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  1. #1
    Community Member WyntherKnight's Avatar
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    Default Suggestion on replacing Bravery Bonus

    I'm not sure someone already had a similar idea but, why not replace Bravery Bonus with Party Bonus (PB).

    Instead of using Bravery Bonus BB, which usually promotes solo play, why not implement Party Bonus PB which can promote grouping/partying.

    It will work something like this:

    It will not depend on the difficulty that you ran the quest, rather on the number of party members that ran the quest. You will get the xp bonus as long as you have a streak of finished quests that you ran with a certain number of people.

    Party bonus: Running a quest for the first time a certain number of party members will grant a flat xp percentage bonus:

    Members - Bonus
    3 - 5%
    4 - 10%
    5 - 15%
    6 and up - 20%

    Streak bonus: Streak bonus stacks itself up to 5 times and the max bonus will still depend on the number of party members you ran with:

    Members - Streak Bonus
    3 - 20%
    4 - 30%
    5 - 45%
    6 and up - 50%

    For the 6 and up streak, as long as you ran a quest with at least 6 members, the streak will not be disrupted (raid quests)

    The initial Party bonus and the Streak bonus stack with each other and with other standard first time bonuses.

    Running a new quest with different number of party members will break the streak.


    Possible Issues:

    1) Since unlike BB where you can only run a quest on elite/hard once to get the BB bonus, a party can run one easy quest over and over with the same number of players, and get the desired XP.
    - People have been doing this for a long time, especially on challenges. The XP depletion rule for repeating quests rule will still apply, and there will come a point where some players will need to log out or get bored or want to do something else

    2) Multiboxers - no different from soloers with the BB streaks, they want to solo then, and they still want to solo now.

    3) Panther, Owlbear, gold hires, and normal hires - same as soloers on the BB strearks, plus they will have to buy the expansions with permanent hires and buy gold hires from the ddo store (which is a plus for Turbine)


    This is just a suggestion that might promote more grouping that soloing. After all, D&D, the DDO is based on, is suppose to be grouping game.
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  2. #2
    Community Member AsburyParker's Avatar
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    I am thinking we need to get off of the “get rid of BB” issue. I don’t say this because I like BB. In fact, I think it does contribute to issues in forming or maintaining groups. However, BB is a bonus that exists in the game and trying to take it away would cause other issues. Besides BB does have the intended effect of motivating people to try various and challenging quests.
    I do like the idea of giving an XP bonus based on the number of players in a group. But, I would not suggest something as complex as you have described. We have XP bonuses for killing, breaking, disarming, no deaths, and BB so why not add a bonus for each additional player (say 5-10% per player) in a group (not including hirelings). If you want to find a way to motivate experienced players to group, I think it can honestly be said that DDO players can be motivated by bonus XP.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyntherKnight View Post
    1) Since unlike BB where you can only run a quest on elite/hard once to get the BB bonus, a party can run one easy quest over and over with the same number of players, and get the desired XP.
    - People have been doing this for a long time, especially on challenges.
    Really? When was the last time you saw a challenge farm posted for the xp? Not for ingredients, not for first time bonus... but to run the same one over and over for xp?

    I don't think I've seen even one such a group posted in the last 6 months.

  4. #4
    Community Member WyntherKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Really? When was the last time you saw a challenge farm posted for the xp? Not for ingredients, not for first time bonus... but to run the same one over and over for xp?

    I don't think I've seen even one such a group posted in the last 6 months.

    The point I was making was that IF a party bonus was made instead of Bravery Bonus, people might just keep playing an easy quest with high XP with the same number of players over and over again ignoring other quests. My argument is that this is nothing new with the current BB bonus (even before BB bonus was implemented), farming the same quest over and over has been common to players (until the XP has been drained out). One such farming of is in the form of the challenges (although for items instead of xp) where a player or a group will just play a certain challenge over and over as some challenges are easier and faster to do than others (I have been in a group that does this).
    Last edited by WyntherKnight; 06-27-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    /not signed will never sign

    The reason being while a grouping bonus might not be bad, the rest of your argument is completely irrational and untrue. BB means that I actually throw up a pug occassionally when I play rather than just farming the **** out of normal solo. BB leads to either more groups or at least equal amounts of groups.

    That said your grouping bonus wouldn't do anything either because people will just multi-box and farm normals for the path of least resistance and greatest xp gain.

    This means that your premise is wrong.

    and

    Your solution would do nothing at best or further decrease groups.

  6. #6

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    I'd rather see a "balanced party" bonus added while leaving BB as it exists now.

    For the balanced party bonus, you'd get 5% for every unique class icon in the party. For purposes of this bonus, hirelings are ignored as are any players who have any amount of late arrival penalty. The bonus is awarded at quest completion.

    Bring together the classic combo of fighter, cleric, wizard and rogue and your party gets a nice 20% bonus for every quest.

  7. #7
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Oh great; a bonus for people who multi-box. Swell idea.

    /not signed

  8. #8
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyntherKnight View Post

    This is just a suggestion that might promote more grouping that soloing. After all, D&D, the DDO is based on, is suppose to be grouping game.
    No, actually, D&D was not a "grouping" game. It's about making a game that works with however many players you happen to have. That's one reason why it had elaborate rules for "hirelings and henchmen". Basically it was about one "player" being a "dungeon master" and tailoring the game to the other players and their schedules. So sometimes there may even be only one "live player" in a group if all the other guys couldn't have the time to play; sometimes more. In an overarching campaign, it could be quite reasonable to advance certain story aspects of one or two characters at a time. Very little of which relates to the video game called DDO. The DM is a scripted AI. Not a human being.

  9. #9
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Really? When was the last time you saw a challenge farm posted for the xp? Not for ingredients, not for first time bonus... but to run the same one over and over for xp?

    I don't think I've seen even one such a group posted in the last 6 months.
    I see one nearly every day

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  10. #10
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    NO to dumping BB yes to party bonus

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyntherKnight View Post
    The point I was making was that IF a party bonus was made instead of Bravery Bonus, people might just keep playing an easy quest with high XP with the same number of players over and over again ignoring other quests. My argument is that this is nothing new with the current BB bonus (even before BB bonus was implemented), farming the same quest over and over has been common to players (until the XP has been drained out).
    Except that Bravery Bonus was added to the game as a direct incentive to foster alternative methods of playing. The system proposed here would essentially be promoting returning to farming out a very small number of quests, with the addition of tossing in 5x multibox characters whenever your friends are not around.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Oh great; a bonus for people who multi-box. Swell idea.

    /not signed
    Encouraging grouping is fine - forcing grouping is not. I agree...definitely against this idea.

    Bravery bonus 'forces' you to run elite if you want optimal xp. That can be done solo, in a group, however you'd like. You're not forced to group or solo either one. This suggestion forces one person's preferred play style (solo or grouping) on everyone else as the optimal one.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Except that Bravery Bonus was added to the game as a direct incentive to foster alternative methods of playing. The system proposed here would essentially be promoting returning to farming out a very small number of quests, with the addition of tossing in 5x multibox characters whenever your friends are not around.
    It's really a double-whammy in that regard as not only do you remove the incentive to farm a single quest but you also add a disincentive for running more than one quest (I have to run my 5 other accounts to the next quest I'm running).
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  14. #14
    Community Member crazycaren's Avatar
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    Default Does Bravery discourage groups

    Hi
    I'm not sure why the original poster said that bravery encourages solos. I had given up on pugging for a while but bravery brought me back to joining and initiating groups because I can't solo everything on elite, especially 17+ (Acute Delerium anyone?), and it's way faster to have a group on elite.

    Just 1 opinion.
    Why not invite your spouse to play?

  15. #15
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    My thoughts:

    1. Eliminate streaks. Give a flat one-time bonus for the first time based on the difficulty. No streaks, no worry over breaking them.
    2. Instead of a quest killing a streak outright, have it DECREMENT once per quest that you run that doesn't qualify.
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  16. #16
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    PB would come to mean Piking Bonus It'd encourage people to group up with over-level players to zerg the mission for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by WyntherKnight View Post
    It will not depend on the difficulty that you ran the quest, rather on the number of party members that ran the quest. You will get the xp bonus as long as you have a streak of finished quests that you ran with a certain number of people.

    Party bonus: Running a quest for the first time a certain number of party members will grant a flat xp percentage bonus:

    Running a new quest with different number of party members will break the streak.
    -So what would be the incentive to run on Hard/Elite, for the majority of quests where there's not differentiated loot?

    -Does everyone get a "streak bonus", even if its not their first time on the mission? Seems like that encourages meta-gaming too by only allowing one "first timer" in the group per run so you can maximize your bonus runs

    -It'd greatly discourage grouping, because no one would want to start until they have a full party. If you cant get that sixth, the quest never starts. And what happens if someone in the party drops mid-quest? Does everyone have to start over then? Or if it only counts how many people are grouped when the quest instance is opened, that's more meta-gaming: people grouping up just to increase the group count, then dropping once the quest is opened.

    Besides, I think there's already a "party bonus" in that dungeon scaling isn't 1:1 with party size....a full group of 6 can blast through any given mission faster than a soloer/team of 2, meaning your XP/min is a lot better.

    Also, why you wanna screw the casual players? If they run a few quests with friends/guildies and get a streak going, and maybe level up, why would they have to break that streak if they couldn't find a group and wanted to hit new quests?

  17. #17
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    /Not signed. Definitely not. There are a few problems with your suggestion:
    1) Bravery Bonus promotes the idea of running different quests on elite. It does not dissuade people from grouping. One thing that promotes grouping is having the quests difficult enough that you want to have other people with you to help you defeat the quest...I like bravery bonus and think it should stay.
    2) Your idea of a party streak bonus would really hurt the casual player who wants to log in and only play one or two quests. Not everyone has hours on end to play. If anything it would hurt grouping because once you have your initial group of 6 people (that takes how long to form), when people slowly start leaving you wouldn't want to fill empty slots.
    3) Running the same quest over and over again is dreadfully boring! Perhaps you may like doing this, but I would prefer not to play at all if I were forced to do this.

    Instead, here are my ideas to promote grouping:
    1) Make questing slightly more difficult so you want other people to help you. Perhaps instead of making the ideal level to run a quest being 2 levels lower on elite, make it 1 level lower on elite. Thus elite quests would be considered +1 quest level instead of +2. This also has more of a traditional PnP feel because a quest of level X would want to be run by adventurers levels X-1 to X+1 (ex. a level 10 quest would be run by characters levels 9-11).
    2) Go with danotmano1998's idea of eliminating or decrementing streak. This way you can join a group needing help who is not running a quest on elite without feeling severely punished.
    3) If the developers really feel the need to have a grouping bonus, make it a simple, flat bonus (ex. 10-20%) for having 4 or more people in the group without any late entry penalties (i.e. you can't add people just before the end just to increase your XP bonus).
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  18. #18
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    Too many multi exploits on any version of this, and it punishes people who like to solo.
    I really like the idea of decrementing a streak instead of breaking though... that needs some attention.

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