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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default Devs - come clean on the to-hit formula

    What is it really? After a year I don't believe for one second it's . . .

    Monster’s chance to hit: (Monster’s Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target’s Armor Class * 2)

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class

    What is it really? If it was the above AC would be a hell of a lot more useful in EE and less useful in Heroic.

  2. #2
    Community Member little_me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    What is it really? After a year I don't believe for one second it's . . .

    Monster’s chance to hit: (Monster’s Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target’s Armor Class * 2)

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class

    What is it really? If it was the above AC would be a hell of a lot more useful in EE and less useful in Heroic.
    I'm not so sure. lets assume "good" AC would be what? 80? 100? and monster would have same attack bonus as CR? (probably a lot more but we digress)

    so.. EE or something like that, CR 35 monster (guess)

    (35+10.5)/(100*2)=45.5/200=22.75% chance to hit (or 0.2275)

    lets assume you get 20 points more of AC? (so 120 total)
    45.5/240=18.96% (or 0.18958333333) so.. not a big difference compared to how hard that 20 more points is to get. 3 hits less for each 100 they take on you?

    so.. 20 points less AC? (so 80 only)
    45.5/160=28.44% (or 0.284375) so you take only 6 hits more for each 100 they maul on you. is 6 hits worth extra 20 AC? (since i doubt jump from 80 to 100 is all that "easy" either.

    now.. 40 less, at nice number of 60? (not all that hard anymore to get)
    45.5/120=37.92% (or 0.37916666666) so.. decent amount more. 15 hits for every 100 attacks more than with 100 AC.

    now.. i've heard people say that PRR which reduces damage/hit is much better which i have to admit.. seems true in most cases. especially if you start to slide into that "diminishing returns" curve which is pretty much at (Monster attack bonus+10.5)*2 in this case AC of 90.

    it isn't 5% of old anymore (where monsters must roll 20 to hit you) or.. in theory, it'd be if you could get 910 points of AC
    Amazing, they actually managed to fix forum account post count and stuff without me bug reporting it!
    O.o there is hope out there yet!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    What is it really? After a year I don't believe for one second it's . . .

    Monster’s chance to hit: (Monster’s Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target’s Armor Class * 2)

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class

    What is it really? If it was the above AC would be a hell of a lot more useful in EE and less useful in Heroic.
    not sure what you mean, EE monsters are on the far end of the spectrum of attacker bonus, and its nearly impossible to get a high AC in heroic levels. more often then now your either at or slightly below the 45% mark if you try and build it as a tank and well over (closer to the 60-70%) if you dont , I doubt anything in EE has less then +150 attack, that means that pretty much all characters are going to get hit every single time if it wasnt for concealment/incorpereal/dodge.

    (IE: EE mobs are usually lvl 50+, the AC panel only shows defense % at lvl (which at lvl 25, 60AC shows up as 40% at level, yet nothing in EE is actually at lvl 25. usuauly 5-10lvls higher with EE being 20+ levels, so that % is way off from what your going to see if your quest)

    forget where it was stated but take a look at some known mobs bab:
    lord of blades (lvl20 raid boss) has an attack bonus of 78 on norm (need atleast an 95 AC to get that 50%) EE 160 (need 170AC for 50%)
    horoth (lvl 18 raid boss) has an attack bonus of 65 on norm (need a 85AC to get 50%)
    Arraetrikos (lvl 16 raid boss) has an attack bonus of 56 on norm (need atleast a 60AC to get even 50%)
    Stormreaver (lvl 14 raid boss) has an attack bonus of 35 on norm (need like a 45AC to get that 50%)

    what is your characters AC at each level, cause I know mine are usually well below the 50% mark. Very few of my characters have above a 60AC at lvl25 yet alone anytime before then. the only one with a decent advantage is my paladin tank who can currently sit at 120AC at 24, its probably possible to get higher, but for less then 4% more miss chance for every 10AC added it isnt really viable to do that for EE's. for EE's its better to focus on stuff the enemies cant bypass (dodge/incorp/concealment, and Prr)

  4. #4
    The Hatchery
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    The system does not work as advertised, no. I've gotten misses (not grazing hits) on 2+ while wielding proficient weapons many, many times.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  5. #5
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    What is it really? After a year I don't believe for one second it's . . .

    Monster’s chance to hit: (Monster’s Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target’s Armor Class * 2)

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class

    What is it really? If it was the above AC would be a hell of a lot more useful in EE and less useful in Heroic.
    There are way too many unknown variables for us to ever find the above formula useful.

    1. Is this actually the formula that is being used? It's possible that either on purpose or accidentally, this is not the formula being used. We have no way to test it reliably on our end to know for sure.

    2. What is a monster's attack bonus? I have no clue myself what attack bonus would be average for any particular mob at any particular CR. For all I know it varies from 10 - 250 at level 25. I have no clue. Besides a few specific examples given when the system was proposed, we don't know what attack value mobs have.

    3. Even if we knew that an average attack value for CR X mob was, say CR*2, we don't know how wildly that fluctuates. Is a CR 10 mob on normal the same as a CR 10 mob on elite? They may have the same CR, but do they have similar attack values? Simply moving from normal to elite (assuming similar CR values) means we could have a wildly fluctuating attack value.

    We are working with a system with far too many variables and certainly way too many to be calculating our defensive chance in our heads on the fly between encounters.

    I think that the first thing that needs to be added is a "CR slider" for our defensive chance at level (which is useless information). Allow us to set a CR with a slider bar and then see our defensive chance compared to that CR. If CR is static between difficulties (which I doubt) then any particular CR 30 mob should have approximately the same attack value as any other CR 30 mob. If I can set my defensive chance "at level" to CR30 (or whatever CR I'm facing in any given situation) then I can have a more accurate view of my defenses. Outside of perhaps some epic hard quests or a few heroic elites at high end, we don't fight anything "at level".

    As a second step allow me to see my specific defensive chance when I target any given mob. Say I target a CR 21 minotaur in Epic normal Von 2. In the status orb or box, include a line that calculates my defense chance compared to that specific mob (not necessarily an average CR21 mob) and put my % in there so I can see immediately what benefit my AC is providing.

    These two additions would go a long way to helping us visualize the benefit that AC is providing. Without actually knowing the details, I'd find it hard to push for any changes to the formula currently.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-25-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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