Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 678910111213 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 241
  1. #181
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You don't get the favor till later that's true, and I'd love to see the smaller sf pots dropped down a tier because of it, but cure serious pots can get you to level 12 pretty well, and while heal scrolls are the most common to be umd'd nothing stops someone from using cure wands before they can heal scroll. You combine that with some class and race hamp you can heal up well even before you can heal scroll with options in the game as long as you don't pull an entire room onto yourself.
    Having a lower tier of SF pots is actually a pretty good idea. Yeah, you can get to lvl 12 on CSW, no argument there. It’s after lvl 12 where the problems show up, definitely.

  2. #182
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Having a lower tier of SF pots is actually a pretty good idea. Yeah, you can get to lvl 12 on CSW, no argument there. It’s after lvl 12 where the problems show up, definitely.
    I agree 100%. CSW is enough till lvl 12. 14 or 15 if you push it and are careful. About level 16, there is a huge need for something with more healing power.

  3. #183
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    My pally's cure serious wounds heals 400 HP for 22 SP, which is clearly obtainable if you build for it. That's plentiful healing, and is not in any way limited to casual. (On epic elite, if I ever played it, that would become 400 HP for 32 spell points.)
    Ok, post the specs of the build. I'd like to see it.

    I have little doubt that a pally can be spec-ed for decent self-healing. However, that comes at a cost somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    No, I am not kidding you. An alt that is poorly played, poorly geared, or both, is not representative of the self-sufficiency of that class.
    That's not the point.

    Poorly played is a relative concept. What works in solo often times does NOT work in a PUG. Stealth is often an unheard of term in a group run, where chaos and whirling meat-cleavers rule. Your point is that the self-sufficiency of a class is not representative of how it is played, but that is totally and completely false. In a group setting you don’t get to play your toon like you’d prefer. Otherwise, you’ll be booted.

    That’s the dynamic of a group.

    And gear is directly tied to how you play your toon.

    If the common strategy on the end fight of a Shroud (prime example here) is for the melees to surround and pin harry while the casters and ranged toons pick him off from afar, and you have a melee toon, you’d better be prepared to fulfill that role. Otherwise, you’re not doing your job. So you’d better be geared accordingly. That usually means taking more punishment than you dish out.

    Self-healing is directly tied to playstyle. And playstyle often has to vary because a) not all quests are the same, and b) not all mandatory combat situations will fit your preferred playstyle and gear setup.

  4. #184
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Ok, post the specs of the build. I'd like to see it.

    I have little doubt that a pally can be spec-ed for decent self-healing. However, that comes at a cost somewhere.
    Well, human ranger self hjeals for what ? 250 - 300.
    Cure serious is 3d6+6+15, so 32 average ?
    120 devo
    80 enhancements
    75 emp hjeal makes .... 120

    1.3 gloves
    1.2 bracers
    1.1 ship
    1.3 human .... 267
    Hotd is 30% ? So with max of 39 from csw that would be ~ 420.
    What works in solo often times does NOT work in a PUG.
    But things you learn while soloing are invaluable and makes you much better player and more pleasant to group with.
    Especially always keeping an eye on your own health AKA don't do stupid **** ( or do that if you have toon/gear/experience for that)
    If the common strategy on the end fight of a Shroud (prime example here) is for the melees to surround and pin harry while the casters and ranged toons pick him off from afar, and you have a melee toon, you’d better be prepared to fulfill that role. Otherwise, you’re not doing your job. So you’d better be geared accordingly. That usually means taking more punishment than you dish out.
    Noone is disputing byoh for raids. If you have 6 con item, toughness, heavy fort, appropriate weapons for Harry/portals ( no stupid shield for God's sake ), do your puzzle, run water, blow every boost, ability in 1 round and don't beg for every bloody thing at every portal, ~ 30 reflex and 30 resist ( umd fire shield is a plus, but hey noone does elite Shroud at level anymore, new folks are such pansies ) and you still DIE, then yes you can call your hjealer names

  5. #185
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Yeah my paladin can hit close to those numbers as well.........even when he was a ranger last life his csw was hitting for 200+ this was back at level 20 cap and stuff though, as a ranger could solo tank/self heal on jailor/suulo in tod on hard, even managed elite with no outside help but torc con-opt helped there.......yes this was back in pajama tanking days. But on the pally ive solo healed while tanking either the reaver or the dracolich in epic hard fall of truth yeah I know its not EE but the party was a little supprised and happy that they didnt need to devote much/any resources to keeping me up. I only had trouble when I had a bunch of trash on me as well as the one of those bosses.

    But back to the ranger first life, the self healing was worthwhile even undergeared as a first life charactor I was able to keep myself up and even throw others a cure, when I got my torc and other gear it was like christmas, use to solo farm hard/elite amarath to get greensteel mats for my alts on that toon. I shake my head at those who do not bother to have any self healing on bards,rangers, paladins, especially now with the helpful stuff from EDs, its really nice to not have a wipe because the jhealer dced, or to run into a quest at any level without having to wait hours for a healer, if thats how people like to play their bard/ranger/paladin no self heals well then I guess thats fine but I don't think i would want to run with those people much because its not so much a trade off to get good self healing on those classes and it makes a real big difference in a lot of situations.
    The solution is all n00bs should play rangers.

    You win the thread.

  6. #186
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Well, human ranger self hjeals for what ? 250 - 300.
    Cure serious is 3d6+6+15, so 32 average ?
    120 devo
    80 enhancements
    75 emp hjeal makes .... 120

    1.3 gloves
    1.2 bracers
    1.1 ship
    1.3 human .... 267
    Hotd is 30% ? So with max of 39 from csw that would be ~ 420.
    Sounds about right..

    Mine has 3 pally PLs, 190 (90 item, 20 pot, 80 enhancements) Spell power, 30+30+20+10 amp . . . I'm seeing like 350ish CSW.

  7. #187
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The solution is all n00bs should play rangers.

    You win the thread.
    Are you new ? 90% newbies are elven rangers.
    That's why you don't pug harbour/play a drinking game, take a shot if unknown pure ranger that click your lfm is awful.

  8. #188
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Are you new ? 90% newbies are elven rangers.
    That's why you don't pug harbour/play a drinking game, take a shot if unknown pure ranger that click your lfm is awful.
    That's not entirely fair to the class, 90% of players period are awful, we just have lower expectations of classes like barbarians.

  9. #189
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Are you new ? 90% newbies are elven rangers.
    That's why you don't pug harbour/play a drinking game, take a shot if unknown pure ranger that click your lfm is awful.
    That's not entirely fair to the class, 90% of players period are awful, we just have lower expectations of classes like barbarians.

    In all seriousness it's a good class for a newer player, they are just typically player wrong.

  10. #190
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    I leave my FVS mostly parked these days, but not because of the BYOH or anti-BYOH crowd. I just got a lot of the gear I wanted (minus the ridiculous to farm stuff), pulled Twillight on my 2nd CITW run, upgraded it, got other great gear via MoTU, pretty much EE'd everything there was, so what's left to do except TR it, which frankly doesn't provide enough benefits right now to make it worth it since I'm still having fun playing my rogue/monk/sorc to acquire better gear for them.

    Haven't even flagged for FoT on the FVS. Just don't see the gear there that I have to have for it, and certainly since I can't trade anything to my other toons, I'm not incentivised to heal it.

    Turbine wants more parked healers to make a pugging return, they need to lighten up on the BtCoA on raid loot. I have zero reason to even be in a CITW on that toon anymore. Why, so I can put everything up for someone to roll on?

    I'd gladly start pugging with my healer again if Turbine put some real carrots out there worth chasing.

  11. #191
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Turbine wants more parked healers to make a pugging return . . .
    There's lots of reason for this. offensive casting FvS took a huge hit with the saves insanity of U16 and few ant to just be healbots.

    There was always an unwritten rule that nobody would complain about FvS being borderline OP (except Shade) because it was of the understanding that they would be healing people as well as killing the BLEEP out of stuff. Making DC-casting borderline useless has upset this balance.

  12. #192
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I leave my FVS mostly parked these days, but not because of the BYOH or anti-BYOH crowd. I just got a lot of the gear I wanted (minus the ridiculous to farm stuff), pulled Twillight on my 2nd CITW run, upgraded it, got other great gear via MoTU, pretty much EE'd everything there was, so what's left to do except TR it, which frankly doesn't provide enough benefits right now to make it worth it since I'm still having fun playing my rogue/monk/sorc to acquire better gear for them.

    Haven't even flagged for FoT on the FVS. Just don't see the gear there that I have to have for it, and certainly since I can't trade anything to my other toons, I'm not incentivised to heal it.

    Turbine wants more parked healers to make a pugging return, they need to lighten up on the BtCoA on raid loot. I have zero reason to even be in a CITW on that toon anymore. Why, so I can put everything up for someone to roll on?

    I'd gladly start pugging with my healer again if Turbine put some real carrots out there worth chasing.
    I'd say make more stuff btcoa and get rid of btcoe entirely but make sure a competent loot designer puts in loot for every class/roll so that everyone has a reason to run it, unlike the trash divines have been given the last two raids.

  13. #193
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There's lots of reason for this. offensive casting FvS took a huge hit with the saves insanity of U16 and few ant to just be healbots.

    There was always an unwritten rule that nobody would complain about FvS being borderline OP (except Shade) because it was of the understanding that they would be healing people as well as killing the BLEEP out of stuff. Making DC-casting borderline useless has upset this balance.
    Right, they've provided few good carrots. I already got the few I wanted.

  14. #194
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I'd say make more stuff btcoa and get rid of btcoe entirely but make sure a competent loot designer puts in loot for every class/roll so that everyone has a reason to run it, unlike the trash divines have been given the last two raids.
    That reason doesn't work for group healing capable toons once you've acquired what you want for that toon. I'm more than happy to bring my FVS if I can trade something I'm chasing for another toon, to that toon I have.

  15. #195
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    That reason doesn't work for group healing capable toons once you've acquired what you want for that toon. I'm more than happy to bring my FVS if I can trade something I'm chasing for another toon, to that toon I have.
    Funny thing about that is that pre u14 tod, chrono, ext didn't have those problems, though i guess seals/shards are bta, bta might be acceptable for some things but btcoe is a cancer on mmos.

  16. #196
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Playing my divine, I've had rude tells for posting byoh's.
    And that's understandable. People looking to pug may not be toons capable of being their own healer in the given quest. The concept that you're a divine, in the group, telling people to heal themselves, means they have to hope another healer joins. Why exactly would they want to run with you at all in that case? What are you offering to a group?

    The problem with the BYOH mindset is it basically says screw the group, I'm here for my xp with no regard for the rest of you, take care of yourselves. That shouldn't be the basis on which people consent to group, and if people could solo it and be their own healer one would wonder why they are looking for a group at all. Certainly it's mystifying to me why you would find it strange that people looking for a group for a quest would hope for healing from a divine player in the group.

  17. #197
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Sounds about right..

    Mine has 3 pally PLs, 190 (90 item, 20 pot, 80 enhancements) Spell power, 30+30+20+10 amp . . . I'm seeing like 350ish CSW.
    Uhhhh...guys?

    The point I was trying to make is that first-lifers don't have the gear, because it takes quite a bit of time to farm. Hence they are going to have a whole host of issues. Part of healing amp is gear.

    Likewise, part of healing amp is racial. So now we're limiting all pallies are Human or at least half-elf.

    Devotion item is a no-brainer, though it can be hard to slot, especially if you are melee where displacement, protection, AC, PRR, DR, false life, and heavy fort all need to have a spot . And if it a swappable item, that doesn’t work well in a protracted fight.

    You might get a 10% healing amp item with GS or Dragon-touched armor. This assumes that a first lifer is going to know what to make for his first GS item, and gear it appropriately. Usually, a melee goes for a weapon., or if they are kinda cagy they go for a smoke item for the displacement. Either way, it takes a lot of grind to get.

    And there are no past-lives.

    HotD, if I recall, has 30% healing amp at cap. I don’t think I was seeing that kind of boost. I could be wrong.

    So until you have all this wonderful gear, and all of these past lives, I’m seeing a big issue with some of the numbers being presented here for a decent chunk of the playerbase. Now granted, when I ran my first pally, these were all of the same problems I ran into. It is much easier now that I’ve had two or more bites at the apple when it comes to acquiring gear, and was able to plan out my next life for better heal stats, but that’s after I ran from lvl 1 to 20 with numbers nowhere near what you’re claiming they should be.

    I think that many of the people posting on the forum work in a bubble, because one of the keys to many builds here are past-lives. That doesn’t help your average player who is maybe on their first or second life, and doesn’t run quests for items until ransack takes over.

  18. #198
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quite frankly first-life Melees SHOULD be human. Period.

    You can't get any amp unless you are until level 20. and this 30% is really nice.

    After seeing all the whining on this I'm now of the mind of screw the mooks who can't heal themselves, they aren't worth the trouble anyway if they are too stupid to figure it out.

  19. #199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Ok, post the specs of the build. I'd like to see it.
    It's been posted publicly for a while now. It's linked in my signature under Evasion Paladin. I do the self-heal breakdown in post 2 or 3. (Looks like my pally averages 376 per cure serious, not 400. I see a lot of 400+ numbers, though, so it "feels" like 400.)

    My actual pally has 1 past life, which was done because his first life was a 28pt build and I wanted to get to 34pt. I only mention this because you thought I felt 28pt pallies weren't viable. My very first alt ever was a 28pt pally, who I got to cap, played a few epic (enough to get 20 tokens) and tr'ed him back into the same build, the one linked in my signature.

    Poorly played is a relative concept. What works in solo often times does NOT work in a PUG.
    Not sure what you mean here. I play the same solo, in pugs, in guild runs, and in raids. I was never a fan of stealth, though.

    Self-healing is directly tied to playstyle. And playstyle often has to vary because a) not all quests are the same, and b) not all mandatory combat situations will fit your preferred playstyle and gear setup.
    Yes, self-healing is indeed tied to playstyle. That same playstyle serves me well solo, in pugs, in guild runs, and in raids.

  20. #200
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Self-healing is directly tied to playstyle. And playstyle often has to vary because a) not all quests are the same, and b) not all mandatory combat situations will fit your preferred playstyle and gear setup.
    I've been thinking about this. Please name one situation where being able to heal yourself without a hireling or player divine is detrimental. Being able to self heal when things go badly results in a stronger character every single time as you will still have a toon that does 80-95% of a full dps barb, and possibly even higher if you have multi-shot and ed's. I can't think of a single time where being able to heal myself was a negative contribution.

Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 678910111213 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload