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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default *** Dodge Changes ****

    Changes to existing items: Below are some notable changes that are retroactive:

    Dodge bonuses:
    Dodge bonuses have been doubled in value.
    Items that had +1% dodge now have +2% dodge.
    Items that had +2% dodge now have +4% dodge.
    Items that had +3% dodge now have +6% dodge.
    Items that had +4% dodge now have +8% dodge.
    Dodge bonuses of different numerical values no longer stack.

    Not sure if I like this or hate this yet. Sell me on this please.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-6-27-2013%29

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Now we can get a . . .

    4+3+2+1 = 10% from items. "Soon" we can get 8% from items (10% from new items).

    2% dodge one way or the other really doesn't matter . . . and it frees up some gear slots so that's nice.


    Not . . . sure . . . if nerfed . . .
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 06-27-2013 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I saw this and have to admit that my first thought was wow this frees up some gear spots, and possibly opens up for "Re-augmenting" some items that I have with Dodge.

    Currently I don't have access to a +4% Dodge Item so for me my +3% + 2% + 1% (Three items) means I only need the one that was 3% as it will be 6% dodge or a wash.

    I can see those that had all 4 might have an issue, just not sure how easy it is to have all 4 in ones gear set, again because I don't have a 4% dodge item.

    I'm on the fence but actually leaning towards this being a positive change - but that might be bias as it is a wash in amount and I get two gear slots back, so it is net positive for myself.

  4. #4
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I'm on the fence but actually leaning towards this being a positive change - but that might be bias as it is a wash in amount and I get two gear slots back, so it is net positive for myself.
    At the most you lose 2% dodge . . . if you devote 3-4 friggin slots to dodge.

    Thinking a positive.

  5. #5
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    This change and the way they word it has me wondering how its going to affect the Dodge/Mobility/Spring attack line and if the 'non stacking' will also apply to feats and the revised bonus on haste for 1% dodge.

  6. #6
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Hmm...I think this is a balanced change, if not a positive one, at least in terms of the items on their own.

    But I also wonder about feats and enhancements - any impact on them?

  7. #7
    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Now we can get a . . .

    4+3+2+1 = 10% from items. "Soon" we can get 8% from items (10% from new items).

    2% dodge one way or the other really doesn't matter . . . and it frees up some gear slots so that's nice.


    Not . . . sure . . . if nerfed . . .
    Not a nerf, I'd say. You'll be able to get to 10% with a single item. From the release notes:
    •Notable new effects to find include Improved Vorpal, Energy Absorption, and Doubleshot, +10% Dodge, among many others.

  8. #8
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Hmm...I think this is a balanced change, if not a positive one, at least in terms of the items on their own.

    But I also wonder about feats and enhancements - any impact on them?

    That's what I'm wondering. With so many different ways to get dodge outside of items (automatic feats, chosen feats, epic destinies, enhancements) we need to know if things still stack.

  9. #9
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    The good:

    doubling the dodge value is good. its also balanced because it is capped by your max dex bonus, so you can't just go crazy too easy.

    The bad:

    We lose some max bonus compared to what we have now. (I don't think the mythical 10% item we might find some day counts as covering this yet.)

    the ugly:

    It removes options. Its great for someone with a low mdb who doesn't really want to invest as it makes it easier for them to more dodge and be more survivable, but it removes the option to deeply invest in dodge... you can no longer "specialize" here if you want. You are creating a situation were a 8% dodge item become the only item that matters and is a pseudo-requirement.

    Allow them to stack. Even if someone wants to wear all of them... 10 + 8 + 6 + 4 + 2 = 30. overpowered? No.
    1. its capped at 25... so you have OPTIONS to pick which ones to use together to get your dodge from.
    2. you have to a mdb of 25. Anyone who has that is sacrificing PRR for dodge.... its a tradeoff and an option. The proposed system rewards players with lower mdb and those who don't want to invest. Those who are unwilling to choose and just want the max value of everything.

    Please allow the stacking (even if you have to remove the double effect) and keep character and gear planning complicated enough that we have to think about it and make actual choices.

    Thanks for your time.
    /sigh

  10. #10
    The Hatchery Tevain's Avatar
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    With 10% now being possible on randon gen loot will at least some items, for example ES-Challenge Cloaks or the Idol of Fortune, bumped a Tier so that those high level named items will not be outshone by random gen ?
    Desnol / Qerasuul / Lornkhal / Khazdar - Soko Irrlicht, Orien

  11. #11
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    I like this change.

    Makes gearing a little bit easier, and brings Dodge in line with how all the other itemboni work (aka items generally dont stack in DDO).


    But...

    i sincerly hope that enhancements / Epic Destinys / class abilities still stack! Otherwise a lot of options would suddenly loose their reason for existing.
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

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  12. #12
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    At first I was raging over this change. But after a few hours of contemplation, this seems OK to me. My current monk has Dodge (feat), Epic bracers of Wind (3%), and the amulet of the storm Reaver (4%)

    With this change I can drop my Bracers, Slot in Twisting Shade for the attack bonus and come out ahead in the total Dodge value by 1% while picking up some attack bonus.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  13. #13
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    It removes options. Its great for someone with a low mdb who doesn't really want to invest as it makes it easier for them to more dodge and be more survivable, but it removes the option to deeply invest in dodge... you can no longer "specialize" here if you want. You are creating a situation were a 8% dodge item become the only item that matters and is a pseudo-requirement.
    This... I should be happy that it makes gearing easier, but it also ruins some gear (all current 1% and 2% dodge items are pretty worthless now), and it makes us more cookie-cutter... I had one guy who focused on dodge, maxing it out... I guess I should be happy it's easier now... But it makes him less different from my other characters.

    How is Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack handled? What about Mobility on an item?

    you have to a mdb of 25. Anyone who has that is sacrificing PRR for dodge.... its a tradeoff and an option. The proposed system rewards players with lower mdb and those who don't want to invest. Those who are unwilling to choose and just want the max value of everything.
    This... It's probably a good change, but my gut reaction is that it's taking away a tradeoff decision. And hard trade-off decisions are what makes this game great.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  14. #14
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    At first I was raging over this change. But after a few hours of contemplation, this seems OK to me. My current monk has Dodge (feat), Epic bracers of Wind (3%), and the amulet of the storm Reaver (4%)

    With this change I can drop my Bracers, Slot in Twisting Shade for the attack bonus and come out ahead in the total Dodge value by 1% while picking up some attack bonus.
    Yeah I can make it work for me too... Probably a good change... Just feels wrong somehow. Maybe that's just my normal resistance to change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  15. #15
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yeah I can make it work for me too... Probably a good change... Just feels wrong somehow. Maybe that's just my normal resistance to change.
    After getting screwed with some recent changes (needing to slot devotion and now apparantly heal items when before pots were fine) it's nice to have FEWER gear-lots required for something instead of more.

  16. #16
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    ...Just feels wrong...
    I believe that feeling is because we lose the stacking ability of Dodge and exceptional skills which will point people to similar gear options. But with the level cap increasing, it was getting real hard to slot everything needed (looking at you exceptional fort) to stay self sufficient.

    I would like to ask Turbine if they have plans to readjust dodge values on some items though. This change nullifies some of the low dodge value gear.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    With this change, we also badly need better "Armored Agility" augments to increase max dex bonus. For low PRR melee classes like Barbarians, this is especially a problem. The highest augment is +2. We really need +4, or ideally +6.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    With this change, we also badly need better "Armored Agility" augments to increase max dex bonus. For low PRR melee classes like Barbarians, this is especially a problem. The highest augment is +2. We really need +4, or ideally +6.
    Remember you can take Mobility and Dwarven Armor Mastery and splash for Fighter Armor Mastery

  20. #20
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Remember you can take Mobility and Dwarven Armor Mastery and splash for Fighter Armor Mastery
    Half Orc barbarians are SOL. Not to mention barbs are one of the most feat and enhancement point starved classes. I don't even have a feat slot to take Improved Sunder, as much as I'd like it.

    Splashing 2 fighter is an option, but it lowers DPS. The barb capstone is one of the few that is actually worthwhile.
    Last edited by djl; 06-28-2013 at 09:21 AM.

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