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  1. #41
    Community Member twigzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Easy.

    1) Update 19 - Nothing but bug fixes and quality of life improvements. The list of bug fixes should be at least 4 pages long. Included in these fixes is that every single item, spell, and ability has its bonus type specifically quantified to eliminate any possible confusion about what stacks with what.

    2) The expansion - Without changing the price, the expansion is...expanded. Instead of 2 adventure packs and 2 explorer areas, the expansion is bulked up to include: 6 adventure packs (5-6 quests each), 3 explorer areas, 4 raids.

    3) The Enhancement revamp is cancelled, because it's an irretrievable mess that never should have made alpha status. Instead, all classes have all of their PrEs implemented and taken to Tier3 (or Tier5, if it's set up like Archmage).

    4) Dump the entire epic TR program, and particularly eliminate even the slightest trace that the devs even considered for a microsecond stripping out people's hard-earned ED XP when TRing.

    5) Go ahead with the XP smoothing on TR2+. Spread out the burden currently lumped at 17-20, and spread it down to 12, so a much larger number of quests are available to get that XP.

    6) Split heroic and epic quest completions so that repeat counters are not affected for L20+ dungeons.

    7) Stop showing utter contempt for your customers. Yes, customers. Not players, CUSTOMERS. You know, those people who quite literally pay your salaries?

    The last one will be the hardest.

    Some of these would make me come back....but I gave up on waiting a month ago and just bailed.

  2. #42
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    How to get the numbers up?

    Finish the Enhancement pass and the Epic TR system based on the overwhelming concensus from the players who have given the feedback, and then a positive marketing blitz pushing the detailed nature of the game and content rich world to give you a properly immersive D&D experience. Sell the complexity, just call it many-layered and detailed. Don't try and dumb it down.

    Basically position yourself as the place where Neverwinter kids will graduate to but piggyback on any interest in D&D that Neverwinter has created, then when it folds, you're well placed to pick up some more. And with the rights to another D&D movie already in the off, be ready to engage with that marketing too.

    Speak to Wizards of the Coast and get them to put a code for a month's VIP subscription with the hardback version of D&D Next when it goes to print. Call it franchise support. We're already F2P (ish) but that's obviously not cutting it, so offer a month's VIP for them to try us out.

    Make a concerted effort to have regular communication with the player base, because like it or not, with some us having invested up to 7 years with DDO we have an inflated and illogical sense of entitlement. Don't give us marketing speak. Give us a sensible expectation for a schedule of bug fixes to address the issues that we're all aware of, and accept that we won't turn up outside Turbine offices with burning torches and pitchforks if schedules slip for genuine reasons. Give us a regular development diary so that we can see what's going on behind the scenes and tell us more about some of the design concepts you're aiming for to help demystify what we see as bizarre design decisions.

    As for the graphs, there's lies, damn lies and statistics. What I can tell you is that there are times of the day where we definitely could do with more people around.
    Sounds good. I'm suspecting the huge hoards of newbie's on our server are Neverwinter refugees who are trying something more "D&D."

  3. #43
    Community Member pelaaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Easy.

    1) Update 19 - Nothing but bug fixes and quality of life improvements. The list of bug fixes should be at least 4 pages long. Included in these fixes is that every single item, spell, and ability has its bonus type specifically quantified to eliminate any possible confusion about what stacks with what.

    2) The expansion - Without changing the price, the expansion is...expanded. Instead of 2 adventure packs and 2 explorer areas, the expansion is bulked up to include: 6 adventure packs (5-6 quests each), 3 explorer areas, 4 raids.

    3) The Enhancement revamp is cancelled, because it's an irretrievable mess that never should have made alpha status. Instead, all classes have all of their PrEs implemented and taken to Tier3 (or Tier5, if it's set up like Archmage). Also, the UI of the enhancement system would be a bit less confusing.

    4) Dump the entire epic TR program, and particularly eliminate even the slightest trace that the devs even considered for a microsecond stripping out people's hard-earned ED XP when TRing.

    5) Go ahead with the XP smoothing on TR2+. Spread out the burden currently lumped at 17-20, and spread it down to 12, so a much larger number of quests are available to get that XP.

    6) Split heroic and epic quest completions so that repeat counters are not affected for L20+ dungeons.

    7) Stop showing utter contempt for your customers. Yes, customers. Not players, CUSTOMERS. You know, those people who quite literally pay your salaries?

    The last one will be the hardest.
    ^This, except one thing edited in red
    Quote Originally Posted by amnota View Post
    Halfling thrower builds are fun.

    Of course the trick is in knowing just how to bend the halfling...otherwise they never come back.

  4. #44
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    Default I have data of daily logins for one month in 2010

    If I get around to it I will put the numbers up.

    This is what i have, the logins by the hour for each server for 30 days.

    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 0:00 1716
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 1:00 1389
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 2:00 978
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 3:00 856
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 4:00 647
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 5:00 590
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 6:00 578
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 7:00 709
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 8:00 787
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 9:00 906
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 10:00 1107
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 11:00 1289
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 12:00 1591
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 13:00 1782
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 14:00 1736
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 15:00 2069
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 16:00 1999
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 17:00 2133
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 18:00 2317
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 19:00 2367
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 20:00 2371
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 21:00 2340
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 22:00 2216
    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 23:00 2072
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  5. #45
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomooprincess View Post
    If I get around to it I will put the numbers up.

    This is what i have, the logins by the hour for each server for 30 days.

    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 00:00 1716/600

    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 06:00 578/350


    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 12:00 1591/700

    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 17:00 2133/800

    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 18:00 2317/750

    Argonnessen 3/15/2010 19:00 2367/750
    Compare those to the current daily numbers using the same off peak and on peak hours in red (note numbers adjusted slightly in favor of being generous to the current numbers) It would be interesting to know what was going on in March of 2010.

    Note I don't have a daily graph for March of '13 so can not compare the same time of year.

  6. #46
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing, was there an event in March Timeframe 2010

    My first thought was Cove - But that was 2011 nearly 1 year later

    So I did a bit of checking and the only two events I found were

    Festival of the Traveler (Easter Egg Hunt in the Marketplace)
    Risia Ice Games (2010 Winter Olympics)

    The only other thing was their 4th birthday but I don't remember a cake or box on the 4th b-day

    The only question I have on the numbers posted is Time Zone of times. If Moon posted EST and Evils comparison are based on GMT there would not be a true comparison of times and logins.
    Last edited by Enoach; 06-25-2013 at 09:49 PM. Reason: spelling and add comment on times

  7. #47
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Meh, thats not a very dramatic graph. 25% over 4 months is not surprising given the fickle nature of the MMO market. I still only play DDO, and I have been to busy to play for more than a few hours a week for the last month. With the summer here, I have been busy. I have to get what I want done before the temps outside refuse to drop below 95* at night.

    If you want to see a dramatic graph, I suggest you google these:

    The graph showing the US congress approval rating from 9/11 2001 to about the end of 2006.

    The graph showing the US stock market from 2006 to 2012.

    The graph showing the US stock market for the same time frame as your DDO graph. I think the DJIA gained all of those missing DDO players somehow.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    It would be interesting to know what was going on in March of 2010.
    There was not a lot special going on in March 2010 as far as I know. However, in late 2009 DDO made big news as the first western MMORPG to go ftp. According to various gaming sites in late 2009/early 2010 DDO increased both revenue and subscribers by as much as 200-500%.
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  9. #49
    Community Member badbob117's Avatar
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    I been taking a break from DDO! Been trying some other god awful games lately. Tis the season for new **** f2p games!

    None of em are really any good though! Some have potential but i always finding myself saying "It would be better if they did it like DDO instead".

    I do miss this game. I won't lie though, Not having any new raids in the new expansion was a huge turnoff for me and my friends. Some downright stopped playing when that info was released. That was the nail in the coffin for me. I could give a rats ass about owl bears and flying cats, 3 more levels and a revamped clicky system, Me and my friends like raids the most! The rest is just icing on the cake. 2 end game raids just does not cut it and literally burnt us out.

    I hope Turbine can get their **** together and bounce this game back up from its slump. It is a awesome game. I will probs be around when xpac goes live. Check out the forums, Read the reviews and play it by ear. I hope its great stuff. The community deserves nothing less!
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  10. #50
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    This discussion is all academic. The only numbers that matter to Turbine are revenue and profitability. And we don't know those numbers.

  11. #51
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    1. New games got released/open betas.
    2. Some people don't stay around in one game for long periods.
    3. End of April onward signifies end of semester test times, to summer vacations, sports, etc. till August in the U.S. As a good chunk of players are in the U.S. it is logical to see a drop here.
    4. People leaving due to quality of the last updates.

    I think that about covers it fairly. Did I miss any other reasonable/logical points of significant value?
    I think you got the major ones

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  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=jalont;5028532]Hopefully they did leave. The forums have been less packed with crazies as wellQUOTE]

    Did you no read this thread...

  13. #53
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Easy.

    1) Update 19 - Nothing but bug fixes and quality of life improvements. The list of bug fixes should be at least 4 pages long. Included in these fixes is that every single item, spell, and ability has its bonus type specifically quantified to eliminate any possible confusion about what stacks with what.

    2) The expansion - Without changing the price, the expansion is...expanded. Instead of 2 adventure packs and 2 explorer areas, the expansion is bulked up to include: 6 adventure packs (5-6 quests each), 3 explorer areas, 4 raids.

    3) The Enhancement revamp is cancelled, because it's an irretrievable mess that never should have made alpha status. Instead, all classes have all of their PrEs implemented and taken to Tier3 (or Tier5, if it's set up like Archmage).

    4) Dump the entire epic TR program, and particularly eliminate even the slightest trace that the devs even considered for a microsecond stripping out people's hard-earned ED XP when TRing.

    5) Go ahead with the XP smoothing on TR2+. Spread out the burden currently lumped at 17-20, and spread it down to 12, so a much larger number of quests are available to get that XP.

    6) Split heroic and epic quest completions so that repeat counters are not affected for L20+ dungeons.

    7) Stop showing utter contempt for your customers. Yes, customers. Not players, CUSTOMERS. You know, those people who quite literally pay your salaries?

    The last one will be the hardest.
    Yes Please!!!!!

    But.....but LEAVE THE DEVS ALONE!!!!

  14. #54
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Easy.

    1) Update 19 - Nothing but bug fixes and quality of life improvements. The list of bug fixes should be at least 4 pages long. Included in these fixes is that every single item, spell, and ability has its bonus type specifically quantified to eliminate any possible confusion about what stacks with what.

    2) The expansion - Without changing the price, the expansion is...expanded. Instead of 2 adventure packs and 2 explorer areas, the expansion is bulked up to include: 6 adventure packs (5-6 quests each), 3 explorer areas, 4 raids.

    3) The Enhancement revamp is cancelled, because it's an irretrievable mess that never should have made alpha status. Instead, all classes have all of their PrEs implemented and taken to Tier3 (or Tier5, if it's set up like Archmage).

    4) Dump the entire epic TR program, and particularly eliminate even the slightest trace that the devs even considered for a microsecond stripping out people's hard-earned ED XP when TRing.

    5) Go ahead with the XP smoothing on TR2+. Spread out the burden currently lumped at 17-20, and spread it down to 12, so a much larger number of quests are available to get that XP.

    6) Split heroic and epic quest completions so that repeat counters are not affected for L20+ dungeons.

    7) Stop showing utter contempt for your customers. Yes, customers. Not players, CUSTOMERS. You know, those people who quite literally pay your salaries?

    The last one will be the hardest.
    This. A hundred times, this!

    This deserves its own thread it's that good. It need not be buried on the second page of a downer thread. Get this stuff up front and center, man! :3

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Endgame is dead because this is a seven year old game, and non-casual players have grinded all the content. I would love to hear your suggestions on how to better a DDO endgame that doesn't revolve around PvP. This simple fact is that TRing is the endgame because we don't have PvP. If you add some more endgame packs, that'll keep me in endgame an extra week. If you lower drop rates and lower endgame XP, that'll keep me around for an extra month.

    Perhaps the vision you see for DDO endgame isn't possible, and that's why TRing is the DDO endgame.
    You pretty much hit the nail on the head. If end game content is max level content, that's a very limited amount of content. You basically just end up farming what you need for gear then sit around bored waiting for the next content update. Even if they add some new quests or make drops more rare...its just a very limited expansion of the amount of time you'll spend at "end game." TR allows every quest in the game to become end game content. Having hundreds of quests my character can benefit from is much more appealing then having a half dozen.

  16. #56
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    I'll admit I haven't read every post in this thread, but there seems to be a heavy focus on "log-ins." I'm thinking this particular statistic is a relatively poor way to measure anything to do with population except in the most general sense, here's some of the things that bother me about it...

    •I log-in usually a couple times a day, so I'm sure others do too.
    •Does relogging after a dc inflate the log-in count?
    •Multi-boxers mean multiple log-ins/per actual boxing player.
    •Probably other factors slipping my mind ATM.

    This all leads me to believe that the log-in count is both a poor and artificially high means of determining population. Sure, it's an indicator of activity, and more or less activity can give a sense of more or less players, but only loosely. Forgive me if this has already been addressed and I missed it, but on the chance it wasn't I thought I'ld bring it up...

    Is there any other way than constantly swapping servers (further hiking the log-in rate) & taking a tally of the "who" list (which still wouldn't account for multi-boxers) to get a decently accurate sense of true player population? While I'm of the firm belief that the population in general is shrinking, I've no clue at what rate nor do I have any real proof; it's just my impression, one which seems to be shared by many others.

    Very often when I see this (shrinking population) subject brought up, a common response is "what proof do you have?" as though a lack of proof somehow dismisses the possibility; even though they're equally unable to prove their own position.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-26-2013 at 01:39 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Easy.

    1) Update 19 - Nothing but bug fixes and quality of life improvements. The list of bug fixes should be at least 4 pages long. Included in these fixes is that every single item, spell, and ability has its bonus type specifically quantified to eliminate any possible confusion about what stacks with what.

    2) The expansion - Without changing the price, the expansion is...expanded. Instead of 2 adventure packs and 2 explorer areas, the expansion is bulked up to include: 6 adventure packs (5-6 quests each), 3 explorer areas, 4 raids.

    3) The Enhancement revamp is cancelled, because it's an irretrievable mess that never should have made alpha status. Instead, all classes have all of their PrEs implemented and taken to Tier3 (or Tier5, if it's set up like Archmage).

    4) Dump the entire epic TR program, and particularly eliminate even the slightest trace that the devs even considered for a microsecond stripping out people's hard-earned ED XP when TRing.

    5) Go ahead with the XP smoothing on TR2+. Spread out the burden currently lumped at 17-20, and spread it down to 12, so a much larger number of quests are available to get that XP.

    6) Split heroic and epic quest completions so that repeat counters are not affected for L20+ dungeons.

    7) Stop showing utter contempt for your customers. Yes, customers. Not players, CUSTOMERS. You know, those people who quite literally pay your salaries?

    The last one will be the hardest.
    Pretty much this, but since WB took over DDO's fate is sealed.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Endgame is dead because this is a seven year old game, and non-casual players have grinded all the content. I would love to hear your suggestions on how to better a DDO endgame that doesn't revolve around PvP. This simple fact is that TRing is the endgame because we don't have PvP. If you add some more endgame packs, that'll keep me in endgame an extra week. If you lower drop rates and lower endgame XP, that'll keep me around for an extra month.

    Perhaps the vision you see for DDO endgame isn't possible, and that's why TRing is the DDO endgame.
    A lot of players I PUG with still don't have all the EE items and stuff they want, even this far out from the last major update. It's not that people have grinded everything in the first 'loot bonus' week before patch 1, although changing the loot drop rate to be consistent over time would help. It's the fact that most players don't run EE because they are afraid of failure and in a game with diminishing population, there are less herds in which to hide.

    Before, you would at least get gimpy types trying to join EE runs, but now it's like they are firmly in their place and don't even bother. Those people are the majority of players too, they just enjoy the easier, no-fail experience of EH/EH, they don't have the knowledge or skills to be effective in EE's. Part of that problem is that there aren't enough players in general running around for them to see cool EE loot on and be encouraged to try to take their game up to the next level.

    That's only part of the picture of course, the way grouping works seriously hurts the development of scenes as well. There needs to be a reward system that makes it profitable for players who are capable of grouping together right now, to actually do so and not just stick to channel runs and solo'ing. At the end of the day unless players are somehow forced out of their comfort zones, the game will continue to stagnate and all the little islands of excusivity will be dead monuments to nothing.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    So let me get this right; pointing out realities that probably should be dealt with by the Devs (advertizing, shaking out some of the very negative things they've done lately, revamping end game so there is actually something to do at cap) is "hating"?

    I think it's funny what incredible lengths some people will go through to continue believing what they want to believe instead of what's actually happening and has become apparent to most people playing, and in actual objective measurements like logins tracked by DDO tracker.

    For example one person says that 2 week data point in late winter long after the last years update but before epic GH, being around 17500, makes it so there's no decline apparent in a visual graph where even a young child could distinguish a downward trend... despite the fact that the graph is solidly around 15000 or lower now (mostly lower than that actually). This is a 15% drop all by itself. Comparing to a "peak" for example when eGH came out, and things were rocking along more, there's a 25% decline. Actually it's closer to 28% but I am rounding down and I am counting Thelanis and Khyber with more weight than the other servers, which is generous to the opposition on my part.

    If we had more exacting numbers (averages between the servers at each data point) I would not be surprised if the game is down 30% because most of the servers are dipping well below what Khyber and Thelanis are I am letting the most populated 2 servers drag all the others up... but that doesn't matter 25% is a huge number, and doesn't need to be painted any worse.
    Some people are so desperate for attention and a response, they will do or say anything. I wouldn't make the mistake of equating that with any genuine expression of opinion or display of emotion. There are many people who use these forums as a tool for getting taken notice of, even if that attention more often than not consists of a kick back into the corner. The trick is to identify them early and relegate them to the 'junk mail' folder.

  20. #60
    Community Member Theboz's Avatar
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    I came back to DDO at the beginning of the year or just after FOT came out. I have played since the beginning on ADAR and now on Sarlona except for a period of time between when DDO went free until this year. What I see now, what I have never seen in my years of playing, mostly at night(3rd shifter) 24 lfms at 245am. 24 LFMs I would not see that during the day a couple years ago, maybe one or two LFMs max. DDO seems pretty healthy to me. People who complain about disconnects, or lag usually have a problem on their end of the connection, not DDO. I once belong to that group myself, until I made some changes to my computer and all is well, have not had any disconnects since going to 64bit from 32bit. As for bugs I don't let them ruin my game time, I don't dwell on the little things.
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