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  1. #1
    Community Member esheep's Avatar
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    Default The song of weeping bards...

    Last time the enhancement pass was up I filled out a lengthy survey regarding the Spell Singer tree... with the return of the enhancement pass, I thought I'd give it another look:

    • Bards still don't have CHA to hit/dam (previously discussed by Breca and Vargouille(?) as being a strong likelihood during the MOTU/ED closed/open beta).
    • Fascinate gets boosts, making a granted ability far better than the mid-tier ability Enthrallment.
    • The mesmer ability added to Fascinate by core abilities lasts only for 30 seconds, suggesting it is not affected by song-length enhancements.
    • Cannot run while singing songs... yep.


    Enthrallment, being a tier-3 ability (in the tree) should really have a leg up on the granted ability (Fascinate)... yet, it doesn't. The boosts applied to Fascinate, are not applied to Enthrallment. Therefore the only reason to take Enthrallment is to gain access to higher level abilities -- if this is as intended, why not remove Enthrallment all together? Being a higher tier ability it makes sense that we should be able to crowd control mobs with Enthrallment that we can already crowd control with Fascinate? Right?

    On other notes, Inspire Courage still turns off auto-attack, and switching into and out of Fatesinger still pulls Inspire Courage off your hotbars (can't remember which FS ability is the cause).

    EDIT: Sometimes we only remember to write down what we dislike. The AP spent in this tree feels alright to me, and I enjoy being able to get both Spell Singer and Virtuoso songs... but it would've been cooler to have them remain separate trees and get new "tier 3" abilities as we would have expected to get with Virtuoso III or Spell Singer III had they ever been implemented.
    Last edited by esheep; 06-28-2013 at 12:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    it will go on and on and on to level 999

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Can't run while singing?

    Bard's need to be made crapier?

    I guess they just couldn't have paladins being the most useless class and decided to know BARDS down a peg.

  3. #3
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esheep View Post
    it would've been cooler to have them remain separate trees and get new "tier 3" abilities as we would have expected to get with Virtuoso III or Spell Singer III had they ever been implemented.
    Yeah, it would've been a lot cooler, if the suits hadn't fired Breca.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  4. #4
    Hatchery Founder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Yeah, it would've been a lot cooler, if the suits hadn't fired Breca.
    Yeah. Breca was genuinely passionate about Bard, and interacting with the players to get feedback. That's the kind of dev they shouldn't fire.
    RedShirt / Roleplayer of Giant Slayers, Inc. on Thelanis, formerly Tharashk.
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  5. #5
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Wait...bards can't move while singing, now? Do people even realize how important it is that bards can move and sing at the same time? Nobody wants to wait for a 3 minute recital at the beginning of each quest. And, can you imagine how many wasted songs we'd have by having allies or mobs run out of range of a single-target song?

  6. #6
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    Wait...bards can't move while singing, now? Do people even realize how important it is that bards can move and sing at the same time? Nobody wants to wait for a 3 minute recital at the beginning of each quest. And, can you imagine how many wasted songs we'd have by having allies or mobs run out of range of a single-target song?
    Don't worry. Bards won't be wasting your time singing every few minutes. Bards won't be singing at all because this enhancement pass has made them even more worthless than they already were. They'll all be TRing.
    ~ Cheara : Raizertron : Pozitron : Higgz Bowtron : Illudium : Staphe Infection : Abraa Capocus ~
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  7. #7
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Can't run while singing?

    Bard's need to be made crapier?

    I guess they just couldn't have paladins being the most useless class and decided to know BARDS down a peg.
    Hmm this is not true. I was running around the heart of wind ship and I could fascinate and inspire courage while moving.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  8. #8
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by esheep View Post
    Last time the enhancement pass was up I filled out a lengthy survey regarding the Spell Singer tree... with the return of the enhancement pass, I thought I'd give it another look:

    • Bards still don't have CHA to hit/dam (previously discussed by Breca and Vargouille(?) as being a strong likelihood during the MOTU/ED closed/open beta).
    • Fascinate gets boosts, making a granted ability far better than the mid-tier ability Enthrallment.
    • The mesmer ability added to Fascinate by core abilities lasts only for 30 seconds, suggesting it is not affected by song-length enhancements.
    • Cannot run while singing songs... yep.
    Where did you test the running songs. I can do it on the ship. Bards Cha to hit and dam I actually do not like because it has the possibility of pigeonholing bards into one or two builds. I do agree that enthrall could use a bump.

    Bards actually got a big bump with beta vs. alpha. I have not been able to test out spellsong vigor, but the text indicates that it might not be temporary spell points anymore. Somebody might want to test that out probably not yourself because you are saying that bards can not play on the move when they can.

    They improved warchanter quite a bit. At the core of that improvement is the skaldic rage now has an increased duration due to song length enhancements. I am curious if rallying cry stacks with haste - if so that is one heck of an enhancement.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #9

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    Did anyone check if in ss tree:

    - spellsong trance stacks with house p shipbuff

    - song of arcane might stacks with arcane augmentation on items

    ?
    Or it wasnt changed
    trixalai \o/ xirrantha \o/ trixilai //argonessen // Trolls Lair

  10. #10
    Community Member Rusty_Can's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esheep View Post
    Cannot run while singing songs... yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hmm this is not true. I was running around the heart of wind ship and I could fascinate and inspire courage while moving.
    Quick testing with a full lvl 25 bard:
    - standard songs such as Inspire Courage and Excellence work as on live;
    - while running, if you start singing Spell Song Trance, Song of Arcane Might, Spell Song Vigor and Enthrallment, your character stops; if you resume running while still singing, the song is fumbled (i.e. counter goes down, cooldown starts, buffs don't go off); animation feels awkward.
    Last edited by Rusty_Can; 06-30-2013 at 05:33 PM.
    On Thelanis: Hallelujah (Spellsinger) - Jerryrigged Juggernaut (caster FvS) - Sepulchral (Druid) - Chopchopchop (Warlock) - Alleyshadow (retired gimped monkcher). Formerly on Keeper : Misericordia (Thug) - Mumbo Jumbo (Battle Caster) - Infernal Can (WF Kinda Cleric) - Halleluyah (Melee Spellsinger).

  11. #11
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty_Can View Post
    Quick testing with a full lvl 25 bard:
    - standard songs such as Inspire Courage and Excellence work as on live;
    - while running, if you start singing Spell Song Trance, Song of Arcane Might, Spell Song Vigor and Enthrallment, your character stops; if you resume running while still singing, the song is fumbled (i.e. counter goes down, cooldown starts, buffs don't go off); animation feels awkward.
    That doesn't sound like the way it was intended. Now, is this a bug or just horrible design? As anyone who has ever played a spellsinger will know, trying to buff the party with songs while on the move is irritating, at best; this will make it near impossible.

  12. #12
    Community Member esheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Hmm this is not true. I was running around the heart of wind ship and I could fascinate and inspire courage while moving.
    Sounds like it is not the case for ALL songs...

    I probably tried it for enthrallment (as it is better on live, and that's what I use on live) and one of the other Virtuoso songs....

    First time I noticed I didn't think anything of it, second time it happened I took more note of it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    it will go on and on and on to level 999

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