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  1. #1
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    Default For Review: 2nd life bard

    Please comment on the following 2 builds as a first life fighter and was thinking of going bard for the experience. Keep in mind i have my GS greataxe weapons and GS items from first life is the reason for THF line. I'm looking for the better self healing/soloability DPS version of the two builds.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    tr dey bard1 
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
    (2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 290
    Spell Points: 512 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 13
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             20                    31
    Dexterity             8                    11
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom                8                    11
    Charisma             12                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    21
    Bluff                 1                     3
    Concentration         5                     6
    Diplomacy             1                     3
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle                1                     3
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate            1                     5
    Jump                  9                    24
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock             3                    23
    Perform               n/a                  23
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                  3                     7.5
    Swim                  5                    10
    Tumble                3                     4
    Use Magic Device      5                    25.5
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    and the next one....

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    tr dey bard2 
    Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
    (2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 350
    Spell Points: 512 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity             8                    11
    Constitution         18                    22
    Intelligence          8                    11
    Wisdom                8                    11
    Charisma             12                    17
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    23
    Bluff                 1                     3
    Concentration         6                     9
    Diplomacy             1                     3
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle                1                     3
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate            1                     5
    Jump                  8                    24
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock             3                    22
    Perform               n/a                  23
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     2
    Spot                  3                     8
    Swim                  4                     8
    Tumble                3                     4
    Use Magic Device      5                    25.5
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

  2. #2
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokitupgood View Post
    Please comment on the following 2 builds as a first life fighter and was thinking of going bard for the experience. Keep in mind i have my GS greataxe weapons and GS items from first life is the reason for THF line. I'm looking for the better self healing/soloability DPS version of the two builds.
    first off, both dwarf and horc get -2 to starting cha, which isn't a big deal for you as warchanters don't really need more than minimal cha for casting spells. this however begs the question why are you taking force of personality? it's a weak feat at best, let alone when your cha is low.
    granted, you have not completely dumped cha, which leads me to my next question - why haven't you?
    this is especially puzzling as you've dumped dex. having evasion will do you little good if you don't have any dex to back it up.

    you've also mentioned gs weapons as your main reason for the THF line. it's been my experience that cleave and great cleave offer better damage than the THF line.

    Also, for someone looking for soloability you seem to be sacrificing your int off the bat, essentially giving up on trapping, which is a shame as you intend to solo and already have rogue levels and evasion. Aside from needing the int for trap skill modifier, you would also want to have those extra skill points, and the more the merrier.

    and last but not least, you've mentioned wanting better self healing, which makes perfect sense on a bard build. however, neither race offers you any help with that.

    so.... with all that in mind, I suggest the following build:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 330
    Spell Points: 424 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             17                    24
    Dexterity            11                    14
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence         13                    16
    Wisdom                9                    12
    Charisma             10                    13
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CON
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    human heal amp for an extra 30% healing, human extra skill points and the higher int allow for trapping, raised dex and lowered cha. The starting wis at 9 means that with ship buffs and a swappable +wis item mean you can hit most wis runes when needed. I personally enjoy that ability when soloing quests.

    as for feats, picked up cleave and great cleave, took improved crit earlier as you didn't mention if your gs axe is a min2 or a lit2.
    downside - lost out on greater THF (oh no! :P)
    you lose 3% chance for glancing blows to proc elemental effects, and 10% of glancing blow damage.
    you gain great cleave, 3[W] damage to everyone around you. and also incidentally great cleave qualifies you for taking the epic feat overwhelming critical.

    comparison to Horc and dwarf? you miss out on damage through enhancements in favor extra damage via great cleave, better survivability, improved healing ability, and having trapping skills.

    enjoy

  3. #3
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    Also a fan of human bards here.
    I'd go with Lauf's build (more or less, perhaps slightly different stats). More notably, I'd try to fit Empower Healing and maybe Quicken later. And dump Inspired Attack III for.. something. Probably Bard Scrolls/Wands and/or Human Greater Adaptability Strength.

  4. #4
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    on my first capped toon i tried the 2 handed fighting line and agree it sucked badly.

    On a bard with 8 Int, you get 7 skill points with a +2 tome, so still quite possible to squeeze in all the needed Bard/Rogue skills while a bit tight, but you will hav trouble hitting some of the runes in quests.

    Going with 8 Cha could still work with a +2 tome since you only need a max of 16 to get lvl 6 spells. At early game you will have trouble in the first few lvls casting spells but since you're a melee, you wouldn't need to so much.

    If you were to neglect one rogue ability, it would be Open lock. Nice to have but ok not to as well if you go low Int.

    16/17 Str and 16/17 Con vs 18 is probably a wiser choice as those last 2 numbers don't really give that much compared to what they're worth in versatility.

  5. #5
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    Going with 8 Cha could still work with a +2 tome since you only need a max of 16 to get lvl 6 spells. At early game you will have trouble in the first few lvls casting spells but since you're a melee, you wouldn't need to so much.
    those first few levels are the reason I gave the build 10 cha. According to my leveling suggestion first level spells become available level 3 when the +1 tome kicks in, 2nd level spells become available at level 8 (+2 kicks in at level 7, so no problem there) and 3rd level spells at level 11, same time as the +3 tome. thus enabling spell casting without needing to slot cha items before reaching level 14.

    hopefully by that time there should be little to no problem for finding a gear slot for a cha item, solving all future issues. (personally I enjoy using the sora-kell set on battle bards)

    if this is not a concern, cha can easily be dropped completely to an 8, I would then put the extra points into dex for a better reflex

  6. #6
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I'd try to fit Empower Healing and maybe Quicken later.
    if dropping the THF line, I would suggest considering magical training for one of the 2 feat slots. having echoes of power on a warchanter can go a long way, not to mention the extra spell points.

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