Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 142
  1. #121
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Now Thrudh, are you referring to me here? I ask, since your previous post included a quote from me. If you were not referring to me, no harm, no foul.

    On the other hand, if you were referring to me, please link the post where I said that "Turbine could be better run by monkeys". I'd hate to think that you were fabricating yet again.
    Here you go... took about 5 seconds to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    There are 3 devs total for ddo.

    Two monkeys locked in a room with a DOS computer and, one zookeeper that feeds them coffee and cigarettes.



    jking. Remember. I love ddo.
    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    In that scenario, who does the QA? The zoo keeper? No self respecting monkey would be responsible for QA work that resulted in customers being required to manually patch their install directories after a failed game patch.

    Monkeys have pride.
    I really should link that one really excellent thread where someone asked "If you were in charge at Turbine, what would you do?". There were 50-60 really good posts with solid concrete suggestions, and then there was a huge post from you where you explained how awesome a coder you were, and how you'd fire all the developers because they didn't understand how to run a business as good as you did, etc, etc, etc, for about 10 paragraphs, and you never added a SINGLE useful suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  2. #122
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You farmed some stupid chest 450 times last Sunday, I believe? Isn't it ironic...

    Maybe your 70+ year old parents would have enough confidence in you to turn over their business to their 50+ year old son, if you weren't spending hours and hours playing a video game (while spending even MORE hours posting about how bad it is).
    You are so cute when you are angry.

    Yep, I hit a chest 450 times on a rainy Sunday afternoon, at 30 seconds per pop. That is a total of 3 hours and 45 minutes, to take advantage of something that I knew was going away the next day. As I recall, I also noted that it is something that I would never ordinarily do. Since then, I logged on to verify that 18.2 didn't fix my cleric's spell crits (it didn't). That took only a few minutes, and I am probably done for in game time for this week.

    Are you really trying to make the case that I post too much? I worked all day, and am squeezing in a couple of posts between house hold tasks now. You have over 10 times the posts that I do, and have been posting in this thread since the middle of the day. Really, I would expect most people in your position to have more sense than to press THIS issue. However, most of us have known for some time that you are "special".

    You shouldn't worry about my parents so much. They are only in their 70s. My grandmother died 17 months ago, at the age of 98. She lived on her own until 6 weeks before she died. My family tends to live a long time and age well, and my parents are having the time of their life running the business they built from the ground up.

    Its not like I am bored. I am running my own consulting company, and have more clients than I really want. I keep bumping my consulting rates in an attempt to reduce the demand, but it just doesn't seem to be working lately.

    I know this must all sound foreign to you. I keep forgetting that some people didn't have the advantage of growing up in a culture which cherishes and prizes hard work. Some of us just weren't meant to take Social Security at 62 and spend the rest of our lives watching day time TV.

  3. #123
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    On the other hand, if you were referring to me, please link the post where I said that "Turbine could be better run by monkeys". I'd hate to think that you were fabricating yet again.
    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    In that scenario, who does the QA? The zoo keeper? No self respecting monkey would be responsible for QA work that resulted in customers being required to manually patch their install directories after a failed game patch.

    Monkeys have pride.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Here you go... took about 5 seconds to find.
    What is it that you found? Could you highlight the text where I said "Turbine could be better run by monkeys"? I have read the text multiple times, but I have to admit that I cannot find it.

    On the other hand, if you read the thread and came to the conclusion that "Turbine could be better run by monkeys", that is your conclusion, not my statement. I'll stand behind what I said, not what you concluded.

  4. #124
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    The flaw in your premise is that there's many of us who worked hard to get our small guilds to 100 and worked hard to get completionist. Turbine's changes to once again move towards a casual game by eliminating some of the only competition left is going to anger many of us, making your point moot. They've simply angered another group of players while making another group happy.

    These changes will keep casuals around longer, but this won't help endgame, because more endgame players will be alienated and leaving, now that their years of achievements are erased.
    Believe me there is no jealousy on my part. I have a completionist and I am in a lvl 97 guild. IMO, past lives only make a person marginally better, so I could care less how easy it is to get them.

    You raise an interesting point though. Are they going away from the normal “end game” because there is a decline in hardcore players? Is it that the casuals are giving more? Is it that Turbine can save money by having us run the same content and avoid not making new raids?

    To be honest, it doesn’t really matter what reason. They are the boss so they can do as they see fit. I only wonder why is it just now that they are addressing the issues of guild decay and tr xp.

    There was no need to alter this stuff in the past because you had a ton of people that were keeping the game afloat financially. Now you are running into a situation that people are either not playing as much or not spending as much. Either way, Turbine would not have started looking into altering these unless they knew they were either losing players or money.

    If they decide to cater to the casuals, not a problem. I would love to start tr’ing again and not need 4.3 mill xp. So you see there is no jealousy with me. I am happy if they make the change. But do not think they are doing this just to be nice. As I said they are either losing money or players.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  5. #125
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I really should link that one really excellent thread where someone asked "If you were in charge at Turbine, what would you do?". There were 50-60 really good posts with solid concrete suggestions, and then there was a huge post from you where you explained how awesome a coder you were, and how you'd fire all the developers because they didn't understand how to run a business as good as you did, etc, etc, etc, for about 10 paragraphs, and you never added a SINGLE useful suggestion.
    I am really not in the habit of quoting myself THIS much, but since you mentioned it

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Well, as someone who has been a professional software engineer for over 30 years, and who currently does only design, I would graciously decline the offer because

    1) I have seen Boston, and I would refuse to live there or in the general area
    2) I wouldn't be interested in the pay cut I would have to take
    3) I consider having DDO on my resume the equivalent of career suicide

    What? I have been kidnapped, and have no choice but to participate in this evil plan? Fine, but unless you want to me to design the equivalent of Hello Kitty with swords, I demand the following:

    1) Complete control over personnel from design, development, QA and the Community Team. You can expect that I would make extensive changes as I saw fit.

    2) I would immediately provide recurring financial support to the DDOWiki since it is the de facto source of information for this game. What? Outside the scope of design? Do you want something other than Hello Kitty? OK, then let me proceed.

    3) I would post my apologies onto the DDO Forums for the current horrendous state of the game. I would ask for time to repair the damage that has been done, while acknowledging that Turbine and I have done absolutely nothing to earn your trust.

    4) I would call a staff meeting. The presentation would consist of one slide: "We have jobs because of our customers. If you have a problem with that, please stop at HR after the meeting."

    5) I would form a player council to seek advice on how to move forward. Anyone who previously spent all their time telling Turbine what a great job was being done would automatically be excluded for fairly obvious reasons.

    6) I would scrap the proposed enhancement pass, and ask the designers to please explain how in the world they came to the conclusion that it was a good idea.

    7) I would find someone that could finally fix the bug tool, and would expand it to publicly publish all reported bugs which were not obvious troll attempts. Any player caught trolling the bug reporting system would be permanently banned. WB would let me do this, or I would give them the promised Hello Kitty with swords.

    8) I would call the software developers together and state the obvious: The code base is broken. We need to fix it. I need you to tell me how. Each individual's job evaluation will be based on the quality of ideas he/she provides in this area.

    9) I would call QA together and state the obvious: We no longer will ship broken product to our customers. I want a detailed test plan for the breadth of the game, as well as a set of reasonable ship criteria we will use to sign off on the release of each update.

    10) I would call the Community Team together, and state the obvious: Your job is to make each DDO customer feel welcome on these forums, including those who are dissatisfied with aspects of the game. Playing favorites will no longer be tolerated.

    11) I would call the forum designers together and ask a simple question: What can be done quicker, fixing the current forums to have the equivalent function of the old forums (including a separate log in for game and forums), or a rollback to the old forums? Choose the option, give me a date, and deliver on time.

    12) I would fall into bed, and vacillate between the euphoria over how much had already been achieved, and the daunting realization of how we had barely just begun.
    It was a broad overview of the systemic organizational problems which plague this game, all of which would need to be addressed if there were to be any hope of breathing some new life into DDO. I admit, its not full of little tweaks to game mechanics, simply because

    1) If I (or anyone) would be in charge at Turbine, my job would be to look at the big picture, not the minor details.

    2) Little tweaks to game mechanics will not make or break this game without the major systemic changes being put into place.

    Now, I am hardly surprised that you did not appreciate the post. I would expect that an (at best) entry level developer would focus on the micro picture while being completely oblivious to the macro environment. That is the difference between someone such as yourself, and someone with my experience.

    I'd ask for quotes of where I "explained how awesome a coder you were" and "how you'd fire all the developers because they didn't understand how to run a business as good as you did", but really, we have already seen that the "quotes" (lmao, I love that) you have of me are more your imagination than reality.

    By the way, since we are talking about quotes, I have to admit that I love the new reputation feature that allows people to leave comments. Some people seemed to like what I had to say on how I would fix the game:

    1) YEAH!
    2) Monumentally epic!
    3) Sounds like the right spirit to me!

    I know there were more, but the rest seem to have scrolled off the end of the list. Oh well, they were fun to read while I still had access to them.

  6. #126
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    You dismiss the graph because of "handwave". If you want to dismiss objective evidence for no rational reason whatsoever go ahead. I'm not interested in arguing with anyone who does that. At least you're admitting the game seems to be down. Which basically reads like: Okay the earth is probably round but I'm not interested in in hearing about this Eratosthenes fellow.
    I think I'm repeating a lot of the points that have already been made in this thread, but we don't know how these trends look relative to a year or two ago. We don't know if there is a natural seasonal dip. We don't know if this is what happens to the population regularly between large updates. We don't know how the overall log in numbers in 2013 so far compare to the overall log in numbers in 2011 Jan-Jun. There also seem to be issues with the way the log ins are counted in the first place.

    I'm not "admitting" to anything when I share my personal opinion about the state of the DDO population. I suspect the population is down. I've shared this opinion in other threads and I shared it in the post immediately following my first post in this thread. You seem to have decided that people who think the graph is not meaningful are biased or want to only believe certain things, and I don't know how many posts I have to use telling you otherwise.

    If you want to seriously consider bias, think about the pressures that must be put on an original poster to defend his position if it comes under attack. Can that pressure cause one to ignore arguments or intentionally misread them? Can personal pride cloud judgement in this situation? Can the original poster armor himself with preconceived notions about people with opposing points of view in order to disqualify their arguments before they are read or understood? Can the graph itself be viewed with a confirmation bias?
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 06-27-2013 at 12:43 AM.

  7. #127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    This thread is part II we have data back to January. Unfortunately no one saved a jpg of the last quarters graph that was in the last thread, and DDO oracle overwrote the previous file, so old links point to the current graph.
    Thank you for the explanation. I'm afraid I didn't follow the previous installment of this thread. Have you tried the Wayback Machine?
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  8. #128
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It's becoming quite clear that you aren't at all aware of what makes a strong and long lasting endgame. Here's a hint, it isn't easy quests that can be mastered and beat in a day.
    The game population tanked after U11. I'm right.

  9. #129
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    149

    Default

    Who cares ? Go PLAY them game instead of writing dissertations about something you will never know the answer to anyway.
    Log in, post lfm, not this stupid circle-jerk and lolconspiracy theories.

  10. #130
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I dropped a 7 year graph on you once, and you denied that one too. What will be interesting to see is how long the people who return for the expansion stay. Office pool, any takers? I got 6 weeks. The people who are all playing other games come back on day 1 of the expansion, and by 6 weeks its back to a ghost town like it is right now.
    You're describing something most all MMOs have, spike on new content and quick fall off, i'd say 6 week is too much more like 3 or 4.

    As pure solo the discussion doesn't phase me much in the end, but a 7 Year graph would be interesting to me.
    Especially how things looked at the F2P transition i'd find interesting, you still got that somewhere ?
    Last edited by Pandir; 06-27-2013 at 08:05 AM.

  11. #131
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    It was a broad overview of the systemic organizational problems which plague this game, all of which would need to be addressed if there were to be any hope of breathing some new life into DDO.
    You, sir, are the classic portrait of an Architecture Astronaut. Your post was useless for the devs. All it did was serve your own ego. Nearly every other post in that thread gave small useful concrete suggestions. The devs have actually said they are going to implement a few of them, and there is a ton of rejoicing on the boards (In the Quest XP thread, 98% of the people, even people who usually post negative rants, were excited about the changes. You, of course, and one other person still had nothing good to say.... But then you still logged in to play for 4 hours the Sunday after.

    http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...000000069.html

    We're programmers. Programmers are, in their hearts, architects, and the first thing they want to do when they get to a site is to bulldoze the place flat and build something grand. We're not excited by incremental renovation: tinkering, improving, planting flower beds..
    The idea that new code is better than old is patently absurd. Old code has been used. It has been tested. Lots of bugs have been found, and they've been fixed. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't acquire bugs just by sitting around on your hard drive. Au contraire, baby! Is software supposed to be like an old Dodge Dart, that rusts just sitting in the garage? Is software like a teddy bear that's kind of gross if it's not made out of all new material?

    Back to that two page function. Yes, I know, it's just a simple function to display a window, but it has grown little hairs and stuff on it and nobody knows why. Well, I'll tell you why: those are bug fixes. One of them fixes that bug that Nancy had when she tried to install the thing on a computer that didn't have Internet Explorer. Another one fixes that bug that occurs in low memory conditions. Another one fixes that bug that occurred when the file is on a floppy disk and the user yanks out the disk in the middle. That LoadLibrary call is ugly but it makes the code work on old versions of Windows 95.

    Each of these bugs took weeks of real-world usage before they were found. The programmer might have spent a couple of days reproducing the bug in the lab and fixing it. If it's like a lot of bugs, the fix might be one line of code, or it might even be a couple of characters, but a lot of work and time went into those two characters.

    When you throw away code and start from scratch, you are throwing away all that knowledge. All those collected bug fixes. Years of programming work.

    You are throwing away your market leadership. You are giving a gift of two or three years to your competitors, and believe me, that is a long time in software years.

    You are putting yourself in an extremely dangerous position where you will be shipping an old version of the code for several years, completely unable to make any strategic changes or react to new features that the market demands, because you don't have shippable code. You might as well just close for business for the duration.

    You are wasting an outlandish amount of money writing code that already exists.
    I'm not sure why I'm arguing with you. I've dealt with dozens of "architects" over my career... About 50% actually bring value to an organization. The ones with zero concrete suggestions have always been pretty worthless and ignored.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 06-27-2013 at 08:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #132
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I dropped a 7 year graph on you once, and you denied that one too. What will be interesting to see is how long the people who return for the expansion stay. Office pool, any takers? I got 6 weeks. The people who are all playing other games come back on day 1 of the expansion, and by 6 weeks its back to a ghost town like it is right now.
    I agree with this.

    And seriously, calling this an "expansion" is ridiculous.

  13. #133
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    You raise an interesting point though. Are they going away from the normal “end game” because there is a decline in hardcore players? Is it that the casuals are giving more? Is it that Turbine can save money by having us run the same content and avoid not making new raids?
    There are TWO relevant raids at this time. Raids need to have relevant loot to be worth running, most are horribly out-dated.

    EE drop-rates on quest loot are so low they are discouraging. I joke that my chances of pulling the EE Black Helms I needs are about the same on Korthos as they are in TOR. But they need to keep the prices high on the Shard Exchange don't they? So yes, blame them hiring a friggin Zynga reject for this stupidity.

    So 2ish months after an update there is nothing to do at end-game. People who like TRing (I like both) are TRing, people who are end-game hounds are doing something else.

    It really is that simple.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 06-27-2013 at 08:26 AM.

  14. #134
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Who cares ? Go PLAY them game instead of writing dissertations about something you will never know the answer to anyway.
    Log in, post lfm, not this stupid circle-jerk and lolconspiracy theories.
    You mean log in, post an LFM that DOESN'T FILL because the game is dead, then sit around with your thumb in an orifice?

    Oh . . . . that's right . . . everything is fine with DDO, nothing can ever be wrong with such a perfect product made by a perfect company.

  15. #135
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The game population tanked after U11. I'm right.
    You've posted no evidence, so I have no idea if you're right. You simply declared something. But common sense should tell you that easily completed endgame quests and raids with easily achievable loot is not something that keeps people in endgame longer.

  16. #136
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    You've posted no evidence, so I have no idea if you're right. You simply declared something. But common sense should tell you that easily completed endgame quests and raids with easily achievable loot is not something that keeps people in endgame longer.
    My declaration should be all the evidence you need.

  17. #137
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    You've posted no evidence, so I have no idea if you're right. You simply declared something. But common sense should tell you that easily completed endgame quests and raids with easily achievable loot is not something that keeps people in endgame longer.
    How do you expect evidence? Do the LFM’s have to be completely empty for 3 months before you will say there is a decline? I am by no means saying that the game is dying, but refusing to admit that there are less people is a little silly.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  18. #138
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    How do you expect evidence? Do the LFM’s have to be completely empty for 3 months before you will say there is a decline? I am by no means saying that the game is dying, but refusing to admit that there are less people is a little silly.
    People like to deny reality. Denying this game's population has dropped since U11 is denying reality.

    DDO isn't dying, it's sick. We'd like to see it get healthy.

    DDO needs a doctor, in this case Dr. d000m!

  19. #139
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    I am really not in the habit of quoting myself THIS much, but since you mentioned it



    It was a broad overview of the systemic organizational problems which plague this game, all of which would need to be addressed if there were to be any hope of breathing some new life into DDO. I admit, its not full of little tweaks to game mechanics, simply because

    1) If I (or anyone) would be in charge at Turbine, my job would be to look at the big picture, not the minor details.

    2) Little tweaks to game mechanics will not make or break this game without the major systemic changes being put into place.

    Now, I am hardly surprised that you did not appreciate the post. I would expect that an (at best) entry level developer would focus on the micro picture while being completely oblivious to the macro environment. That is the difference between someone such as yourself, and someone with my experience.

    I'd ask for quotes of where I "explained how awesome a coder you were" and "how you'd fire all the developers because they didn't understand how to run a business as good as you did", but really, we have already seen that the "quotes" (lmao, I love that) you have of me are more your imagination than reality.

    By the way, since we are talking about quotes, I have to admit that I love the new reputation feature that allows people to leave comments. Some people seemed to like what I had to say on how I would fix the game:

    1) YEAH!
    2) Monumentally epic!
    3) Sounds like the right spirit to me!

    I know there were more, but the rest seem to have scrolled off the end of the list. Oh well, they were fun to read while I still had access to them.
    Why do you, and most Ivory Tower denziens, assume all developers were created equal, and that if you just deliver the perfect design or plan, success will ensue, the actual ability of the human resources be damned? I won't argue the political suggestions are irrelevant, they do have relevance, but developer skills at the end of the day, make A plug into B and not start fires.

    There's nothing amiss with others deducing developer skillsets or lack thereof by the actual experience of bugs to users. Developers can argue, that they don't get "given" time to work on bugs, but anyone who's really climbed the dev ranks knows you cut your real teeth on fixing bugs in your code base on your own time. You know how many devs do that? Not many. Colleges have graduated a huge number of CS and MIS majors in the last two decades, and how many of them can be trusted to write a solid loop, again not many, to say nothing of writing high volume transactional systems with multi-threading to boot, much less fixing a broken one.

  20. #140
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    6,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    You're describing something most all MMOs have, spike on new content and quick fall off, i'd say 6 week is too much more like 3 or 4.

    As pure solo the discussion doesn't phase me much in the end, but a 7 Year graph would be interesting to me.
    Especially how things looked at the F2P transition i'd find interesting, you still got that somewhere ?

    Chai's "7 year graph", much like his other 'proof' to date, was based on dubious data. The site hosting the graph gave it a low accuracy rating as it appeared to be derived more from estimates rather than hard data. A good half dozen people pointed this out, but that has not stopped him from trotting it out as 'evidence.'


    As other posters have written, there really are not any good hard figures for MMO populations posted publicly. This does not stop people like OP or Chai from cherry picking dubious data sets, presenting them as fact, then plugging their ears singing "LALALALALALAICANTHEARYOU!" when others point out the gaping holes in their data or conclusions.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload