to revisit quests and add a property to each secret door, but maybe that is then one of the first steps to create something that extend the current vanilla system and allow more different types. I can't say, but the general idea to make skills more useful across the board isn't necessarily a bad idea and it doesn't necessarily need to mean we are all get screwed up.

    I mean after all they where already successful to break things totally unrelated to a modification. So it doesn't matter what they change or work on as whatever they touch has a risk to play domino and apply a negative side effect on something else, so there is no need to be additionaly worried

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    So what the hell is going to happen to Cannith Crafted stuff like True Seeing and Detect Secret Doors since they are both not clickies they just work all the time? New players do not have these straight away and I still remember struggling in the Water Works to find the rares hidden behind secret doors because I could not search them since my skill level was to low.
    Dunno but maybe the minimum level of the item automatically determine the level range in which the item is 100% successful? Or as stated above a TS item will have an automatic triggered spot/search check of +30 which should discover most of the hidden doors anyway.

    The only thing they re-add regarding this is to shorten the search animation as the instant search and disable which we had for some days was really a relief!
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    While this change can be awesome as well i fear that it can be very bad as well. I just hope that all those items that gave auto detection true seeing will still serve some purpose. there are quests where the lever is hidden behind a door. i hope that people will not be screwed because of it either. They shouldnt NEED a class to complete something either even at epic levels. im ok with changing it to an extent as long as some of it can still be found.

    if not you're kinda killing it for some.
    Because every quest should be soloable by any class? Somehow, this doesn't seem very D&D. Why bother having a class that isn't needed, or rather, why encourage features that make a given class obsolete?

    But then again, maybe you are right. I should be able to put together an homogenous group of pure builds of any given class and complete any quest in the game. A pure cleric party, a pure paladin party, a pure rogue party, etc. Hey, a party of 12 pure barbs should clean up Shroud pretty good.
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  5. #45
    Community Member debo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Hello again! There’s another change that will be visible on this week’s Lamannia game build before we’re done with implementation: the wonderful world of secret doors. As part of our work to enhance Shadar-kai, Rogue, and other “sneaky business” in game, we have been evaluating the way secret doors behave in game content at high levels.

    Hidden doors and search skill become largely irrelevant at the higher levels of the game because the magic to reveal them is available at such low levels. Above level 5 to 8, you basically never end up using your spot or search skills to find hidden doors. Our quest makers place hidden doors in high level content, but if everyone can automatically see them, then those doors are not very “hidden”, in which case, what is the point of making them hidden at all?

    We’ve deliberated over this for a while and there were a couple ways we could approach it. We could try just not placing hidden doors anymore. It’s faster for us to place basic doors… but then it also means there’s just physically nothing “hidden” for you to find. That seemed bad. We could nerf the instant-find spells. That also seemed bad. So we were at kind of an impasse to meet our design goals. We’ve landed on a design that we think will reward players for character advancement, encourage designers to keep hiding those doors in newer high level content, and soften any radical changes to the quests players are used to.

    Here are the details of the design, and what state the design is in for Lamannia:

    • We will be updating the Detect Secret Doors spell so that it scales up as your character levels up. We are still working the full design out - such as what the casting formula is specifically and which skills will influence it - and you therefore may experience odd behavior on Lamannia with the spell since the mechanic has not yet been finalized and the spell isn’t acting as it should in this build.
    • True Seeing will now detect secret doors if you would have been able to find the door with a Spot & Search check of 30. We were going for a simple round number that's right around the Heroic/Epic line. True Seeing will continue to have all of its other effects, including negating Displacement, Blur and Invisibility.
    • Any existing equipment that has the Detect Secret Doors spell will be set to an adjusted caster-level appropriate for Heroic content. The durations are intended to be the same as what they currently are on live.
    • The Divining Rod will be set to a higher caster level so that it’ll always succeed at detecting secret doors. We'll also keep its current duration where it is.



    As always you’re welcome to provide feedback on these changes, but keep in mind that the version of the changes that you’ll be seeing on Lamannia are not ready to be taken for a test drive yet. We’re looking forward to getting the design up on a future build that you can play with, and we’ll let you know once that time comes!
    - PurpleFooz
    While I understand from a monetary standpoint why ever changing and expanding stuff is good. But why not FIRST put those resources into fixing/changing something that actually needs more immediate changing.

    Lag
    Ladders
    Endgame Quests
    A new Raid
    better xp in most quests
    finishing ED's
    Memory Leaks for wilderness area's
    Sliding mobs when held, still not fixed after a few tries including last update
    Or even just glance at the known issue list and see alot of problems that have been there and stagnant for years.


    Now if this "change" would actually do as advertised I might say "good job, nice change". But with nearly all your advertised changes nothing seems to go right and it takes EVEN MORE TIME to actually fix the screwups then it takes for you all to create them.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    I guess the cure is to ensure quests have a balanced approach to the skills.

    50 quests with secret door optional treasure
    50 quests with locked chest optional treasure
    50 quests with concentration skill optional treasure
    50 quests with jump optional treasure
    50 quests with intimidate optional treasure
    50 quests with listen optional treasure
    etc

    The "rogue skills" need to be useful... But so do the other skills.

    If we do have a quest (non-chain) that has a 'class check' that is fine. But we need them even, and of equal value. Yeah, i can't do quest X, okay, but 'they' can't do quest 'y'.
    This makes sense, but it doesn't need to be so rigid. Mix it up some. There is the optional in The Butcher's Path that needs Search, Int, and Str to get the chest.
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  7. #47
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    EDIT: Double post
    Last edited by Tscheuss; 06-28-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Hey, a party of 12 pure barbs should clean up Shroud pretty good.
    There was a thread where this was done in the old forums pre u14. They all had sf pots I believe.

  9. #49
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    I'm appalled at the level of doom this thread has generated. I think doing proactive stuff to improve skills, immersion, character diversity, etc. is an excellent use of dev time.

    Keep up the good work.

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    Default Feather fall

    All the fans of this think for a second. Will it stop there? nope! disease immunity gone. poison immunity gone, why not feather fall then? same mechanic why not? 30 resist shrine gone! why not deathblock gone! why not? Wail is gone nobody cares. Induction bar that makes the game more enjoyable for a rogue? gone! keep encouraging the devs and your +4 tomes that you bought in store will not work anymore.

    Edit: magic missile shield is to powerful update 18.25001 rev 001 nightshield will no longer work because of the overpowering of PVP
    Last edited by frosty0647; 06-28-2013 at 04:49 PM.

  11. #51
    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    I like the change. Once something becomes automatic and irrelevant, it is boring and the reason to have it there in the first place (to present a challenge) is defeated. Secret doors are at that point of being automatic. Also, a game system should have tradeoffs, and the choice to dump skills is one of those tradeoffs. I support any efforts to make skills more useful.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    I'm appalled at the level of doom this thread has generated. I think doing proactive stuff to improve skills, immersion, character diversity, etc. is an excellent use of dev time.

    Keep up the good work.
    That's the spirit. Keep thinking happy thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by frosty0647 View Post
    All the fans of this think for a second. Will it stop there? nope! disease immunity gone. poison immunity gone, why not feather fall then? same mechanic why not? 30 resist shrine gone! why not deathblock gone! why not? Wail is gone nobody cares. Induction bar that makes the game more enjoyable for a rogue? gone! keep encouraging the devs and your +4 tomes that you bought in store will not work anymore.
    Uh-oh, D00M Strikes Back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    I like the change. Once something becomes automatic and irrelevant, it is boring and the reason to have it there in the first place (to present a challenge) is defeated. Secret doors are at that point of being automatic. Also, a game system should have tradeoffs, and the choice to dump skills is one of those tradeoffs. I support any efforts to make skills more useful.
    Nice, positive point.
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  13. #53
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    I like the change. Once something becomes automatic and irrelevant, it is boring and the reason to have it there in the first place (to present a challenge) is defeated. Secret doors are at that point of being automatic. Also, a game system should have tradeoffs, and the choice to dump skills is one of those tradeoffs. I support any efforts to make skills more useful.
    Dude that's like saying ghost touch is op and should be removed. It wasn't broken that prepared geared individuals could find secret doors.

  14. #54
    Community Member debo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Dude that's like saying ghost touch is op and should be removed. It wasn't broken that prepared geared individuals could find secret doors.

    If turbine didn't want secret door detection to be possible they shouldn't have allowed it ingame in the first place. Better yet, they should not have made it possible to craft secret door detection goggles at lvl 1.


    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    I'm appalled at the level of doom this thread has generated. I think doing proactive stuff to improve skills, immersion, character diversity, etc. is an excellent use of dev time.
    I believe all the doom in this thread can be summed up because of a few things. All the time it takes the dev's to change useless trivial things like this, can be used to actually fix more legitimate things. Dev's "changed" wail few updates ago. It HAS NOT worked right since. Dev's changed the way mobs interact with certain spells many updates ago. Now mobs when held slide around. This last example has been fixed multiple times and still no fix. Why not use the resources for changing secret doors into changing/fixing stuff that actually effects us as players.
    How much more of our time and the dev's time need to be put into changing something that is going to take more time next updates to fix because they broke something while changing it.
    Last edited by debo; 06-28-2013 at 05:05 PM.

  15. #55
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    I say go ahead. I like the idea of mixing it up a bit. I would suggest considering adding some kind of other hidden door types. Hidden portals maybe? Kinda like the one in the stormreavers fresco quest in the marketplace. Or astral doors. Or something other than just "doors" I just like the idea they are revisiting this, which apparently most people here don't.

  16. #56
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    ugh. so much hate over secret doors. how does a change to detecting secret doors using skill and spell turn into losing feather fall and disease immunity? if this was about losing poison immunity, I could see it. its not like we don't know where all the secret doors are already and bring clickies

  17. #57
    Community Member anatomyofaghost's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I think this is a neat idea and can add necessity back to high search/spot characters but... with the astounding amount of bugs and broken features already in game, why is it a priority to reinvent a system that isn't broken?

    I predict whatever new system that appears here will be previewed and found broken on lamma, inevitably make it to live the same way and be categorically borked for 4 months with some kind of obvious store-bought exploit, then patched to half work in 8 while breaking three other seemingly unrelated things and will be left 80% functional after that point after being abandoned to adjust something else that didn't need to be addressed.

  18. #58
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    ugh. so much hate over secret doors. how does a change to detecting secret doors using skill and spell turn into losing feather fall and disease immunity? if this was about losing poison immunity, I could see it. its not like we don't know where all the secret doors are already and bring clickies
    Exactly and now the clickies will be wasted bag space.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    If turbine didn't want secret door detection to be possible they shouldn't have allowed it ingame in the first place. Better yet, they should not have made it possible to craft secret door detection goggles at lvl 1.




    I believe all the doom in this thread can be summed up because of a few things. All the time it takes the dev's to change useless trivial things like this, can be used to actually fix more legitimate things. Dev's "changed" wail few updates ago. It HAS NOT worked right since. Dev's changed the way mobs interact with certain spells many updates ago. Now mobs when held slide around. This last example has been fixed multiple times and still no fix. Why not use the resources for changing secret doors into changing/fixing stuff that actually effects us as players.
    How much more of our time and the dev's time need to be put into changing something that is going to take more time next updates to fix because they broke something while changing it.
    In all fairness, I can see your point in this way. I would love for the devs to finish and debug the existing stuff before fiddling around with things that work well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    If turbine didn't want secret door detection to be possible they shouldn't have allowed it ingame in the first place. Better yet, they should not have made it possible to craft secret door detection goggles at lvl 1.

    I believe all the doom in this thread can be summed up because of a few things. All the time it takes the dev's to change useless trivial things like this, can be used to actually fix more legitimate things. Dev's "changed" wail few updates ago. It HAS NOT worked right since. Dev's changed the way mobs interact with certain spells many updates ago. Now mobs when held slide around. This last example has been fixed multiple times and still no fix. Why not use the resources for changing secret doors into changing/fixing stuff that actually effects us as players.
    How much more of our time and the dev's time need to be put into changing something that is going to take more time next updates to fix because they broke something while changing it.
    I agree pretty much with this.

    If it was such a big problem that needed changing, why was Secret Door Shards added to Cannith Crafting, since the Devs have made several other things unavailable.

    And what I see in the "doomspeak" is that Devs are wasting time changing basic mechanics of the game for very little reason while ignoring real bugs that should have been fixed long ago.

    I'll point to the Monster Manual as my example of the Devs ignoring bugs that should be easy to fix. There are several mobs that are still not added to the Monster Manuals that should have been, and I'm not even counting the respawning mobs that might have a behind-the-scenes mechanic problem (mephits, necro4 mobs). Also, the Devs are pretty lazy about not including new mobs to the Monster Manual when new quests are added, as we saw not a single mobs worked in the Monster Manual from the last update including the basic Wolf. (As an aside, there were no additional new mobs for the missing hunters of Elf, Halfling, Zombie or Mephit, even though Mephits were featured in the last update.) Then there is the suppose fix to Monster Manuals back in Update 15.2 that "Tomes of Learning and XP potions now increase experience gained from Deeds" that has never worked. And just to keep this in prospective for the coin-counters and decision-makers at Turbine, the Monster Manual is an item that needs to be purchased, so these things should be a priority over the Secret Door which can be revealed by none DDOStore means.

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