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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default Stalwart Stance requiring S&B is not acceptable - Part Deux!

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-Edition-MKII

    Majormal's reply actually leaves me with a question so I need somebody who isn't stuck at work to confirm this . . . but does Stalwart stance still require a shield to be equipped like it did in Alpha?

    If so . . . insert nerd-rage here.

  2. #2
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Not just that but the bonus PRR "while a shield is held" that was in addition to the PRR given by the stance was conspicuously absent and was also broken on live for new characters (my old Pali still got the bonus new Pali's didn't) just like the last preview broke spell enhancements on live.

    Sword and board do not need a PRR nerf unless you plan to significantly buff their terrible aggro losing DPS. Actually let me rephrase that sword and board do not need a PRR nerf even if you plan to massive improve their DPS and they still won't keep aggro... what need of a shield if mobs are ignoring your little mosquito nibble DPS.

  3. #3
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    It's the same for paladin's Defender tree.

    Why nerf the defensive capabilities of the only two defensive PrE trees but do nothing to boost their offensive (or defense in a different way)? This makes entirely no sense whatsoever. The tree was/is decent on live, even if the dps is only a cut above healbot clerics and spellsingers. But now it'll take them longer to acquire anything resembling their previous defensive capabilities, those defensive capabilities are lower than before, and your dps is still the same.

    Why nerf a PrE that needed a buff instead?

  4. #4
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    It's the same for paladin's Defender tree.

    Why nerf a PrE that needed a buff instead?
    They might as well just remove these PREs from the game. Post expansion S&B = gimp.

    "Monk" tanks PWN them now. Take 6 monk levels, shadowfade, the shintao thingy for 50 more PRR, full earth-stance bought with feats . . . use a Centered two-hander.

    It is better by every measurable Metric.

    Seriously, check it out yourself. I cannot come close to the PRR, AC, threat, etc on my 18/2 Stalwart.

    Any I'm sorry, you ain't holding aggro over a THFing Kensai with earthstance 4 (70% more threat) and Shintao Defensive strikes (75% more threat over that). I'm sorry . . . what purpose do S&B guys serve?

    The low-hanging fruit in Shintao is so OP on splash builds its not funny.

    It's very annoying that this change is being done as it's simply not needed but that said changing it might be a moot point as DOS and Stalwart are worthless after this ENH pass anyway.

  5. #5
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post

    Why nerf the defensive capabilities of the only two defensive PrE trees but do nothing to boost their offensive (or defense in a different way)? This makes entirely no sense whatsoever. The tree was/is decent on live, even if the dps is only a cut above healbot clerics and spellsingers. But now it'll take them longer to acquire anything resembling their previous defensive capabilities, those defensive capabilities are lower than before, and your dps is still the same.
    Costs over 40 APs to get the defensive benefits we have now on live . . . and the shield requirement is a deal-breaker.

  6. #6
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    They might as well just remove these PREs from the game. Post expansion S&B = gimp.

    "Monk" tanks PWN them now. Take 6 monk levels, shadowfade, the shintao thingy for 50 more PRR, full earth-stance bought with feats . . . use a Centered two-hander.

    It is better by every measurable Metric.

    Seriously, check it out yourself. I cannot come close to the PRR, AC, threat, etc on my 18/2 Stalwart.

    Any I'm sorry, you ain't holding aggro over a THFing Kensai with earthstance 4 (70% more threat) and Shintao Defensive strikes (75% more threat over that). I'm sorry . . . what purpose do S&B guys serve?

    The low-hanging fruit in Shintao is so OP on splash builds its not funny.

    It's very annoying that this change is being done as it's simply not needed but that said changing it might be a moot point as DOS and Stalwart are worthless after this ENH pass anyway.

    Thus I said it needs a buff, not a nerf....

    If they could make the stalwart and DoS hold aggro better, it wouldn't be so bad. But just about any offensive melee build is going to pull aggro in the later levels unless the tank is spamming their aggro abilities (and now that they're taking away threat from using a shield in a defensive stance, it's going to be worse).

    These changes really make no sense. They need to give stalwart/DoS special tactics feats such as a shield stun/push something. Give them some utility, and not just a meatshield.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    Thus I said it needs a buff, not a nerf....

    If they could make the stalwart and DoS hold aggro better, it wouldn't be so bad. But just about any offensive melee build is going to pull aggro in the later levels unless the tank is spamming their aggro abilities (and now that they're taking away threat from using a shield in a defensive stance, it's going to be worse).

    These changes really make no sense. They need to give stalwart/DoS special tactics feats such as a shield stun/push something. Give them some utility, and not just a meatshield.
    YES IT WOULD BE! You'd still serve no purpose as an offesive build splashed monk would be BETTER defensively and have NO DPS loss.

    The changes make no sense, it's as if they were made by some random person off the street who never played DDO.

    With FOT especially anything "tanking" is infinitely better with improved evasion anyway. Just roll a monk.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 06-29-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    They might as well just remove these PREs from the game. Post expansion S&B = gimp.

    "Monk" tanks PWN them now. Take 6 monk levels, shadowfade, the shintao thingy for 50 more PRR, full earth-stance bought with feats . . . use a Centered two-hander.

    It is better by every measurable Metric.

    Seriously, check it out yourself. I cannot come close to the PRR, AC, threat, etc on my 18/2 Stalwart.

    Any I'm sorry, you ain't holding aggro over a THFing Kensai with earthstance 4 (70% more threat) and Shintao Defensive strikes (75% more threat over that). I'm sorry . . . what purpose do S&B guys serve?

    The low-hanging fruit in Shintao is so OP on splash builds its not funny.

    It's very annoying that this change is being done as it's simply not needed but that said changing it might be a moot point as DOS and Stalwart are worthless after this ENH pass anyway.
    I second that completely. As is, the SD PrE makes absolutely no sense.
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

  9. #9
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    I second that completely. As is, the SD PrE makes absolutely no sense.
    So is the general consensus that Stalwart is now completely worthless? Does anyone who actually understands the game mechanics not think this is garbage?

    Just trying to find a silver lining in this steaming-pile.

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