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  1. #1
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Increase the drop rates of old raids to encourage running them

    The problem is that as DDO grows as a game and new raids are introduced, old raids are left behind and forgotten. The worst of which are raids requiring crafting ingredients (thinking dragontouched and alchemical armor), as there are just far to few LFMs for these raids to ever craft the item you want at an appropriate level.


    What I suggest is taking a solid look at some old raids, and DRASTICALLY increasing drop rates, or at the very least severely reducing the number of completions for a named item from 20 to 5.
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  2. #2
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    The problem is that as DDO grows as a game and new raids are introduced, old raids are left behind and forgotten. The worst of which are raids requiring crafting ingredients (thinking dragontouched and alchemical armor), as there are just far to few LFMs for these raids to ever craft the item you want at an appropriate level.


    What I suggest is taking a solid look at some old raids, and DRASTICALLY increasing drop rates, or at the very least severely reducing the number of completions for a named item from 20 to 5.
    Not signed

    Most of the old raids have very solid drop rates(Most, not all. Same with specific items), and from my experience on Argo, it's not hard to fill raids. Any raids.

    All that really needs to be done is some rethinking of the old raid loot, and a bit of a revamp to some items. Possibly dropping the ML on some items that used to be really good at endgame, but now are just not that useful; A lot of the TOD sets...

    Certain raid items need to have their drop rates drastically looked at, yes. But not ALL the old raid loot should. I don't want to run a VOD and see 8 Tharne's Goggles drop... That would just be ridiculous.

    As for DT and Alchemical, DT need a full system revamp. And We'll never get this; It's nothing but a pipe dream. And the drop rates for Alchemical stuff is pretty much perfect as is. The one thing I would like to see redone is the casting Spellpower percentages. It's kind of annoying that was could effectively be some of the best casting sticks in the game for levels 20-25 give such bad SP bonus'. This for me is the major issue keeping me form farming out a couple of awesome Alchemical Kama's for my caster.

    Personally I'd like it if they made it to where when you Tier 3 your caster stick, effectively making it an epic item the spell power bonus would get raised to 102 spellpower instead of staying at 90.

    So a Tier 3 Alchemical Kama for a cleric might look something like thisGoing Fire/Fire/Fire With Flametouched Iron)
    Tier 1
    Combustion 102
    Devotion 102
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    Superior Healing Lore

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  3. #3
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    The problem is that as DDO grows as a game and new raids are introduced, old raids are left behind and forgotten.
    Nothing really comes to my mind as particularly valuable outside of twink gear for TRing. Upgrading would also only really serve to help the TRs as Epic gear quickly outpaces the Heroic gear.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-20-2013 at 06:41 AM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member gaffneyks's Avatar
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    true no one really runs the old raids. But isn't that due to the fact that a lot of the gear is outdated?

    not sure this would fix it.

    But i guess it is worth a try.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    The problem is that as DDO grows as a game and new raids are introduced, old raids are left behind and forgotten.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    What I suggest is taking a solid look at some old raids, and DRASTICALLY increasing drop rates, or at the very least severely reducing the number of completions for a named item from 20 to 5.
    That won't fix the problem, that will make it worse. You'll have even fewer people running it if they stop running it after 5 runs instead of 20.

    The gear needs to be improved.

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    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Improve the gear, put some rare loot in all raids, tomes of fate or something else, people will run it then.

  7. #7
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Improve the gear, put some rare loot in all raids, tomes of fate or something else, people will run it then.
    This is the only way, upping drop rates(which are decent to begin with) won't work. People run raids because they need something with what's out there now you don't need what's being offered. Upping the drop rate might spike the runs for a short time but when the few people have what they want in a couple runs what then cowboy?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Nothing really comes to my mind as particularly valuable outside of twink gear for TRing. Upgrading would also only really serve to help the TRs as Epic gear quickly outpaces the Heroic gear.
    Torc? Litany? Drop rates vary quite a bit across some raids. I can run Tempest Spine and get a full set of all the named items in a couple of ransacks, and meanwhile the torc is a pipedream. At LEAST a full set of named on 20th completions for raids would be great. :/ An upgrade mechanism ala Stormreaver (esp for the Desert items) would be nice, and encourage runs.

  9. #9
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locus View Post
    Torc? Litany? Drop rates vary quite a bit across some raids. I can run Tempest Spine and get a full set of all the named items in a couple of ransacks, and meanwhile the torc is a pipedream. At LEAST a full set of named on 20th completions for raids would be great. :/ An upgrade mechanism ala Stormreaver (esp for the Desert items) would be nice, and encourage runs.
    Does http://ddowiki.com/page/Nightblade actually DROP then?

    In 3 years I've never once seen this drop!


    Twilight Forge - Seriously something's gotta be done for this raid! - My Choice - Epicify the Restless Isles!

    VoN 5/6 - Too much of the Loot {like all of it!} comes from the Raid/s - Move The less popular {obviously NOT SoS} Base Named items to VoN 1-4 so people actually get to SEE them!

    ADQ - Aaaaargh!!! - Sands Droprates are still completely and utterly insane!
    Would love for the Devs to sort Sands out....
    Some of the Epic items could be upgraded to Min Lvl 25 or Even 28
    Others could be downgraded to Min Lvl 18.
    A COMPLETE REWORK OF SANDS ITEMS & DROPRATES IS IN ORDER In my opinion!
    Oh
    AND
    BTW
    I would absolutely LOVE to see Epic Purge the Fallen Shrine!

    Abbot - Reduce Guaranteed End Reward to every 10th Run - Come on Devs...Please!
    P.S. Shield Frags and Tome Pages are still too rare - A small Boost to Drop Rate would not go amiss!

    Shroud, VoD and HoX - Simples - Epic these RAIDS! NOOOOW!!!

    Stealer of Souls - Still don't understand why this is a Quest and Not a Raid!
    A Rework to make it into a Raid {along with a going over of the Reaver's Refuge itself {worst area in DDO in my view} would seem to be in order.
    Perhaps move the Flagging Quests to Lvl 18
    Move the Raid to Lvl 20


    Reaver's Fate, Chronoscope and LoB are probably fine as is.
    MA could possibly do with a Review of Playability though!


    Tempest Spine - Seriously - BTC on Acquire IS A TERRIBLE IDEA - JUST TERRIBLE!!!

  10. #10
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locus View Post
    Torc? Litany?
    It took 40 completions for my main to gain one, 20 for one alt, and 16 for another. Once again though this is really just twink gear. Especially for anyone running Epic Elite as the enemies hit far too hard to risk trying to regain SP in this manner.

    The Litany was definitely nice in the past but I'm doubtful I would use one if I had it. A +1 Profane is only useful if your stats are odd after all.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-20-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    increasing drop rates across the board wouldn't be ideal, I don't think. we don't really want to practically give loot away just to get people to run the old raids. dropping completions from 20 to 5 would have the same affect. after people got what they wanted, they wouldn't be back. it would be easy as a high level to actually farm the heroic old raids and you don't even need a full party to do it.

    certain items do need a better drop rate, which happen to be the rarer items and the ones that players actually really would want. the rest of the loot seems to drop pretty easily, which happens to be things that players really don't care much about. ever tried to give away a Delving Suit?

    I am a firm believer that loot should match the intended level range. as DDO does grow and better loot is made available the old stuff becomes outdated and to some not worth the time for a chance at pulling something. would a Chattering Ring be worth using while leveling? sure, but Titan isn't end game anymore and a lot of people aren't level 9 and 10 for very long. people practically stopped running that raid because you don't stay in the level range very long, not worth using in high levels as you can find better and leveling to cap is the driving force in DDO that prevails over loot that isn't worth the time to some players. im all for upgrading old loot and upping the drop rates on certain raid items, but there should be focus in keeping the old raids updated to make them more appealing to players.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Does http://ddowiki.com/page/Nightblade actually DROP then?

    In 3 years I've never once seen this drop!


    Twilight Forge - Seriously something's gotta be done for this raid! - My Choice - Epicify the Restless Isles!

    Tempest Spine - Seriously - BTC on Acquire IS A TERRIBLE IDEA - JUST TERRIBLE!!!
    I personally would like to see just about anything on epic levels, even Korthos lol

    I also hate BTCoA ...I have to admit I hate btc since i like to switch and swap gears, but at least I would have the option to switch it to anther toon that would benefit from it especially if the party for the raid isn't after an item...

  13. #13
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneyks View Post
    true no one really runs the old raids. But isn't that due to the fact that a lot of the gear is outdated?

    not sure this would fix it.

    But i guess it is worth a try.
    The old loot needs a facelift, mechanics have/will changed and we have new loot that reflects that but old raid loot that is more difficult to acquire is not as good as it should be.

    The way I see it if they want new players to buy the old packs they need to be relevant and they are not. Upgrade the old raid loot (I mean the old shard/seal/scroll loot) especially when it is "epic".

    As it is now those old raids are not really worth running anymore.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I am a firm believer that loot should match the intended level range.
    I completely agree. We don't need motivation to run older raids because quite frankly they are no longer the intended end game. I would much rather see Turbine spend their resources implementing new content than going back and doing yet another revamp on Hound of Xoriat or similar just because one or two old timers feel nostalgic.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I completely agree. We don't need motivation to run older raids because quite frankly they are no longer the intended end game. I would much rather see Turbine spend their resources implementing new content than going back and doing yet another revamp on Hound of Xoriat or similar just because one or two old timers feel nostalgic.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    ...this is really just twink gear.
    ...
    The Litany was definitely nice in the past but I'm doubtful I would use one if I had it. A +1 Profane is only useful if your stats are odd after all.
    Have to disagree. It's a stacking +1 that you can't get any other way. That's useful if for your main stat, even if it does nothing for your other 5, if it gets you +1 more on your DCs.

    I have yet to see any other trinket that would make me consider taking off my Litany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Does http://ddowiki.com/page/Nightblade actually DROP then?

    In 3 years I've never once seen this drop!
    It drops. I got one a couple of days ago.

    Geoff.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I completely agree. We don't need motivation to run older raids because quite frankly they are no longer the intended end game. I would much rather see Turbine spend their resources implementing new content than going back and doing yet another revamp on Hound of Xoriat or similar just because one or two old timers feel nostalgic.
    So you prefer it as it is right now? Two raids that anyone pugs, and a handful of quests that are used for farming ED's?

    Revamping old content is far quicker than developing a whole pack, in fact a very basic loot pass can mostly can be done by Feather and whoever they have helping him (an intern perhaps?)

    If they don't try to "redo" or "reboot" them like eGH and make lots of changes they can literally have ALL the mappers doing NEW content while the loot dev polishes old raid loot and epics items to have more relevant loot. Then maybe have one mapper go through and tweak mob CR's to make it harder for 25's and then 28's to do them.

    Look at the most repeated quest in the entire game. Shroud... why is it still run so much? Because it's got loot that is still relevant, and it takes a lot of repetitions to craft the items. Yet Shroud items are becoming less and less relevant. They still manage to be relevant because 45hps + some other cool stuff on a single item is still worth a slot at 25. as is 150 to 300 sp + some other cool stuff (soon to be +6 skill boosts instead of the old stacking skill boosts). Tell me you have a caster who wont build a 150 elemental spell power +6 INT skills item (that's 6% spellcraft) item? Then of course there's the need for Cleanser because you want 45hp's on a squishy caster.

    Shroud is not discouraging, because every run you make some sort of progress, and you know you're doing 20 at least to get cleanser. You feel progress but yet the loot never becomes fully obsolete (yes I know there are people around here who claim to no longer slot GS items... so obviously it's reaching the point where even GS is becoming outmoded, but it is still sought after).

    I made a thread about this not long ago. Even if they don't epicfy all the old end game raids at least make a loot pass on them, make them all relevant, and take some coders man hours and give them all "heroic commendation" upgrades and the usual +7, red augment, increased affix, etc. upgrade path. Extend the upgrade path to allow the item to become level 28 relevant (5 or 6 upgrade tiers). Don't go crazy with new "return to" maps, or quest changes... just put all the loot on an even keel with "end game" and epic loot (Feather is supposedly already polishing epic loot as part II of the Augment change to make the epics look mlike their non epic updated counter parts). While in there, polish LOB and Marty loot (they are already becoming rare on the LFM panel) I have already ruled out an Alchemical Tower shield despite how perfectly is fits my build. I have ZERO hope of pugging enough LOB raids to get the tier 3 essences. Probably no chance of ever building one (I want it for Superior Radiance Lore plus red augment slot for 120 spell power).

  19. #19
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    So you prefer it as it is right now? Two raids that anyone pugs, and a handful of quests that are used for farming ED's?
    The key phrase is "pugs". There are plenty of raids still being run. Shroud, DQ2, VoN, HoX, VoD, etc. The issue is that these groups are generally not started up in LFMs. They start and generally fill in guild and user chats.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-21-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I bellive that a single clicky with useful, hard to get and new ability would be enough to encourage older raids runs.
    Clickies don't have to be compared with newer items for best in slot loot, they will never become obsolete.

    Imagine a 2/rest clicky with all artificers DR breaking clicky + deadly and enchant (choose 1 from list like staff from zawabis revenge) dropping from elite VoD and HoX, and suddenly, everyone and their's dog is running theese 2 old raids.

    Imagine 3/rest CL 40 (so very hard to dispel and longer duration) displacement clicky dropping from Titan.
    Add similiar haste clicky there, and we will see this raid beign run.

    Imagine a FoM clicky, imagine clicky increasing DCs and/or spellpen for few seconds, imagine clicky boosting doublestrike for 45 seconds, imagine clicky giving +20 seeker for 20 seconds, 2/rest, and all the effects devs can come up with. Place them into outdated raid loot table, and those raids will be run again.

    (extra points if clickies will be like key/pin: activate straight from inventory)

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