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Thread: Secret Doors!

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    For this secret door work to have a point they actualy need to put things BEHIND them that are worth anyones time. And this loot and the exact locations of doors need to be randomized somethings or people will just farm the ones that are good over and over dual boxing their "door finder/bank mule/hagglebot" and ignore the rest.

    Making changes to detecting secret doors when
    A) no one cares about finding them because theres nothing good there
    B) everyone knows where they are located anyway
    C) most anyone can multi box an iconic "door finder toon"

    Is just a waste of time, I have to agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I am astonished that with all the issues with this game you actually bothered spending time on something this trivial.

    This is the poison immunity nonsense all over again.
    Agreed.


    Making secret door detection more of a part of the game doesn't change the fact that the ED system, potential level cap-raise, TRing, etc. needs a solid look. "Oh wow, Secret Doors are different" isn't likely to get me playing more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    The primary reason this set of changes was initiated was to allow our content design team to do more with secret door puzzles and encounters in future dungeons. As ProducerRowan already posted, we're making a version of the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar for DDO. That dungeon has a huge number of secret doors!

    We hope that once everyone gets hands-on with these changes, you'll like them more. Although we are nerfing these spells to find secret doors, we are trying to make them as useful as possible given the circumstances. And there's no question that this allows us to give you better secret door gameplay in the future.
    this is why the sudden change to secret doors. they decided to make it more challenging for us in future content. it wasn't Purple sitting around one day and thought Detect Secret Doors was too OP and just on a whim decided to change the DCs. in order for it to work in new content that they dreamed up, they had to change it across the board, which ironically coincides with all the talk about making skills more useful.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Well, I think I would have to agree with him.

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    So spend time on a system that only the developers have a problem with (secret doors) or spend time on the "list of lists." Yes, you can tell him to breath, Tscheuss, or we (as players) can ask Turbine to fix the stuff that is actually broken. Geez, I guess we know now what is more important.
    Were I working on fixes for this game, I would give The List its own sticky, locked thread. When I choose a bug to fix, I note in the thread the date I start working on it. When it is fixed, tested, and ready for patch/update, I note that in thread with date. I would proceed through The List in this fashion, though not necessarily in the order it is written.

    The tough part may be co-ordinating changes. This game has a LOT of code, and multiple people working on different parts at the same time
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  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    this is why the sudden change to secret doors. they decided to make it more challenging for us in future content. it wasn't Purple sitting around one day and thought Detect Secret Doors was too OP and just on a whim decided to change the DCs. in order for it to work in new content that they dreamed up, they had to change it across the board, which ironically coincides with all the talk about making skills more useful.
    It's also "fix" a problem that isn't broken. It was unnecessary busy work to a working system that could break stuff across all levels of the game because someone was too lazy to use neglected systems and game mechanics already established in game.

    As I mentioned before, they had other options and could mix and match them:

    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Switches hidden behind breakables, like in Information is Key.

    Levers hidden behind breakables that opens undetectable hidden doors that has another lever to open another undetectable secret door, like in Durk's Got a Secret.

    Switches behind tapestries, like in Dirty Laundry.

    Undetectable hidden doors that open when a puzzle is solved, like in Repossession.

    Stat runes that open doors, like Tear of Dhakaan.

    Trapped filled hallways/rooms that contain a lever that opens undetectable secret doors, like Tears of Dhakaan.

    Switches that can be in multiple places, like in DQ1.
    These are all neglected mechanics for several years now that the Devs could use instead of redoing the whole system. I could extend the list even longer if necessary. And of course, with the above list, the Devs can mix and match.

    Or even get more creative with hiding the secrets doors with mechanisms currently in the game:

    * Secret doors behind false breakable/timed walls, like in Prey on the Hunter. (Never been able to tell if those walls are timed to break or not.)

    * Hidden doors that can only be opened by disabling a trap box. (Hey, looky, I came up with something completely new in the game that meshed two game mechanics together! Can I submit a resume as a game designer because I'm sure the code monkeys would perfer coding this than a whole system re-write.)

    * Killing a powerful caster that causes the illusion of no door to disappear. (Yeah, I know I'm sick of the kill something before you can advance also, but this is more interesting and makes more sense than kill everything before advancing found in Druid's Deep.)

    * Levers that can be used but appear to have no purpose when pulling them since they open secret doors in another portion of the quest. (Kind of similar to Genesis Point, but different.)

    * Bring back the mechanic for water balloons from Tomb of the Blighted and players have to throw them on the walls to uncover a secret door. (Make a limited number of the water balloons for the quest with this type of optional secret door and make the door randomly appear in a couple more spots than the number of balloons.)

    * Add more variety of Mimics to the game, in the shape of Doors. (A hallway full of door-shaped mimics with only one real door. Players could ignore the hallway, thus missing out on whatever is behind it. If they want to try their luck at the door, each time they open the wrong door, a mimic is activated and attacks them.)

    ...And I could continue with more stuff. Everything I mentioned above could be used in the game without creating anything new, except for the Door-skinned Mimics. The DSD and TS changes were unnecessary.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    * Secret doors behind false breakable/timed walls, like in Prey on the Hunter. (Never been able to tell if those walls are timed to break or not.)
    Giants have to break ice walls.
    * Add more variety of Mimics to the game, in the shape of Doors. (A hallway full of door-shaped mimics with only one real door. Players could ignore the hallway, thus missing out on whatever is behind it. If they want to try their luck at the door, each time they open the wrong door, a mimic is activated and attacks them.)
    All mimics display CR and HP bar when selected. And it probably can't be fixed in UI, so it won't work (but still, idea is not bad).

    But this whole DSD nerf BS is dumb and pointless, there are already door in LoB which can be found only with spot and search. Instead of nerfing heroic levels, just copy/paste the code to new content.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Giants have to break ice walls.
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    All mimics display CR and HP bar when selected. And it probably can't be fixed in UI, so it won't work (but still, idea is not bad).
    Blah. Forgot about that. But I'm sure that the Devs could fix it by making it a "two-tiered" mob. First, it's an animate object that the player must activate, like the shrines in Lord of Dust. Once activated, they transform into the Mimics, similar to all the "two-tier" mobs that don't register in the Monster Manual, like Mephits, Crooktooth, the Necro4 slayer mobs and the zombies in Kings Forest.

    Or just make the Mimic activate when examined. A bit of a cheap out, but still it'll be something new...
    Last edited by oradafu; 08-10-2013 at 10:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Giants have to break ice walls.


    All mimics display CR and HP bar when selected. And it probably can't be fixed in UI, so it won't work (but still, idea is not bad).

    But this whole DSD nerf BS is dumb and pointless, there are already door in LoB which can be found only with spot and search. Instead of nerfing heroic levels, just copy/paste the code to new content.
    Maybe have mimic be the room behind the door, and keep it dormant until door is opened. Dormant like rockpile that is really earth ele.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    For this secret door work to have a point they actualy need to put things BEHIND them that are worth anyones time. And this loot and the exact locations of doors need to be randomized somethings or people will just farm the ones that are good over and over dual boxing their "door finder/bank mule/hagglebot" and ignore the rest.

    Making changes to detecting secret doors when
    A) no one cares about finding them because theres nothing good there
    B) everyone knows where they are located anyway
    C) most anyone can multi box an iconic "door finder toon"

    Is just a waste of time, I have to agree.
    They put anything behind those doors that are 'worth anyone's time' we end up right back here again with people raging that they have to have skill investment or *gasp* group with someone else to get that thing that is suddenly worth your time.

    Zergers and min/maxers don't waste time with secret doors now and they won't after this change. Adventuring parties will and still will search out those doors after this change. They will have a more immersive experience. So why don't we let them have that experience since it will not change gameplay for those that just run by secret doors now and still will after the change.

    The heart of this change is to give content designers more design power with secret doors. Everyone wants more and better designed content. And I, for one, look forward to what they are going to do for us with Haunted Halls.

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  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Zergers and min/maxers don't waste time with secret doors now and they won't after this change. Adventuring parties will and still will search out those doors after this change. They will have a more immersive experience. So why don't we let them have that experience since it will not change gameplay for those that just run by secret doors now and still will after the change.
    And then there are those of us outside those two categories you so blithely shovel everyone into. It affects me, my guildies, and those of other guilds I regularly play with.

    If you want to, there's noone stopping you from searching for those doors with search skill now. Please don't force it on the rest of us.
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  11. #431
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    I am sure the devs will include higher level DSD clickies. No need to get your knickers in a twist, really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I am sure the devs will include higher level DSD clickies. No need to get your knickers in a twist, really.
    So first we have to actually get these, and then find room in our TR cache for 27 more clickies, since I'm sure they'll all be btc like most of the new gear?

    If they'll be so easy to get as you imply, there'll be no point in the change - we'll be back to where we started (though minus 20+ bank slots). So I doubt they'll be that easy to get.
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    I certainly will miss the easy bonus xp. for secret doors now. I am sure I can live with that but it seems like a notable amount of exp. I will be missing, when I do not want to wait for the induction bar. Especially on Sorrowdusk. This is a little annoying and will not make those old quests more interesting. The doors are known! For those quests it is another obstacle along the way to max. lvl. and xp. grind.

    It may force me to run quests I never touched before. Not sure if I will like that. For sure all new folks will find it interesting but vet.s....

    Interesting things like totally random trap locations made it way more fun. But no, let us work on one of the most irrelevant features in this game and leave everyday bugs as they are. People are used to them and everybody knows that it is bad ton take away something, to which you are used to... oh wait....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    So first we have to actually get these, and then find room in our TR cache for 27 more clickies, since I'm sure they'll all be btc like most of the new gear?

    If they'll be so easy to get as you imply, there'll be no point in the change - we'll be back to where we started (though minus 20+ bank slots). So I doubt they'll be that easy to get.
    I can see your point about inventory space. I would <3 to have a single +1-6 stat item that automatically incremented its bonus according to toon level, but I am stuck with +2, +4, and +6 versions to swap out as I level.

    Maybe, someday, the item designers will rewrite buff items that have a maximum buff level based on where it drops, but no minimum level, because its buff increments toward its maximum in the manner of stat tomes.

    ETA: Maybe this would be a good idea for endgame grind items for TR's. A named buff item you get at level cap that will incrementally provide more benefit as you level up in your next life.
    Last edited by Tscheuss; 08-11-2013 at 06:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    rewrite buff items with no minimum level, and the buff increments toward its maximum in the manner of stat tomes.

    a good idea: A buff item you get that will incrementally provide more benefit as you level up.
    edited

    This is an AWESOME suggestion. /presigned add this as a suggestion pls
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    Oh i can see the permanent Rogue hireling in the store already. Well played turbine.

    Seriously though don't like the change, makes solo playing unnecessarily more tedious.
    I have no interest in grouping, this change certainly won't make a difference in that.

    How many mandatory secret door quests are there in the game at the moment ? Anyone know the number ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    I certainly will miss the easy bonus xp. for secret doors now. I am sure I can live with that but it seems like a notable amount of exp. I will be missing, when I do not want to wait for the induction bar. Especially on Sorrowdusk. This is a little annoying and will not make those old quests more interesting. The doors are known! For those quests it is another obstacle along the way to max. lvl. and xp. grind.

    It may force me to run quests I never touched before. Not sure if I will like that. For sure all new folks will find it interesting but vet.s....

    Interesting things like totally random trap locations made it way more fun. But no, let us work on one of the most irrelevant features in this game and leave everyday bugs as they are. People are used to them and everybody knows that it is bad ton take away something, to which you are used to... oh wait....
    im surprised more haven't spoken up about the easy xp from secret doors. whenever there are threads on -10% xp from dying, theres always people who speak up and say "that's like losing X xp per life.. rant, rant, rant rant".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    Oh i can see the permanent Rogue hireling in the store already. Well played turbine.

    Seriously though don't like the change, makes solo playing unnecessarily more tedious.
    I have no interest in grouping, this change certainly won't make a difference in that.

    How many mandatory secret door quests are there in the game at the moment ? Anyone know the number ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I can see your point about inventory space. I would <3 to have a single +1-6 stat item that automatically incremented its bonus according to toon level, but I am stuck with +2, +4, and +6 versions to swap out as I level.

    Maybe, someday, the item designers will rewrite buff items that have a maximum buff level based on where it drops, but no minimum level, because its buff increments toward its maximum in the manner of stat tomes.

    ETA: Maybe this would be a good idea for endgame grind items for TR's. A named buff item you get at level cap that will incrementally provide more benefit as you level up in your next life.
    Nice try with the strawman. But they're taking inventory spaces we already have, I'm not asking for anything we didn't have before.

    And stat items have combat uses, whereas DSD items have no influence on combat or the general difficulty of questing.

    The items you're suggesting are called heirloom in WOW. Very nice items for new toons. They even give bonus xp, it's all win.

    EDIT: On Lama right now there is only one craftable DSD item.
    Last edited by Dandonk; 08-12-2013 at 01:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Nice try with the strawman. But they're taking inventory spaces we already have, I'm not asking for anything we didn't have before.

    And stat items have combat uses, whereas DSD items have no influence on combat or the general difficulty of questing.

    The items you're suggesting are called heirloom in WOW. Very nice items for new toons. They even give bonus xp, it's all win.

    EDIT: On Lama right now there is only one craftable DSD item.
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