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  1. #1
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default So bad, Egon would need a Twinkie to describe it...

    Dated 6/25:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We have taken a couple of steps today that may have an impact on Wayfinder's population. We have removed the [DE] text from the launcher, since Wayfinder is no longer a German-language-specific server. We have also made Wayfinder the default "recommended world" for new players.
    Seriously, sending the new players - the people coming to check out the game for the first time - to the least populated server is just a horrible move! I don't know who thinks this stuff up, and I'm not going to go calling for an impeachment of their position or anything, but this needs to be reversed pronto!

    I just logged in to Wayfinder befor posting this, and there is 1 lfm, ONE. The "who" list has 32 players in the level 1-7 range. "Welcome to DDO, where you've got almost nobody to play with!"

    Please people, do not make this another "cesspool of insults" resulting in a thread lock or cubification, but by all means sound off if you also think this needs to be undone...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  2. #2
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    i gotta say this really does worry me. having the very first impression of DDO being that of a dead game is bound to put people off the game

    sure i like the idea of driving new players to our emptiest server, but this really does risk turning away too many new players, the lifeblood we need to look after.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Duskofdead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    i gotta say this really does worry me. having the very first impression of DDO being that of a dead game is bound to put people off the game

    sure i like the idea of driving new players to our emptiest server, but this really does risk turning away too many new players, the lifeblood we need to look after.
    I've said this many times about how for so many searches for DDO stuff on google, you're taken to 404 links. As someone trying to check out the game, that would lead me to believe the game was dead or offline. Most of those links actually work if you just change the /en/ to /forums/, you'd think that would be a fairly easy thing to fix so that people trying to look stuff up for DDO aren't being taken to endless 404 errors.

    Is there any stated reason why they aren't server merging?

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Really does seem to be a bad idea, Wayfinder is just too dead to support new players, who typically need groups far more than vets.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
    I've said this many times about how for so many searches for DDO stuff on google, you're taken to 404 links. As someone trying to check out the game, that would lead me to believe the game was dead or offline. Most of those links actually work if you just change the /en/ to /forums/, you'd think that would be a fairly easy thing to fix so that people trying to look stuff up for DDO aren't being taken to endless 404 errors.

    Is there any stated reason why they aren't server merging?
    yup, you're point is a good one. i can be heavily influenced by the state of a companies website and that sort of behaviour would make me think very carefully about how much i was willing to trust my contact details with the company. now, having known turbine from previous games it would not have stopped me signing up if i'd only just found out about DDO, but if i'd not heard of turbine before than it would certainly cause me to pause and think about it before deciding to sign up. this is before money is involved, i dont like throwing my email address about.

    as for server merges, they are one of the messiest solutions to the problem and always result in upset people who have just lost their character name. there is now the issue of guilds with their names that will clash and the expensive airships associated with them. so i can understand why it's not turbines first option.
    www.legendsguild.eu A light RP guild that's moved from Keeper in Europe to Thelanis
    Play DDO in 3D, for fweeeee! how to use coloured 3D glasses with DDO.
    East? West? Which way's that? Putting East and West back on the (mini)map
    Tired of chasing blue dots? Find a speed or striding item, vets are hooked on them and you will be too!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Seriously, sending the new players - the people coming to check out the game for the first time - to the least populated server is just a horrible move!
    Indeed, this does seem like a terrible idea. DDO is already very small for an MMO. Making it look like a ghost town by sending new players to a nearly empty server is going to have the result of them looking around, seeing that things are empty, and deciding that the game is dead without even giving it a fair shake.

  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
    I've said this many times about how for so many searches for DDO stuff on google, you're taken to 404 links. As someone trying to check out the game, that would lead me to believe the game was dead or offline. Most of those links actually work if you just change the /en/ to /forums/, you'd think that would be a fairly easy thing to fix so that people trying to look stuff up for DDO aren't being taken to endless 404 errors.

    Is there any stated reason why they aren't server merging?
    Merging servers is a big red flag for "game is dying" and companies dont like to do that until theres no other recourse. Right now they likely believe the same thing will happen as did last year when the expansion drops and the population increases again due to returning vets now having something new to do.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    I can see both sides of this argument.

    If they don't want to do a server merge, how else would they help the population on the server other than change it to the "recommended" option?
    (Honest question)
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Merging servers is a big red flag for "game is dying" and companies dont like to do that until theres no other recourse. Right now they likely believe the same thing will happen as did last year when the expansion drops and the population increases again due to returning vets now having something new to do.
    Yeah, those 10 new quests will keep people busy for at least a couple weeks.

    Come September, all the US kids will be back in school, the expansion will be played out, and the game population will drop back down to May levels.

    We all remember what happened last October, right?

  10. #10
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    You guys really want a self-fulfilling prophecy, don't you?

    In a nutshell it is just like this:
    Why is Wyfinder dying? Because noone is there.
    Why is noone there? Because Wayfinder is dying.
    DUH !

    Well, then... GO THERE.

    Turbine apparently hoped to get a lot of German players. In fact, I think Germany is a big market for pen and paper RPGs, so the hopes were not entirely unfounded. Yet, I haven't seen much advertising for DDO on any German sites. So the marketing didn't work or Turbine just didn't care enough. Anyway the misconception that Wayfinder is specifically for German players (as the DE implied) should have been removed a long time ago. I think if that had happened, the population would be bigger now.
    So making it a recommended servers seems to be a good idea, IF there are just enough new players coming in. It will take a while, of course.

    And personally, I think a low population server with no lag does make a better impression than a full server that lags like hell.

    Also, I have played on several worlds and in general I think the DDO players are unfriendly towards new players.
    So maybe less people also means players are "forced" to band together and behave more friendly towards each other.

    I will continue to play on Wayfinder.

  11. #11
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    I can see both sides of this argument.

    If they don't want to do a server merge, how else would they help the population on the server other than change it to the "recommended" option?
    (Honest question)
    Offer free character & guild transfers, along with an incentive for doing so. Unfortunately, if too many people take them up on this, you only transfer the title of "least populated server" to the most abandoned location.

    As Wayfinder was introduced way after the last server merge, and has relatively failed, I think the above offer should be extended to the Wayfinder population. Offer them incentives to freely transfer their toons & guilds to other servers, then shut it down. This avoids the stigma of a "server merger" while boosting the population of the other existing servers. Perhaps (while retaining the free offer) restrict whatever the incentives would be to only apply if they move to (x) servers, where the populations also need a boost.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-25-2013 at 04:27 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  12. #12
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Offer free character & guild transfers, along with an incentive for doing so. Unfortunately, if too many people take them up on this, you only transfer the title of "least populated server" to the most abandoned location.

    As Wayfinder was introduced way after the last server merge, and has relatively failed, I think the above offer should be extended to the Wayfinder population. Offer them incentives to freely transfer their toons & guilds to other servers, then shut it down. This avoids the stigma of a "server merger" while boosting the population of the other existing servers. Perhaps (while retaining the free offer) restrict whatever the incentives wood be to only apply if they move to (x) servers, where the populations also need a boost.
    Fair enough, except now you're asking them to give away paid services for free to an unknown number of people. Now you should probably factor in the very real possibility that they just don't have the staff or the time (or both!) to do what they are already doing like making updates, fixing bugs, forums, etc.. I see their choice as the path of least effort for (potential) gain.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeGirl View Post
    And personally, I think a low population server with no lag does make a better impression than a full server that lags like hell... I will continue to play on Wayfinder.
    I really hope you're right. Personally, when I first came to DDO, I was looking for lots of people to play D&D With online. If I had seen just one whole lfm like I did this morning, and repeated that experience, I probably wouldn't be here today... Unless I checked out another server which defeats the purpose of starting on the empty one.

    I'm glad you're happy there, and I hope I'm wrong about the relatively empty server making a bad impression on potential newcomers; obviously I don't think I'm wrong I wouldn't have brought Cordovans' post from the Wayfinder forum to the General populations attention...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  14. #14
    Community Member memloch's Avatar
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    Default I see nothing wrong with this strategy

    I am not sure about you but when I first started playing I did not know anything about the LFM system. My first impressions was playing the game solo. The best way to build a population on a server is to offer the server as the default. How else would it grow?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    sure i like the idea of driving new players to our emptiest server, but this really does risk turning away too many new players, the lifeblood we need to look after.
    I prefer the idea of driving new players to the SECOND emptiest server, which has many times the activity of the emptiest.

    Since they are dropping the whole "(DE)" designation anyway, they could server-merge just Wayfinder to another, while only admitting that a German server was a failure, rather than that the game as a whole is dying.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Oh boy are they on a streak of terrible ideas... Throwing away new players? brilliant... Forget that motivated players might come and brave this terrible forum to find out what servers are more populated, forget that some wont click the default and others will still look at another server after they are creeped out by the empty Wayfinder... A very large number of new players are simply going to log in and say "oh... it's one of those dead MMO's" close the game and never invest another thought to DDO.

    I mean... it's just... wheeeew...

    Here's a thought, on join let the new player know that wayfinder is a new(ish) server "join in the fun of helping build a new server community (implying they can join one of the more populated servers once they see the newspaper fluttering down the empty street).

  17. #17
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by memloch View Post
    I am not sure about you but when I first started playing I did not know anything about the LFM system. My first impressions was playing the game solo. The best way to build a population on a server is to offer the server as the default. How else would it grow?
    With the buzz and momentum that a new game has. I've never seen a late to the game new server succeed in an MMO, I'm sure there have been some but UO tried it with "Lake Austin" that was a miserable failure eventually. Wayfinder is a clear example of what over specificity gets you (the DE tag is a warning to not join it unless you speak the language in some capacity ).

    To compound the error they will turn off a large percentage of brand new players with fresh downloads, who will see wayfinder and uninstall... I know this because I have installed F2P MMO's seen an unhealthy game and immediately uninstalled myself. People do not really play MMO's to solo... Most single player oriented players realize that single player games offer a much better, more immersive and fun experience. MMO's are terrible single player RPG's so the vast majority of players are looking for a healthy population to join.

  18. #18
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    If I had to make the call, I would say transfer everyone from Wayfinder to Ghallanda and give them a 5k TP bonus for their trouble.

    This is kinda what what happened when they closed the EU servers, so most of us moved here, although some people did jump early to Thelanis because there was an early rumour that was where we would end up.

    Like it or not, Wayfinder was set up as a German Language server even if it's no longer designated as one, so it makes sense to me to move the characters from there to where the rest of the EU server population was moved to, and give them something for the inconvenience.

    If you wanted to be creative, list the servers in order of size of population at any given time so that there's a good chance that you'll end up on the most populated server for your timezone (or make it the second most populated if you're worried about having just one super-server and the rest deserted).

  19. #19
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    definitely not the best first impression of DDO. sending new players to Wayfinder by default may sound like a good idea to help re-populate the server, but if I was a new player on a dead server I probably would quit thinking the game isn't doing well.

    when I go out to the bars, I go where the people are. a dead bar is boring and time to move on to where there is some action.

  20. #20
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    Note Late comer server succeeding Look to Orion

    As for the strategy of pointing new players to the Wayfinder server it is a risky one because it does bank on the idea that new players want to explore and learn unmolested by players that have had years of experience.

    Advantage is that everyone is practically in the same boat no established cliques to become a part of, it is basically the same level playing field.

    As for a dead server, the assumption is that people will only ever pick the recommended server. Many gamers I know actually server hop before they settle on a server. This is partly looking for a good population during their gaming time and finding like minded people.

    Again it is risky in that if a player does see a consistent low population on a server and is not one to check out other servers and just assumes the population then yes they can be turned off by this. However, I agree that the 404 errors on the web links would be more of a turn off for people doing Web Searches for their next game to try.

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