Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 241
  1. #161
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Lets see, I did my first TR back in march and just hit 15 yesterday on a character I actually like playing so choose to play it more often than I would one that I'm just playing to get the past life (which isn't something I'd likely do anyway).

    I do craft and heal amp is nowhere to be found there.

    As for time and patience, what good will those do you if you can't get into a group due to not having the survivability you need time an patience to get? I don't know about you but I play to have fun, not to have fun at some point in the future. Which is likely the real gap you guys are going to have to bridge, because this is the mindset of many of those you seem to think should be playing the game your way.
    not trying to sound rude, but it seems you are making excuses. if survivability is an issue for you than how about running quests on a lower difficulty and using a hire? when you have gotten better at pot chugging, using skill to mitigate damage and acquired some gear than maybe your survivability will be better and can get into groups. I don't believe in just making everything an easy button because people don't want to take the time to make their characters better. if you want more power, than you have to put some effort into it. even those self sufficient cookie cutter builds had to invest in some work to get that kind of power and that's only part of it. the other part is knowing how to play that build efficiently.

  2. #162
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    My pally's cure serious wounds heals 400 HP for 22 SP, which is clearly obtainable if you build for it. That's plentiful healing, and is not in any way limited to casual. (On epic elite, if I ever played it, that would become 400 HP for 32 spell points.)

    No, I am not kidding you. An alt that is poorly played, poorly geared, or both, is not representative of the self-sufficiency of that class.
    Yeah my paladin can hit close to those numbers as well.........even when he was a ranger last life his csw was hitting for 200+ this was back at level 20 cap and stuff though, as a ranger could solo tank/self heal on jailor/suulo in tod on hard, even managed elite with no outside help but torc con-opt helped there.......yes this was back in pajama tanking days. But on the pally ive solo healed while tanking either the reaver or the dracolich in epic hard fall of truth yeah I know its not EE but the party was a little supprised and happy that they didnt need to devote much/any resources to keeping me up. I only had trouble when I had a bunch of trash on me as well as the one of those bosses.

    But back to the ranger first life, the self healing was worthwhile even undergeared as a first life charactor I was able to keep myself up and even throw others a cure, when I got my torc and other gear it was like christmas, use to solo farm hard/elite amarath to get greensteel mats for my alts on that toon. I shake my head at those who do not bother to have any self healing on bards,rangers, paladins, especially now with the helpful stuff from EDs, its really nice to not have a wipe because the jhealer dced, or to run into a quest at any level without having to wait hours for a healer, if thats how people like to play their bard/ranger/paladin no self heals well then I guess thats fine but I don't think i would want to run with those people much because its not so much a trade off to get good self healing on those classes and it makes a real big difference in a lot of situations.

  3. #163
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Really? I trust hirelings to keep me alive as dieing isn't that big a deal (not permadeath, so at worst it's a free ride to a tavern which is a generally good thing in my book).

    I make no excuses either, I just avoid your groups because, to me BYOH mostly means "be prepared to take this game way to seriously". I also play the game, never work it.
    you definitely got me all wrong. I don't join BYOH usually and avoid them as much as possible because I have had more bad experiences with them than good. I believe in player skill and teamwork a lot more than zerging for fast completion. I find them sloppy and inefficient most times. ill either join a team oriented group or solo sometimes with hire. through trial and error, i tought myself how to be self sufficient and not rely on someone else for heals. theres been several healers who said they wouldn't heal me because i was using frenzy on my barb. i said that was fine and took care of myself through the rest of the quest. i adjusted my play style when i had only myself to rely on, even saved a FVS from dying once.

    i play to have fun too, but i wont have much fun if i feel like a burden in a group and blame the game instead of doing something about it myself to make my playing experience even more enjoyable.

  4. #164
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    In every byoh thread it's about 1/2 and 1/2 on the players who post. Those who follow the playsyle and those who don't.

    In the end it revolves around the divine classes. That is where the friction seems to lie.

    So where are the "roleplayer" divines? Since the division seems to be about 1/2 and 1/2 why is there even a shortage of "healers" out there?

    I know in every guild I'v been in many of those playing divines do go anonymous and do refuse to pug divines. I don't think you can actually blame this on "byoh" runs. Where are the divines of the players who don't like "byoh"?

    I know I run divines in pugs and I'm not that picky about whether they are byoh or not. Sure I'll foot the bill for the people that don't bring squat. It's not my preference but it does keep me in practice.

    There are players oiut there that have never run a divine or if they do they run it through the levels as quickly as possible to get into another class. Where is their sacrifice for the good of the game?

    If there were "healers" out there running these other groups I don't think byoh parties would even be an issue.

  5. #165
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    i play to have fun too, but i wont have much fun if i feel like a burden in a group and blame the game instead of doing something about it myself to make my playing experience even more enjoyable.
    Well said.

    Some people will never agree that even computer games are skill based at some extent and that you have to put some effort in order to be good. Not only knowledge but, the first times you maximize the output of your character (non stop action) it is stressful because you have alot to handle. Then it becomes a habit. Then you become a rockstar. Then you understand people when they talk about skills or will to give their best even if it's a hobby. Then you also understand BYOH and why those BYOH players actually avoid the non BYOH players. It all makes sense once you get there.

    It's just different interrest and what you want to get out of that hobby (DDO in that case). I understand that some people don't want to get there because for them a hobby is pure relaxation while for other it's more like: "While i'm doing this, why not get better at it" and that applies for EVERYTHING in life. Different people, mindset, goal, etc. are all "living" in that same micro society that is a DDO server.

    Is it so hard for people to just mind their own business and enjoy stuff the way they do without judging the other's way of enjoying themselves. Well it sure seems so.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-01-2013 at 09:34 PM.

  6. #166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    So where are the "roleplayer" divines? Since the division seems to be about 1/2 and 1/2 why is there even a shortage of "healers" out there?
    The anti-BYOH crowd won't roll up and pug divines because they don't like healing. They want someone else to heal their redbar because for them, tending a redbar is no fun. And they never see the irony.

  7. #167
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Honestly you've hit on one of the problems with this game. Most choices are flavor choices.
    Odd, that's exactly what I find so appealing & engaging. To say one is a "caster" is in no way a description of the character beyond the fact that they use spells. With so many variables like race, specialty & spell selection, and playstyle; the possible permutations of a "caster" are quite large. Flavor is where individuality is expressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    With the way game design and player ..... thought processes have gone there are only a few options for most builds.
    I believe it's very much more the latter than the former. Game design doesn't call a non-self healing Horc Barb a noob, players do. Players are the ones who say "smart players" choose Helf w/ a cleric dilly for their Barbs, not game design. Players speak (presumptuously) on behalf of other players that healing is no fun (as though divines must choose between healing or contributing otherwise - that they're somehow incapable of both); game design doesn't say any of that. The games' design allows for a great many choices, players have deemed that "balanced parties" are a no-no and everyone must be self-healing do-it-alls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I don't think anyone will argue that there are fewer and fewer divines pugging, and that in some quests, quite a few of them hirelings are pretty well useless because of their poor ai. This means that the best choice to be able to play content instead of waiting around to play content is to be very self sufficient. This of course means that fewer build choices work well, and this problem is honestly just going to get worse with the enhancement and skill pass in the expansion. I'd love to see different options work better for self healing, give dwarves the whole iron stomach enhancement that's in the eh pass but possibly tweak it up even higher, give horc's some kind of enhanced vampirism that scales with str would kind of fit. Not sure what to do with the elvish classes and halflings but something unique could be thought up. It may not be true to pnp dnd but it would help with where the game is imo. That said I don't think the devs are going to do it, so we have to work with what's there, and as the game gets older and the population possibly shrinks farther byoh is probably going to be more and more prevalent.
    This really does get more to the crux of the issue. If there were more divines running around (that healed more than just themselves) then (I think) there wouldn't be the perceived requirement for self-sufficiency. "Balances Parties" that include healers look at the Horc Barb as an asset rather than a detriment to success, at least mine do (and yes, I am one of those pugging divines who can heal, cc and dps, whatever is called for at the time). I remember many more pugging divines before a rash of "divine abuse" swept the game. Lots of "I was half a map away and you let me die!" along with "If the party wiped, it was the healers' fault" carp was going around. Again, that's a player attitude issue rather than a game design one.

    So, with less healers playing and nobody wanting to wait forever to get one in their group (and who can blame them?) self sufficiency would seem to be the way to go for the sake of expediency. But to say that it's due to game design is looking in the wrong direction, and thus so is looking at game designers to fix a problem we created and, according to threads like this, wish to perpetuate as the norm.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  8. #168
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    If there were "healers" out there running these other groups I don't think byoh parties would even be an issue.
    I think you just hit the issue on the head........as for me ive always liked playing self sufficient as possible characters. But that doesn't mean i will not heal others even if it was a byoh lfm, and I don't mind if others will help my characters out of a bad situation by tossing me a heal.

    I have no divine atm but I do run my spellsinger as a CC/healer and have healed quests and raids.

    I have even run with barbarians and fighters and healed them on my paladin in epics n/h unfortunately they might have to rein in their playstlye a bit, one of my friends is fun to group with because he will try and trip and stun mobs, actually cares about his healing amp and also other forms of damage mitigation, and understands when its best to let my paladin have the aggro so he can whip his shield and torc out and get some sp back or just to save him taking a whole lot of damage.

    I laughed at another barbarian though when we where doing EE drow city chain......we had a fs who tried really hard to keep everyone healed but this guy would zerg ahead and try and rambo the whole map....and shout about how uber his dps was and then sceam about the healer when he went *ding* It was funny that guy really made the quest tough for us with him running around upping up the alerts. The quest before it was just my guildy on a jug and me on my paladin and it was much smoother even though this time round we had a good FS and a good wf sorc one zerging wacka do can make that much difference. This guy had multiple lives and a esos and other good gear but no heal amp, needless to say we ditched him for the next quests and they all went by fine without a hitch, not one death compared to when he was in the party we almost wiped multiple times. with him gone my pally and my guildies jug and a fighter who joined all took turns with their LD top tier power and we mowed through the mobs, the FS could not believe how easy it was to now heal/hardly at all and he could focus some on dps. We did not miss that barbs uber dps one bit.

    Anyway when its guild stuff or a bunch of friends we have no trouble finding divines but a lot of my friends/guild mates who run divines only pull them out for people they know. I myself will try and heal others if I can but the attitude of some people can really wear on you. People that expect to be waited on hand and foot like they are royalty and the people who heal/cc/buff them are trash or just worthless peons really kills it. And I do not blame the shortage of healers in random pugs on the people who go anon and only pull the divine out for friends. If people going to complain about lack of healers, roll up their own, or a self sufficient toon, or maybe change their attitude when they next see someone playing a support role and they might make a friend who will help them out in future questing.

    In my limited experience the divines that refused to outright heal anyone else was a small minority of the divines I came across but on the other hand there was much, much more players on characters who could not in anyway heal themselves who expected to be served and babysat and where not willing to curb the way they where playing to help the group when it was them that needed the groups co-operation to just stay alive the most which I find so ironic.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 07-01-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  9. #169
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    But to say that it's due to game design is looking in the wrong direction, and thus so is looking at game designers to fix a problem we created and, according to threads like this, wish to perpetuate as the norm.
    Yes and no. What you are saying is true in most content. I however would contend that with ee content everyone needs to have a way of self healing for at least 200 hp at a click. The reason being that you can get damage coming in very fast and even if you have a healer there they may not be able to heal fast enough at times. Having a way to hit 200 hp in a shot will save your life and can save a group from wiping. That is game design.

  10. #170
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    Where are the divines of the players who don't like "byoh"?
    ^THIS!^

    There seems to be a great many more people want to receive heals than willing to give them. If everyone playing a melee also had a healing divine in the wings, and was willing/interested in playing it, BYOH could go back to being what it started out as - just another flavor of character design; which IMHO is how it should be.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  11. #171
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    You've got it all wrong. While I don't add BYOH on my lfm tag, I certainly end up with no healer 90% of the time. Do I take it more seriously because I don't wanna wait for a healer or are you the one who'se willing to wait the extra 30mins to possibly ensure a win (I guess). Which is more serious? I don't know. I guess this is just not relevant to "seriousness" at all.

    And our groups communicate alot, we zerg while chatting and everyone's happy (except some new players once in a while that are unlucky to fall after a bad pug experience - then patience isn't always there). We laugh when someone zerged a bit too hard and dies because we also don't care at all about losing 10% exp. Go back to RPing with your hireling or please learn how other really think before making such ignorant statements. But yeah... you're way is the right one, we're bad people I get it.

    Edit: On top of that, everyone can go AFK or pike a run once in a while if he has something else to do or wants to eat, shower or whatever without leaving the group. People can chose what they wanna run as we don't dictacte but want to please pretty much everyone. We even sometime hold up exp (overcap or just stop playing) so we can play with a folk we met the day before again.

    We = I = the group
    My way is only the right way for me and those who play like me. Unlike those who support the premise of this thread who feel their way is the only way and getting everyone on line to playing like they do is some kind of essential service.

    You see I don't RP with my hire, I just pace my play at what they can handle and if they can't we just start again. I also don't see the point in "piking a run", but then I don't stress over xp, it'll still be there when I get to playing that content. What I don't like is grouping with those who don't seem to want to be there and are just running content to get it over with. Their lack of interest shows in their game play.

  12. #172
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    not trying to sound rude, but it seems you are making excuses. if survivability is an issue for you than how about running quests on a lower difficulty and using a hire? when you have gotten better at pot chugging, using skill to mitigate damage and acquired some gear than maybe your survivability will be better and can get into groups. I don't believe in just making everything an easy button because people don't want to take the time to make their characters better. if you want more power, than you have to put some effort into it. even those self sufficient cookie cutter builds had to invest in some work to get that kind of power and that's only part of it. the other part is knowing how to play that build efficiently.
    Survivability isn't an issue to me, at least not near as much as all those who are trying to "bridge my gap". I'm just pointing out how unrealistic this whole gap bridging crusade is. The game simply isn't designed for it and only by bending and contorting it will it work outside of those classes that are designed to self heal or those that, for some odd reason, have about 6 times the amount of healing they need to keep themselves up.

    As far as getting into groups goes, that's no problem as I do it in the most rational way the game offers, I type "/g who's doing what?" and hop on whichever of my characters is in the level range of whatever group doesn't already have 5 characters in it (the last spot is for the hire that makes everyone survivable).

    It's only those who choose the least rational grouping option, pugging, that have to worry about nobody watching their back because in that environment nobody has much incentive to.

  13. #173
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Survivability isn't an issue to me, at least not near as much as all those who are trying to "bridge my gap"..
    Damn that gap seems to be in high demand . we all going to roll on who gets to bridge it?

  14. #174
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    It's only those who choose the least rational grouping option, pugging, that have to worry about nobody watching their back because in that environment nobody has much incentive to.
    Yep, all those new players we want and need to join our game (and stick around for a while) are seeking to meet people in the least rational way. Because, you know, they all start out guilded. Vet players never grow tired of the drama that occasionally develops within their guild, and want to go shopping for a new guild. Vet players who want to run with the newbs are using the least rational means of doing so - pugging.

    There's tons of reasons why pugging isn't "the least rational grouping option."
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #175
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Yep, all those new players we want and need to join our game (and stick around for a while) are seeking to meet people in the least rational way. Because, you know, they all start out guilded. Vet players never grow tired of the drama that occasionally develops within their guild, and want to go shopping for a new guild. Vet players who want to run with the newbs are using the least rational means of doing so - pugging.

    There's tons of reasons why pugging isn't "the least rational grouping option."
    I'd rate running with just a hire a step above pugging. If I can't trust someone to at least try to watch my back, I really have no desire to run with them. Hires try and guildies who don't don't tend to be, my anyway, guildies for much longer. That is regardless of class, most of my guild groups are healed by hires, but everyone is expected to watch for each other first and think about quest objectives after. Self healing is all fine and good and I have several characters that are pretty good at it and healing others while they are at it, but it is neither expected nor essential in my book.

  16. #176
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I'd rate running with just a hire a step above pugging. If I can't trust someone to at least try to watch my back, I really have no desire to run with them. Hires try and guildies who don't don't tend to be, my anyway, guildies for much longer. That is regardless of class, most of my guild groups are healed by hires, but everyone is expected to watch for each other first and think about quest objectives after. Self healing is all fine and good and I have several characters that are pretty good at it and healing others while they are at it, but it is neither expected nor essential in my book.
    Yeah I know what you're saying. If I'm running with a bunch of people who can't even watch my back by bringing some pots, wands, or scrolls and are burning through spell points until I have nothing left I'd be better off with a hireling that can throw me some heals while healing themselves.

    Occasionally though for the company and the challenge I'll suck it up and take one for the team.

    If you're running with hirelings and using them to heal each other and yourselves you're basically running the same way, only with an outside source of healing, as a group that is self healing. It is expected and essential that someone in the group can heal. As long as you can rely on someone being able to do that job then self healing isn't necessary. If this is your point then you are correct.

    In a pug I won't rely on another for that if I can help it. I have no idea what they are capable of handling. It's a difficult job and placing it all in a single person's hands to me is irresponsible. When first starting off as a cleric I woudn't join a group without another cleric in it. (long time ago before fvs, PREs, auras etc.) Without someone there to get their back a healer is completely at the mercy of the group and not only can't you heal stupid, stupid can kill you, the whole party, and then blame you for it. I will not go in without pots, wands, scrolls, or whatever I have the ability to use to help out any divine in the group.
    Last edited by Orratti; 07-02-2013 at 01:23 AM.

  17. #177
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    My way is only the right way for me and those who play like me. Unlike those who support the premise of this thread who feel their way is the only way and getting everyone on line to playing like they do is some kind of essential service.

    You see I don't RP with my hire, I just pace my play at what they can handle and if they can't we just start again. I also don't see the point in "piking a run", but then I don't stress over xp, it'll still be there when I get to playing that content. What I don't like is grouping with those who don't seem to want to be there and are just running content to get it over with. Their lack of interest shows in their game play.
    You have a deep misconception of "those not having fun BYOH players" but since I now know that you will stick with it whatever could be said, then allright. Just know that you are the one that doesn't understand my way of enjoying the game while I totally understand yours. If I would come to express my thoughts like you did by saying that we can't have fun and interest then it would be along the line of: You're a noob and will stay that way forever because of a stubborn mentality.

    That's what I think deep inside. But I don't care because I understand it's a game and you enjoy it the way you want to for the reasons you want to. That will not affect me, neither perturbate me. Do I prentend that you can't have fun or must be getting tired of dying again and again? Nope because we don't get the fun out of the same place.

    Now, your turn to make a little effort to see what's on the other side.

    "Piking a run" in the way I said it mean no one has pressure and they are free to deal with their life on the side at the same time they play (or get exp and stick with the group at least). And why can they do that (I know you don't care but...)? Because everyone can and will take care of the others. Or at least 1 piker doesn't mean a failure. Since we can usually kind of see through someone intentions, if it seems like a legit reason, then do what you gotta do.

    The RPing with your hireling comment was a way to show how it's easy to exaggerate without knowing as you did. I don't really think you /dance with the hireling listening to FF Victory song. Because I don't think you are stupid or not enjoying yourself or whatever. I think we have different things we want to get out of the game.

    Have a good one.

    Edit: I feel like even if you would like to get better you couldn't because you're scared of becoming what you loathe. That is sturbborness.

    Edit2: Kind of took a second read at your posts and I might have derailed a bunch. Still, your view on how the game has been designed to be enjoyed and on BYOH groups is so flawed, you really need to see what's going on, on the other side.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-02-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  18. #178
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I'd rate running with just a hire a step above pugging. If I can't trust someone to at least try to watch my back, I really have no desire to run with them. Hires try and guildies who don't don't tend to be, my anyway, guildies for much longer. That is regardless of class, most of my guild groups are healed by hires, but everyone is expected to watch for each other first and think about quest objectives after. Self healing is all fine and good and I have several characters that are pretty good at it and healing others while they are at it, but it is neither expected nor essential in my book.
    Well good on you mate! You run in small, closed circles with like minded individuals; that's an excellent way to enjoy the game.

    It is also however, not the only way. Although this thread has traveled far and wide from it's original premise, the gist of which was that BYOH can be as much of a hindrance as it can be a benefit to forming groups, and that is the "gap that needs bridging." Just because this seems to be a non-issue for you, doesn't mean it's a non-issue for anyone else. I personally like "meeting" new people, while at the same time having opportunities come accross old friends; so I pug almost exclusively, only really turning to guild/channel groups for raids.

    Oh and btw, I hate hirelings. The only thing I've ever seen them try is my patients.

    So, you see, I have something of a vested interest in this subject. Personally, I prefer the "balanced party" approach. That's just how I think multi-player Dungeons & Dragons was meant to be. I also realize that even in the (lol mythical?) perfect party, carp happens; healers die, dc, get CC'd etc. so having self sufficiency even in a balanced parry is a good thing. Also, I prefer questing to "waiting to fill" and IP BYOH negates that wait time. Fwiw: I only post byoh if on a life that can't heal, even my pally can party heal when needed in a pinch - just ran an all melee at level Elite Running w/Devils and -while not deathless- we were successful; again all melee, only half of us self healing.

    So while you come yammering your opinions about the value byoh, pugging and the players who do so, you'll understand if I sumerily dismiss those opinions as irrelevant since you neither byoh nor pug. You like running in closed (/g what's up?) circles with hirelings. I like forming groups through the lfm panel without hirelings. As "bridging the byoh gap" is neither of interest to you nor of relevance to your playstyle, why are you in the discussion at all?
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-02-2013 at 01:56 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  19. #179
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Well good on you mate! You run in small, closed circles with like minded individuals; that's an excellent way to enjoy the game.

    It is also however, not the only way. Although this thread has traveled far and wide from it's original premise, the gist of which was that BYOH can be as much of a hindrance as it can be a benefit to forming groups, and that is the "gap that needs bridging." Just because this seems to be a non-issue for you, doesn't mean it's a non-issue for anyone else. I personally like "meeting" new people, while at the same time having opportunities come accross old friends; so I pug almost exclusively, only really turning to guild/channel groups for raids.

    Oh and btw, I hate hirelings. The only thing I've ever seen them try is my patients.

    So, you see, I have something of a vested interest in this subject. Personally, I prefer the "balanced party" approach. That's just how I think multi-player Dungeons & Dragons was meant to be. I also realize that even in the (lol mythical?) perfect party, carp happens; healers die, dc, get CC'd etc. so having self sufficiency even in a balanced parry is a good thing. Also, I prefer questing to "waiting to fill" and IP BYOH negates that wait time. Fwiw: I only post byoh if on a life that can heal, even my pally can party heal when needed in a pinch - just ran an all melee at level Elite Running w/Devils and -while not deathless- we were successful; again all melee, only half of us self healing.

    So while you come yammering your opinions about the value byoh, pugging and the players who do so, you'll understand if I sumerily dismiss those opinions as irrelevant since you neither byoh nor pug. You like running in closed (/g what's up?) circles with hirelings. I like forming groups through the lfm panel without hirelings. As "bridging the byoh gap" is neither of interest to you nor of relevance to your playstyle, why are you in the discussion at all?
    I guess we are seeing two different threads then. Because from the way I read the OP and the posts supporting it is that if you aren't playing the soloing in a group BYOH style, you are doing it wrong and need your gap bridged.

    Oh and I've run pretty much all the heroic elite content in the game with hires for healing, this game really isn't that hard if you aren't in to big a hurry. That said, I wouldn't try epic elite with hires and even epic hard seems to push their limits at times.

  20. #180
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I remember many more pugging divines before a rash of "divine abuse" swept the game.
    The worst cases of abuse my divines have ever received always came from the anti-byoh crowd. My guild has a lot of players with real life distractions (many of them refer to them as children). A BYOH focus means that in a guild group, any player can bail, any time... and everyone understands that real life is more important than a game. This freedom is only applied to guild groups. The guild charter clearly indicates that pugging should be done when the player has time to do so.

    Playing my divine, I've had rude tells for posting byoh's. Got rejected from a raid once over my guild name with a snarky comment about a BYOH raid healer. So I moved on. I'm playing my other characters, and it has been over six months since I did a raid or pug with my divine.

    So the next time there is a post tearing down divine players... just consider what group suffers more when the divines go on strike...

Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload