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  1. #1

    Default Cleric/Fighter/Rogue

    I primarily solo and currently do so with a ranger w/rogue splash. I have a cleric I currently have a trio with and plan to TR him into the combo listed above. Looking for some advice on the build below. I may not take it 100% as specced below as I'm not overly familiar with HE dellie.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
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    test3 
    Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Male
    (1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 18 Cleric) 
    Hit Points: 292
    Spell Points: 1381 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 10
    Will: 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    18
    Dexterity            10                    14
    Constitution         13                    16
    Intelligence         14                    18
    Wisdom               16                    26
    Charisma             11                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                     6
    Bluff                 4                     6
    Concentration         3                    23
    Diplomacy             4                     6
    Disable Device        6                    26
    Haggle                0                     2
    Heal                  3                    10
    Hide                  0                     2
    Intimidate            0                     2
    Jump                  6                     8
    Listen                3                     8
    Move Silently         3                     5
    Open Lock             4                     6
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     4
    Search                6                    24
    Spot                  7                    12
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                1                     3
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Wizard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
    
    
    Level 3 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Enhancement: Improved Heal I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
    
    
    Level 5 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 6 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Improved Wizard Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Heal II
    
    
    Level 7 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
    
    
    Level 8 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
    
    
    Level 9 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    
    
    Level 10 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    
    
    Level 11 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Wizard Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing II
    
    
    Level 12 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Improved Wizard Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
    
    
    Level 13 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 14 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
    Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
    
    
    Level 15 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Improved Wizard Dilettante III
    
    
    Level 16 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
    
    
    Level 17 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
    
    
    Level 18 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
    Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing III
    
    
    Level 19 (Cleric)
    
    
    Level 20 (Cleric)
    Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
    Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    I play mostly on hard or normal depending on quest difficulty. I understand this class mix isn't ideal but I want the cleric and trap skills. The level of fighter is for martial weapons and another feat (I chose power attack but open to something else if more useful). The wizard dellie is for arcane wand/scroll access.

  2. #2

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    Just to clarify, you want a battle cleric (ie: melee) who can also trap? Or do you want to be able to do some DC casting? As a general rule, you can't do both melee and DC casting effectively; you want you pick one and run with it. Regardless, a second rogue level is probably the way to go if only for evasion.

    Are you married to the idea of 18 (or at least 17) cleric levels for mass heal? Is the idea to be able to use this character as a raid healer?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Just to clarify, you want a battle cleric (ie: melee) who can also trap? Or do you want to be able to do some DC casting? As a general rule, you can't do both melee and DC casting effectively; you want you pick one and run with it. Regardless, a second rogue level is probably the way to go if only for evasion.

    Are you married to the idea of 18 (or at least 17) cleric levels for mass heal? Is the idea to be able to use this character as a raid healer?
    Basically a cleric who can melee some and handle traps. The 1 level of fighter is for martial weapons (plan to use 2h) and a feat. This would be for solo play primarily on hard or normal difficulty, I don't raid so mass heals are not a factor but I thought access to high level spells would be good. For offence I planned to use spells and/or melee, depending on situation.

    Would my casting really be that bad even though I put all level ups in wisdom and wind up with 26 wisdom before gear factored in?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drelgin View Post
    Would my casting really be that bad even though I put all level ups in wisdom and wind up with 26 wisdom before gear factored in?
    For heroic levels (1-20), not raiding, primarily solo and not elites your casting should be fine. Epics...I think you'd still be fine in epic normal but I rarely run EN so I can't say for certain one way or the other. Epic Hard would probably be too difficult dc-wise because you wouldn't be spending your feats on things like Spell Focus (necro and evocation are both important and there's 2 feats each) or Heighten. That said, if you do change your mind and run some raids having 17+ cleric levels will help with that.

    There's 2 ways you could go with this. One is what the previous poster suggested - bump the rogue levels up to 2 and go 17 cleric/2 rogue/1 fighter. The other choice would be to go with a deeper split. I'd seriously consider something like 12 cleric/7 rogue/1 fighter or 10 rogue/9 cleric/1 fighter for instance. Both of those give you far more rogue skills, you still get some divine abilities (in the first case you get to enjoy the healing aura) but they go deeper in to the rogue end of things. On either of these builds I'd give serious thought to Half Elf as the race with Monk dilettante. You'd get 20% healing amp from Half Elf and another 20% from the Monk dilettante. It's a very potent combination when combined with the aura and bursts.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drelgin View Post
    Basically a cleric who can melee some and handle traps. The 1 level of fighter is for martial weapons (plan to use 2h) and a feat. This would be for solo play primarily on hard or normal difficulty, I don't raid so mass heals are not a factor but I thought access to high level spells would be good. For offence I planned to use spells and/or melee, depending on situation.
    That's all fine, and describes a battle cleric pretty well. But your offensive spells won't be very good outside of divine punishment, which has no save.

    Would my casting really be that bad even though I put all level ups in wisdom and wind up with 26 wisdom before gear factored in?
    Yes, probably. The saves on high level heroic hard will be high enough to be an issue even without spell resistance, and many of those mobs have spell resistance too.

    Your melee is being sacrificed for casting ability, and the casting ability looks to me as if it will fall short on heroic hard.

  6. #6

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    I'm thinking maybe 12/6/2 cleric/fighter/rogue for solid melee dps, or possibly 12/6/2 cleric/rogue/pally for better saves and more skill points. Would either of those work for you?

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drelgin View Post
    Would my casting really be that bad even though I put all level ups in wisdom and wind up with 26 wisdom before gear factored in?
    The problem is you didn't take any DC-boosting feats; i.e., Heighten or Spell Focuses. You also didn't take any Spell Pen feats. This means your offensive spells will be sub-par at higher levels. I suspect you'll be fine for leveling on N/H content; but what do you plan to do when you hit 20?

  8. #8
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    I dont think Wiz dilletante is that great. It will help you out at low levels but you could eventually get enough UMD later on, and the buffs you'll get to cast last really short. If you go human, you could get the extra feat for Spell Penetration. I would also drop mental toughness for maybe greater Spell Pen or Spell focus:Evocation. If you solo a lot, a hireling cleric can Divine Vitality you for a lot of Xp + heal you, so you will have alot of sp for solo play + scrolls/wands. It gets trickier though if you are a dedicated group/raid healer. Anyway just how i would play it, goodluck

    And yeah, Heighten.. very important

    If your level ups are in Wis and you start with a 15 Str, you might not be able to use Power attack so effectively. Well maybe normal - hard, but elite, tougher. But at lvl 20 +, i think there might be some problems with that. A 15 Str with no Power attack can still do some decent damage though.
    Last edited by supott; 06-28-2013 at 12:28 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I suspect you'll be fine for leveling on N/H content; but what do you plan to do when you hit 20?
    I don't. Mobs will be essentially immune to his spells, either through spell resistance, high saves, or both, in heroic hard Mired In Kobolds, both Madness packs (those xoriat demons are rough and plentiful), Running with the Devils (soloing even on normal he won't have the dps to beat down the eladrin clerics, and their spell resistance is very high), devil assault, anything in amrath, and quite a bit of the IQ/DD chain.

    The problems will begin to manifest earlier than high level heroics, even, with duergar and drow showing up around level 9-12. Relic of a Sovereign Past would be particularly difficult.

    I would also advise going human if only for the extra skill point per level. Skill points are particularly problematic for cleric trappers, and feats are an issue for all clerics, so human has very nice synergy with what you're going for.

  10. #10

    Default Lot to think about

    Thanks folks for the great input.

    I guess I can swap out Extend for Heighten (maybe do this lev 12-14 range with free feat swap) and possibly mental toughness for something else, like spell pen. Based on the feedback it sounds like that would go a long way to addressing casting deficiencies for play at the normal or hard difficulties.. Is that a fair assessment?

    I'm also considering going the 17//2/1 cleric/rogue/fighter route (evasion rocks).

    Also, the wizard dellie was to access arcane wands & scrolls. I thought using wands like ice storm or fire wall or stoneskin, etc would add a lot of potential.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drelgin View Post
    I guess I can swap out Extend for Heighten (maybe do this lev 12-14 range with free feat swap) and possibly mental toughness for something else, like spell pen. Based on the feedback it sounds like that would go a long way to addressing casting deficiencies for play at the normal or hard difficulties.
    It would help, certainly, but it wouldn't address spell penetration issues.

    I'm also considering going the 17//2/1 cleric/rogue/fighter route (evasion rocks)
    It does indeed.

    Also, the wizard dellie was to access arcane wands & scrolls. I thought using wands like ice storm or fire wall or stoneskin, etc would add a lot of potential.
    Not attack spells, no. Arcane dilletante/umd is primarily for buffs and convenience. (fire shield, greater heroism, teleport, invisibility)

  12. #12

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    Not attack spells, no. Arcane dilletante/umd is primarily for buffs and convenience. (fire shield, greater heroism, teleport, invisibility)[/QUOTE]

    Ellis, are you saying with a wiz dellie I would not be able to use say, a wand of ice storm or fire wall? Those spells you mentioned were good also but I thought I'd be able to use any wand/scroll as long as I had sufficient cast level (hence why I was going to max out on the wiz dellie)

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drelgin View Post
    Ellis, are you saying with a wiz dellie I would not be able to use say, a wand of ice storm or fire wall? Those spells you mentioned were good also but I thought I'd be able to use any wand/scroll as long as I had sufficient cast level (hence why I was going to max out on the wiz dellie)
    Oh, you definitely can. I don't think they would be particularly useful, though, since you'd have no spell power or metamagics boosting them.

    EDIT: I suppose the wand & scroll mastery line helps them, but I imagine it's still pretty poor overall. Even still, just so you know you can purchase wands of ice storm in the Twelve.

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