I definately think you are on the right track. As we become more powerful, so do the monsters we fight. In current content we are fighting gods for heavens sake! Surely they must have a better means of hiding their stuff than an ORC in STK does. Maybe not change the current method though, but add new "Warded" doors/chests that require a very high DC to get too. I like the idea, just re-think it. What you are suggesting doesn't say Nerf, but it is
Formerly known as Battlehawke until 5/9/2013 when a great storm came through (several weeks after the forum changes btw) and "Poof" Everything went away. ......Thanks Turbine....
Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
Glitzakram - Trade Thread
I guess there aren't a whole lot of rogues reading this. I love my true sight, but it gets boring to have it find things without even looking. I want those points that I spent on search and spot to be relevant and add value to my character. This sounds good and doable. We'll see how it works. Please folks just because a change is not important to the characters you play doesn't mean it is a waste of time or unimportant to anyone. I've been longing for something like this. Thank you devs.
Edited to add:
Would also be happy with Enoach's method, if the detect secret doors spell was given a skill roll based on caster's level. Would also love to have take 20s to mix for skills.
Last edited by Aerinsma; 06-28-2013 at 01:27 PM.
First of all, I'll echo some of the other posters by saying that I understand the reasoning behind the change, but the timing is just awful. You have quite a few systems changes incoming and I'm certain that more than one will be very buggy. Combining them I suppose maximizes the odds of having at least one bug free system in place.
With that out of the way, I do like the change in theory. It breathes new life into the search skill and makes it reasonable to put points into it even if you aren't a trapper. With the upcoming spellcraft/heal/repair/etc. changes, it's not like players have a lot of wiggle room. Making more skills viable definitely puts some emphasis on intel at character creation. The days of 18str/18con melee and 18cha/18con sorcs are probably soon to be gone. Wizards make out like bandits.
For a bit of constructive thought, I like the way knock currently scales. The DC of the lock isn't necessarily tied into the level of the quest. There are quite a few high level locks that are able to be scroll knocked open, even in the end game. I would like to see detect secret doors work in a similar way where in general the DC scales upward, but there are some more mundane secret doors that a clickie or true seeing will spot even in the highest content.
+1 for flavor
-1 for timing
+1 for communication
+1 revitalizing underused skills
Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen
That's why people are unhappy with this. Not because they want to deny you the right to sniff flowers on your rogue.
23 ranks in search
5 epic skills
14 int base plus a 8 int item
20 search item
If you don't have that there will be a prompt for the ddo store when you fail the search. Believing anything else at this point is naive.
Also, does the spell stack with the actual skill? Or does someone with a skill of 30 get nothing from the spell?
I do undertand that you guys wish to change the true seeing thing, since the P&P spell description states that "True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means", but changing the detect secret doors spell is just wrong.
It can be noted, however, that some doors can be hidden by both magic and by mundane means. That is the best D&D secret door thing I can think of without having to break the game mechanics. If the point is to block certain paths to a group without a skilled observer, just make the detect secret doors spells from clickies to last only 1 min again.
Now if the point is to make Spot and Search useful, I think the proper way to do it is putting more quest optionals depending on it (finding objects in a room and such) and enemies with annoying traits like the Hiding in Plain Sight ability.
Edit: It also can be noted that the Detect Secret Door Spell should work as a visual cone and it should require a spot time of ~6 seconds (one round) to actually detect anything, but right now it is an aura centered around the character that instantly detects everything around. Perhaps some work on these mechanics could actually help dungeon designing.
Last edited by bbcjoke; 06-28-2013 at 02:17 PM.
Also I don't know if I'll laugh or cry when this breaks like spwr broke trap and mob damage and new players can't leave the grotto because they don't have enough search.
I think it's great you're trying to make skills more useful in more situations. (Stealth, search, traps, etc.)
Many skills have been revamped over the course of the game, and I like 100% of the effort put behind making skills functional.
I think the largest worry is that secret doors turns into another elite traps character check.
These types of bars all have the same issue IMHO. Bring the right class, or don't complete the quest.
The traps hitting for 300+ on level 8 quests was a BAD choice. Similarly if secret doors require a 60dc at level 8 it's a bad choice. Just as if sneaking now enables a rouge to remain stealth 100% of the time, with 0% detection.
"everyone in this game has to fight, get killed, dodge, and get annihilated in combat, and by traps, and get lost and can't progress because secret doors... However if you're an assassin, you no longer have to fight, you can disable all traps, find all secrets, open all locks, and only have to find the end encounter. Congrats rogues, you're the only class that can get "FULL" dungeon XP, by just navigating the map."
I LOVE the idea of making skills useful. I just fear the skill "buff" is only buffing skills 2 classes have the points to get. Most people just min/max str/con/dex and dump int, because skills were mostly pointless... Int casters, assassins, and artis were the exception. They have LOTS of skill points.
I guess I'll hold judgement till I see the outcomes... but you get the idea.
I assume we all get a lesser reincarnation so we can now re-tool?
While this change can be awesome as well i fear that it can be very bad as well. I just hope that all those items that gave auto detection true seeing will still serve some purpose. there are quests where the lever is hidden behind a door. i hope that people will not be screwed because of it either. They shouldnt NEED a class to complete something either even at epic levels. im ok with changing it to an extent as long as some of it can still be found.
if not you're kinda killing it for some.
Where it will change is that you may actually need now a level appropriate item at hand if you are not a Rogue. In other words a "find hidden door"-clicky on a level 4 item will maybe still work till level 6, but reveal nothing in a level 18 quest as its caster level is too low.
* We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
* Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here
I guess the cure is to ensure quests have a balanced approach to the skills.
50 quests with secret door optional treasure
50 quests with locked chest optional treasure
50 quests with concentration skill optional treasure
50 quests with jump optional treasure
50 quests with intimidate optional treasure
50 quests with listen optional treasure
The "rogue skills" need to be useful... But so do the other skills.
If we do have a quest (non-chain) that has a 'class check' that is fine. But we need them even, and of equal value. Yeah, i can't do quest X, okay, but 'they' can't do quest 'y'.
Last edited by 350zguy; 06-28-2013 at 03:09 PM.
Now see, the last two Lamania releases, about TR XP being normalized as well as the 'quest ransack' system and stealth being addressed as part of an AI Awareness revamp were so good. I knew the streak couldn't last.
I really have no clue why you would want to seal so much content away, out of the reach of players. Is it just because content designers were angry that their 'hidden' doors were discoverable by anyone, rather than only those who have taken/splashed a specific class?
Last edited by ForumAccess; 06-28-2013 at 03:33 PM.
Je ne suis pas
DDO Alpha Tester
Problem is DDO hasn't invested any time into creating different types of secret doors, those that are camouflaged vs those magically hidden. they are all vanilla secret doors.
The only different one is in the Lord of Blades quest that actually requires a search regardless of True seeing or Secret door detection items.
Problem I see is every quest needs to be revisted and adjusted.
I don't have any confidence that the majority of these will be fixed correctly, and what resource will be put aside to correct these... hopefully not the same people looking after ladder lag or stuck spots.. The stuck spot I have reported every year for the last 4 years by the stairs to the inn is still there.
I am left with the preception that DDO resources spread so thin that very little active resources are being put into fixing current things that dont work while things that do work are being arbitrarially roller brush changed like a bull in a china shop with no one to clean up or finish what was left behind.
I would really hope that revisted quests would have a long path for the cant find a scret door so we have to take a longer path for the optional... or hah found the secret door now we can take the shortcut to the optional... But what DDO person has time to fix all of these let alone fix them right...
Last edited by JOTMON; 06-28-2013 at 04:04 PM.
Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 12/12), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-EC 32/36), Whatthetruck(Raid farmer-2nd life).. and many many more alts..
Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
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