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  1. #1
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    Default Fix Hirelings or Remove Them Completely

    Seriously. Every time you update the game in any way, the hirelings become more and more useless. I'm pretty tired of a hireling standing there watching me die, not casting any healing spells, but if I put him on stand your ground, it runs off to fight and get killed all the time.

    Now, I'm not saying that you're sabotaging the hirelings on purpose (even if I do believe it), but it's getting ridiculous. No, that's not right. It's getting downright stupid, with a seeming helping of incompetence.

    So please, either fix the hirelings, or just take them out completely.

  2. #2
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    May I suggest, if you find that hirelings are detrimental to your questing fun, that you simply choose not to use them rather than asking for them to be taken out of the game.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
    Seriously. Every time you update the game in any way, the hirelings become more and more useless. I'm pretty tired of a hireling standing there watching me die, not casting any healing spells, but if I put him on stand your ground, it runs off to fight and get killed all the time.

    Now, I'm not saying that you're sabotaging the hirelings on purpose (even if I do believe it), but it's getting ridiculous. No, that's not right. It's getting downright stupid, with a seeming helping of incompetence.

    So please, either fix the hirelings, or just take them out completely.
    They are a poor substitute for a player... however I bet 95% of the hireling use is just a healer... and post 20 rogues.

    My 3 'fixes' for clerics.

    1) Stay means stay... like rooted to the ground. Cast if in range, or just stand there and die... stay means stay.
    2) You heal based on hitpoints lost, not % lost.
    3) You can remove/cure the whole party, not just the guy that hired you.

  4. #4
    Community Member Dhalgren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zillee View Post
    May I suggest, if you find that hirelings are detrimental to your questing fun, that you simply choose not to use them rather than asking for them to be taken out of the game.
    Please, try to keep your calm and rational solutions to yourself. How are we to work up a nice frothy rage if you keep interrupting with reasonable thoughts?

    For shame.
    Heatherx (Completionist--honest, no stones)
    Toryen Warchanter 24 ~ Treslyn Cleric 26 ~ Lohikaerme Druid 24 ~ Khenshii Monk 28

    Heroes of Light and Darkness ~ Argonnessen

  5. #5
    Community Member GlassJaw's Avatar
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    *shrug* I like the hirelings.

    Maybe you need to give them a better share of loot?

  6. #6
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
    Seriously. Every time you update the game in any way, the hirelings become more and more useless. I'm pretty tired of a hireling standing there watching me die, not casting any healing spells, but if I put him on stand your ground, it runs off to fight and get killed all the time.

    Now, I'm not saying that you're sabotaging the hirelings on purpose (even if I do believe it), but it's getting ridiculous. No, that's not right. It's getting downright stupid, with a seeming helping of incompetence.

    So please, either fix the hirelings, or just take them out completely.
    Fix them.

    Don't remove them.

    I've gotten pretty good at manipulating the hires. Not saying that I don't still kill my fair share of them, just that they have their uses even with the problems that they have.
    /sigh

  7. #7
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    i figured out a work around when hires stand there and pretend they forgot to heal for a second. its called button mashing. works every time.

    i will say that when you have them stand their ground they don't know what that means. one of the most annoying things about them when you want them parked nearby, but they want to run into the room or around the corner and agro everything.

  8. #8
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    They are a poor substitute for a player... however I bet 95% of the hireling use is just a healer... and post 20 rogues.
    I regularly use one when "soloing" or grouping, even on the monk. It just saves me the effort of having to check my HP bar quite so often. Doesn't mean that's the right thing to do, but if the hireling can top up my HPs while I'm cleaving mobs, I'm happy...

    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    My 3 'fixes' for clerics.

    1) Stay means stay... like rooted to the ground. Cast if in range, or just stand there and die... stay means stay.
    Tell them to stand still AND be passive, and that's what they generally do. While not passive, they will react to things that get a little close or they can help out with according to their orders. It might be nice if they didn't take standing still and defending as license to run off at things we haven't encountered yet though. Having said that, in general I'll only park them away from trouble if the trouble is something I cannot aggro away from them, like a pool of acid they like to stand in, or a trap.

    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    2) You heal based on hitpoints lost, not % lost.
    Yes please, though it may be already the case. Might be good if we could switch them between those modes though.

    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    3) You can remove/cure the whole party, not just the guy that hired you.
    My hirelings regularly toss heals at whoever needs them. They're especially good at keeping pets alive, compared to divine player characters who forget pets routinely. It's rare that I see a hireling that doesn't toss a remove spell that they carry if someone has a condition. IF they carry it. Some of them also toss mass cures/heals at very appropriate moments. The only issue I have with their heal/cure spells is they tend not to use them as an attack against undead. You can tell them to do it though. There are bigger problems with multiple hirelings in the group as they typically decide to cast their cure/heal spells on the same targets at the same time, thus wasting a lot of sp...

    The only problem I regularly encounter with a hireling is if I've dragged it through a wilderness into a quest, it may decide it won't cast any spells on command within the quest until they've taken the time to have an epiphany. Sometimes the quest is over by then. Parking a hireling far enough away from a trap such that when you summon it to you it effectively teleports past it is just the price of using a non-evasion type around such dangers.

    Bottom line for me though is that if you seen an AI do something it clearly shouldn't (or refusing to do something it should) then bug report it and move on... otherwise learn to love them despite their deficiencies.
    Goe ahed... korekt mah spelin'.

  9. #9

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    I recently returned for a two year hiatus and let me tell you; back then hirelings were stupid. Now I've returned only to find that they are even dumber! How could they get worse FFS!?
    Katavina Leagond - Cannith

  10. #10
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    1) Stay means stay... like rooted to the ground.
    They need to be on "no following" + "passive" (aka Buddha-stance). Then they do indeed nothing untill you give them fresh commands.

    "no following" + "agressive" is for when youwant them to guard an area.

    "no following" + "Defensive" and selecting a target for them to defend is for when you want them to guard an object/NSC.
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

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  11. #11
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meetch1972 View Post
    The only problem I regularly encounter with a hireling is if I've dragged it through a wilderness into a quest, it may decide it won't cast any spells on command within the quest until they've taken the time to have an epiphany. Sometimes the quest is over by then.
    OK First of all:
    Swords = Aggressive
    Shield = Defensive
    Buddha = Passive

    Now I have a workaround for Instance Hopping and Hireling unresponsiveness that works maybe 90% of the time:

    Firstly I ALWAYS have Hirelings {all of them} on Swords!
    SO: When moving between instances - Say from Vale of Twilight to Ritual Sacrifice for example - I switch hire from Swords to Shield then back to Swords THEN I target Hire and get them to use an activated ability on themselves.

    This tends to wake them up.
    Unfortunately many hires have NO abilities of use for this workaround - Most Melees incl. Panther/Owlbear.
    For those - Just make sure you target an enemy early and have them Cleave etc.

    Lastly an example from yesterday:
    I was running The Missing Chain on hard for end reward {solo with FS Hire Merenon Lior - Lvl 18 - and Lvl 17 Owlbear}.
    Merenon had maybe 3 times the kills of the Owlbear after 3 quests {I did not enter In the Flesh as was too tired}.
    Owlbear stands back too often - Merenon charges into Battle whenever possible.

    I've found in my 3 years playing this game that this is an issue with ALL Melee Hires:
    Clerics and FavSouls seem to have been given FAR BETTER AI than Melees BUT this is because they've been given the MELEES AI!

    My recommendation to the Devs =
    Fix Melee Hirelings to attack mobs on sight like Clerics/Souls do at the moment!
    Fix Clerics/Souls to NOT do this!

  12. #12
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Hey! you leave albus alone! If you want you can chuck the other ones into the fire though.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Hey! you leave albus alone! If you want you can chuck the other ones into the fire though.
    Yeah the 20 fvs is just about perfect.

    Most of the others, especially post 20 is STUPID!!!! Like 22 is okay, 21 is HORRIBLE, 24 is an idiot unless on aggressive.

    I think stay and heal should be STAY and heal, I'll move to him... i don't need him walking 2' to heal me.

    I know you can passive/stay to turn them into a lamp post.

  14. #14
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
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    The devs claim that each hireling is different - and I have to agree that some are MUCH more functional than others. I think all it would take is removing the 'stand there and pick your nose and watch me die' programming that makes some of them 'unique.' I have a list of hirelings that seem inflicted, if the devs feel like changing them
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  15. #15
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    I hate the darn things and I cringe everytime someone suggests using one or more of them but not for removing them as I can just not use them or try to get them killed if they annoy me(they usually do) Others like them so while I hate they added them they should be fixed not removed or even temporarliy disabled as people can use them some until and if they are fixed.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  16. #16
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Sure, Albus has stood by and watched me die a few times over the years, but I have stood by and watched him die far more often. Plus, I don't even let him loot the chests.

    If anyone has a legitimate gripe here, it's Albus.

  17. #17
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Some hirelings seem to work better than others. I would rather have them around than not, though, so I don't support removal.
    There is no free lunch.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    Please, try to keep your calm and rational solutions to yourself. How are we to work up a nice frothy rage if you keep interrupting with reasonable thoughts?

    For shame.
    Seconded.

    I was about to post something doom-ish. But NOOOOOO!

  19. #19
    Community Member rangerluna375's Avatar
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    The only problem with hirelings, is that some folks expect them to be more than what they actually are.

    They are not going to be as smart as another player. If you expect them to behave anywhere close to what a real player does, of course you will be disappointed.
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  20. #20
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    Most important is an absolute stand still but still act within your range mode. There are lots of quests where moving around is very bad. As a human, you may grant me the right to give exact commands and blame myself if that's been a bad command. Don't try to have the AI outsmart me all the time. Rarely works currently.

    If the current mode is deemed important, add a 3rd one which makes them stay rooted but still use their skills when set to passive/active according to those modes.

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