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  1. #1
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    Default Bard multiclass: Is manyshot worth it?

    I have an old toon that I resurrected with the free LR and am turned it into a 2 weapon fighter.

    Currently at 12 bard / 1 fighter. Planning on 16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 rogue

    I was wondering if getting Manyshot & the required other feats (Point blank shot / rapid shot) is worth it to give the toon a good ranged option. I've never tried Manyshot or a ranger so I don't know how strong it is.

    If i do decide to do a Manyshot Bard, i would probably do it with a greater heart of wood and make it 2 ranger instead of 2 fighter. But i just want to know if this build would be a good one before spending for the heart of wood. Currently, i still have enough dex to use bows just without those 3 feats.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    I was wondering if getting Manyshot & the required other feats (Point blank shot / rapid shot) is worth it to give the toon a good ranged option. I've never tried Manyshot or a ranger so I don't know how strong it is.

    If i do decide to do a Manyshot Bard, i would probably do it with a greater heart of wood and make it 2 ranger instead of 2 fighter. But i just want to know if this build would be a good one before spending for the heart of wood. Currently, i still have enough dex to use bows just without those 3 feats.
    Well. I'd be interested in knowing if it'll be any good, too - I've started such a toon, but as it's only level 3 currently I don't know yet... oh and it's supposed to have trap skills and get evasion too.

    The "final" build plan (the one I'm following so far, at least - 16 bard/2 ranger/2 rogue) should be in the last post on the first page of that thread,
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5024471

    Hm. I suppose I should edit the first post and see if I can edit the thread title too, given that in that last plan it's not going to end up a warchanter any more, even if it'll have that for a while...

  3. #3
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    Default Been thinking about a bow bard lately

    I've been thinking about a bow bard recently. Probably doable but it is so feat heavy you are going to be best doing bard/ranger/ftr.

    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    I have an old toon that I resurrected with the free LR and am turned it into a 2 weapon fighter.

    Currently at 12 bard / 1 fighter. Planning on 16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 rogue

    I was wondering if getting Manyshot & the required other feats (Point blank shot / rapid shot) is worth it to give the toon a good ranged option. I've never tried Manyshot or a ranger so I don't know how strong it is.

    If i do decide to do a Manyshot Bard, i would probably do it with a greater heart of wood and make it 2 ranger instead of 2 fighter. But i just want to know if this build would be a good one before spending for the heart of wood. Currently, i still have enough dex to use bows just without those 3 feats.
    RTFM on Khyber, Toy Soldiers.

    Toy Soldiers PD Roll Builds Guild on Wayfinder.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    I have an old toon that I resurrected with the free LR and am turned it into a 2 weapon fighter.

    Currently at 12 bard / 1 fighter. Planning on 16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 rogue

    I was wondering if getting Manyshot & the required other feats (Point blank shot / rapid shot) is worth it to give the toon a good ranged option. I've never tried Manyshot or a ranger so I don't know how strong it is.

    If i do decide to do a Manyshot Bard, i would probably do it with a greater heart of wood and make it 2 ranger instead of 2 fighter. But i just want to know if this build would be a good one before spending for the heart of wood. Currently, i still have enough dex to use bows just without those 3 feats.
    only ever had one ranged character so far, that being a spellsinging arcane archer, this was before the overhaul to Epics and epic destinies, so not the best say in the matter since I have no clue how she'd do in current epics, she was able to do quite a few of the older epics rather fine (house D, Von, House P). she was an elven (for arcane archer) 16bard (for inspired heroics,although now with epic feats it'd be for Inspire Excellence as well. as well as your 6th lvl spells (otto's irrisistable is nice))/2ftr(feats)/2rgr(bow str and free rapid shot).

    she did decent dps (since her buffs and stuff helped add it up) and was survivable (being ranged, with healing ability and CC), however manyshot was required to do any meaningful dps at heroics, went from having to kite mobs around, or let others rush them first, to being able to take down a monster (or monsters with the improved precise shot feat, which allows you to fire and shoot everything between you and your target (IE aim at the furthest thing back)) within a few seconds myself.

    That being said, unless you planned on being a trapper as well, then I'd rather go 2rgr (get that bow str which helps dps and rapid shot for free) rather then 2 rog. sure evasion is nice but it isnt required as a ranged bard since you'd try and be further back from the mobs, moving around which makes ya even harder to hit with spells, and even with decent dex for ranged abiltiies it usually wouldnt be enough for evasion to be meaningful at higher lvls where you'd actually need it.

    in the enhancement update they seem to be adding ranged doublestrike, so manyshot may not be much of a requirement for the future but for not I'd say take it because its a nice source of burst DPS, And if your going to be ranged then rapid shot (quicker firing and reloading of bows) and point blank shot (1w at close range, which is where you'd probably be most of the time even if you dont wish to be) will already be feats you want to take.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the feedback, all

    I will check out your thread Mna, thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    only ever had one ranged character so far, that being a spellsinging arcane archer, this was before the overhaul to Epics and epic destinies, so not the best say in the matter since I have no clue how she'd do in current epics, she was able to do quite a few of the older epics rather fine (house D, Von, House P). she was an elven (for arcane archer) 16bard (for inspired heroics,although now with epic feats it'd be for Inspire Excellence as well. as well as your 6th lvl spells (otto's irrisistable is nice))/2ftr(feats)/2rgr(bow str and free rapid shot).

    she did decent dps (since her buffs and stuff helped add it up) and was survivable (being ranged, with healing ability and CC), however manyshot was required to do any meaningful dps at heroics, went from having to kite mobs around, or let others rush them first, to being able to take down a monster (or monsters with the improved precise shot feat, which allows you to fire and shoot everything between you and your target (IE aim at the furthest thing back)) within a few seconds myself.

    That being said, unless you planned on being a trapper as well, then I'd rather go 2rgr (get that bow str which helps dps and rapid shot for free) rather then 2 rog. sure evasion is nice but it isnt required as a ranged bard since you'd try and be further back from the mobs, moving around which makes ya even harder to hit with spells, and even with decent dex for ranged abiltiies it usually wouldnt be enough for evasion to be meaningful at higher lvls where you'd actually need it.

    in the enhancement update they seem to be adding ranged doublestrike, so manyshot may not be much of a requirement for the future but for not I'd say take it because its a nice source of burst DPS, And if your going to be ranged then rapid shot (quicker firing and reloading of bows) and point blank shot (1w at close range, which is where you'd probably be most of the time even if you dont wish to be) will already be feats you want to take.
    Nice build. What i did with mine is i totally dumped Cha. It used to be a maxed out Charisma spellsinger but i felt I wasn't really using my spells and always wanted to try a 2wf build but never had the toon to do it with, so here im trying it out. The archery will just be the secondary mode of offense and will be used for those hard to hit monsters on ledges but the 2wf will be the main DPS mode so the toon will be in the main line of action most of the time.

    I will probably cap this toon out without any ranger feats and see if the bow DPS can go to decent numbers enough to serve its purpose of hitting hard to reach enemies and kiting then maybe use a heart of wood and try the 2 Ranger.

    I understand that 2WF is not as hot as it used to be, especially for a tight feat bard, but i chose it for fun and it is pretty fun so far. Lots of choices in effects to slot to weapons.

    I am planning to go IC:Piercing and try out the Deathnip and a GS Radiance Rapier.

  6. #6
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    let's see what we see in the EHN update. From the aplha it was looking like a bard has access to Heal and Wail of the banshee as a capstone. Not sure I'd want to splash with that available.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    See my Bardcher thread.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Here is my current bardcher build. There is one good reason to take Manyshot and to go with Ftr2/Rgr2/Brd16: BAB. By doing Rgr instead of Rog you get a BAB of 16, which qualifies you for 4 arrows when using Manyshot instead of 3 if you were to go Rog/Rgr/Brd. It all depends on your goals for the build. Manyshot is really important in raids like Fall of Truth when you want to have great burst DPS. So having that extra arrow can be extremely important.

    Secondly, a reason to go with Rgr instead of Rog is that you get two feats on a feat-starved build, namely Bow Strength and Rapid Shot. Fitting those in Rog/Ftr/Brd is a lot more difficult. And the Rgr Dilly from half-elf doesn't quite make up for it. So it depends on how important evasion is to you. But as an archer, you can avoid most Reflex save effects with some skill. And even if you do get hit, you will usually only take half damage with the heavy investment in Dex. So what it really comes down to is whether trapping is an integral part of your build. For me, it's not so important. The sneak attack from Rog is not going to be significant.

    The goals for my build were utility, decent crowd-control/charms, good burst DPS, and caster support via Spellsinger. It's a great support character in raids and always welcome. You can hit Manyshot, Haste Boost, and Damage Boost (Human Versatility) all at the same time and get great burst DPS for 20 seconds. As I said, it all depends on the goals of the build. You will need to farm some decent bows either way, which is easier said than done (Epic Bow of the Silver Flame, Greensteel Lit 2, Tier 3 Epic Elemental Longbow of Earth, Pinion).

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Bardcher Endgame
    Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 334
    Spell Points: 905 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             10                    12
    Dexterity            18                    21
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             16                    26
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 25)
    Balance               4                    10
    Bluff                 6                    34
    Concentration         6                    36
    Diplomacy             3                    13
    Disable Device       n/a                    5
    Haggle                7                    35
    Heal                 -1                     4
    Hide                  4                    10
    Intimidate            3                    13
    Jump                  0                     6
    Listen               -1                     4
    Move Silently         4                    10
    Open Lock             n/a                  10
    Perform               7                    35
    Repair               -1                     5
    Search               -1                     5
    Spot                 -1                     4
    Swim                  0                     6
    Tumble                5                    11
    Use Magic Device      7                    39
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+3)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Perform (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+3)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+3)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 21 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1.5)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3.06033e+007)
    Feat: (Selected) Inspire Excellence
    
    
    Level 22 (Fighter)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3.06037e+007)
    
    
    Level 23 (Fighter)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3.06038e+007)
    
    
    Level 24 (Fighter)
    Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery
    
    
    Level 25 (Fighter)
    Skill: Tumble (+0.5)

  9. #9
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    My answer to your original question is definitely yes, Manyshot is worth it. Being it the best DPS in the current game, you cannot go wrong on that - do whatever you want while Manyshot is on timer (melee, shoot, cast, whatever), but as soon as it gets off timer, Manyshot. It is that awesome.

    The thing about BAB of 15/16 in the post above me does not hold true anymore with the epic levels. Now it does not matter how much BAB do you have at lvl 20, because epic levels will make your Manyshot 4 arrows a shot anyway. The evasion version is thus viable too.

    On a side note, check the Tirain thread in my signature. Tirain is third-life bard, for second time going the archer way, and this life with Evasion and trapskills she is breezing through anything out there.
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  10. #10
    Community Member JasonJi72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post
    My answer to your original question is definitely yes, Manyshot is worth it. Being it the best DPS in the current game, you cannot go wrong on that - do whatever you want while Manyshot is on timer (melee, shoot, cast, whatever), but as soon as it gets off timer, Manyshot. It is that awesome.

    The thing about BAB of 15/16 in the post above me does not hold true anymore with the epic levels. Now it does not matter how much BAB do you have at lvl 20, because epic levels will make your Manyshot 4 arrows a shot anyway. The evasion version is thus viable too.

    On a side note, check the Tirain thread in my signature. Tirain is third-life bard, for second time going the archer way, and this life with Evasion and trapskills she is breezing through anything out there.
    You beat me to the punch about epic level bab.

    Mine is a 16 bard 2/2 Ftr/Rgr. Definitely take 16 Bard. That is not an option. I went with Virtuoso on mine for better songs CC, because I knew I would never make the steep caster dc requirements.

    Imp Precise Shot is great, and I would argue for it on almost every archer out there. However, I have found that I could live without it on a Bardcher. If you are soloing, you are singing, and you dont usually want to wake the whole room up, and if you are with a group and singing, you will be begging the other AA's to turn IPS off.

    My character was created pre-MOTU, so I would possibly go with 2 rogue for evasion and take the feats for OW Crit, if I were to make it today. My bard uses dual kopeshes with arcane archer.

    Bards lack dps burst options, and manyshot helps out with this significantly, especially if you are an arcane archer.
    Jyn... Kender... Thelanis

    *Insert clever comment here*

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