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  1. #1
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    Default Epic Sword and board pally tank

    Right now I have a 27% double strike, cleave and great cleave and am using a bastard sword. That is as a HoTD and only have my first rank in Draconic incarnation. Now my intention with this build was to keep it HoTD till I leveled my ED's then swap to Defender and grab my DPS from ED's however with my main focus being on my TR lately I really haven't paid a lot of attention to the ED's beyond just grinding through them. My main goal is to build a toon that can tank well. I must stay first life. I would like to stay pure pally but am tempted to do the pally monk thing.

    So here are a few of my thoughts/questions. Go see Fred and swap bastard sword for Kopesh. I know kopesh is generally a better weapon but the bastard sword is supposed to get a sword and board bonus isn't it? Either way there seems to be a better selection of Epic Kopeshes than bswords. Is this a correct assumption?

    So if just a small feat change is all I did what would be a good route to go with ED's? I currently have enough fate points to have a teir 3 and a tier 2 twist which I currently use for Endless LOH and Hail of Blows but say if I wanted to run some EE what would be my best choice at this point.

    My ED chart looks like Level 5 Dreadnought, Fury and sentinel, Level 4 Shadowdancer and level 3 everything else but draconic and magister.

    I want to try this and see what I get and if still not satisfied then I might think about a full restoration. But will ask about that later.
    My Main is a 7th life Pure Druid - Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  2. #2
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    Personally I feel its a pretty close contest between Khopesh and Bastard Sword if running sword and board, being a pure pali I am assuming you aren't running any two handed fighting feats which add to glancing bows when using a Bastard Sword and a shield, therefore Khopeshes may be a little ahead.

    I actually think there is a better selection of Epic Bastard Swords vs Epic Khopeshes though so this in itself could push towards Bastard Swords.
    If you look at the CitW weapons there is the Nightmare the Fallen Moon Bastard sword on trash this is streets ahead of any Khopesh you could find.
    If I was planning on running CitW then I would be looking to acquire one of these.
    Toons:
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    Emmpeethree, Hyperkill Hyperthrill and Greyvegas (All on Khyber)

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Glancing blows seem to be the determining factor in S&B b.sword vs khopesh DPS; in particular, whether or not you have GTHF. With it, it looks like b.sword pulls ahead, esp. if you use Nightmare; w/out it, the difference appears marginal or favors khopesh.

    That said, pure pally tanks are so feat-starved, I'd suggest using scimitars (or rapiers) instead of either exotic if not going for full THF chain.

  4. #4
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Glad I read this. I was wondering if, by taking Khopesh, I had really dorked myself by not going Basterd Sword. Now, it appears, I didn't. Maybe marginally, but not majorly.

  5. #5

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    Bastard sword + Tower Shield is best combo if you are going full with 2h feats and tower shield/shield mastery path (from enhancement and ED unyielding sentinel). I maxed them all and working on getting perfect 2h feat to improve it even more and get twist of fate skills (barbarian) to get more improvement to 2h makes you AWESOME Area of Effect tank equipped with guardian armor for lot of damage by many mobs on you trying to touch either hit or miss will get damaged badly in return while you mow them town with your deadly AOE melee damage 180 degree in front of you.. It's amazing.. Tower shield along with high HP will easily allow you to tank so many mobs against you at once to maximize your dps against many mobs at once. I have AOEing members of my party so it adds up nicely. I do have 150 AC along with 167 PRR and over 1,300 hp that makes job easy as AOE tank.

  6. #6
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I disagree with several of the posters here. I think sword and board unless a finesse build has to use either bastard sword or dwarven war axe. With the addition of perfect two handed fighting that is just far too much dps and hate to give up. I would also recommend splashing fighter/monk levels for more feats so you can fit it in these feats.

    I like 15 paladin 3 monk 2 fighter and go with a heavy shield and light armor and use a bastard sword or dwarven war axe if dwarf. That is my favorite S&B tank build right now.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I disagree with several of the posters here. I think sword and board unless a finesse build has to use either bastard sword or dwarven war axe.
    Bear in mind OP and most of the comments were pre-U19. Obviously, S&B build advice will need to be redone.

    What I would like to be able to do - presuming we finally get Dwarven Defender at some point and it apes Stalwart Defender tree - is something like dwarf pal 15 / ftr 2 / monk 2 (undecided on final lvl) w/S&B abilities from DD (like Shield Striking and Block & Cut), DPS & survivability bonuses from KotC, and some dwarven racial enhs to round things out. I'd have 14 feats (7 heroic + 2 ftr + 2 monk + 3 epic): that's enough for THF x3, SM/ISM/ISB, PA/CL/GC/OC, IC:Slash, with 3 left over to play around with (e.g., Toughness+eToughness, CE, a couple of metamagics or tactics feats, Epic DR or Blinding Speed). For ED feats I'd want PTHF and either Elusive Target or PTWF (+5% doublestrike, doesn't seem to matter if you're dual-wielding or not).

  8. #8
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Bear in mind OP and most of the comments were pre-U19. Obviously, S&B build advice will need to be redone.

    What I would like to be able to do - presuming we finally get Dwarven Defender at some point and it apes Stalwart Defender tree - is something like dwarf pal 15 / ftr 2 / monk 2 (undecided on final lvl) w/S&B abilities from DD (like Shield Striking and Block & Cut), DPS & survivability bonuses from KotC, and some dwarven racial enhs to round things out. I'd have 14 feats (7 heroic + 2 ftr + 2 monk + 3 epic): that's enough for THF x3, SM/ISM/ISB, PA/CL/GC/OC, IC:Slash, with 3 left over to play around with (e.g., Toughness+eToughness, CE, a couple of metamagics or tactics feats, Epic DR or Blinding Speed). For ED feats I'd want PTHF and either Elusive Target or PTWF (+5% doublestrike, doesn't seem to matter if you're dual-wielding or not).
    If dwarf swap out bastard sword for shield mastery. I like stunning blow just not sure it will be high enough to be worthwhile. Epic DR is a waste on a sword and board in unyielding they just have mega physical resistance as is. CE is a possibility to instead of overwhelming critical or epic toughness - anyway just depends on what the build needs.
    Human shield mastery
    1 fighter bastard sword
    2 fighter spring attack
    monk 1 dodge
    monk 2 mobility
    1. power attack
    3. cleave
    6 great cleave
    9 two handed
    12 improved two handed
    15 greater two handed
    18 improved shield mastery
    21 improved shield mastery
    24 overwhelming critical
    26 Epic skill focus intimidate/toughness
    27 force of personality/epic toughness
    28 perfect two handed fighting

    I like 3 monk for the shintao 5% healing amp and 10% positive spell power with core ability 2.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #9
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    excuse me swap improved shield mastery which I have typed twice with icrit slash.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  10. #10
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    If dwarf swap out bastard sword for shield mastery. I like stunning blow just not sure it will be high enough to be worthwhile. Epic DR is a waste on a sword and board in unyielding they just have mega physical resistance as is. CE is a possibility to instead of overwhelming critical or epic toughness - anyway just depends on what the build needs.
    I'm actually testing out Stunning Blow on my Paladin, just because I HAVE to know if you can get your DCs high enough with the change to divine might. However I level slowly so it could be a while before I can post any useful feedback.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    I'm actually testing out Stunning Blow on my Paladin, just because I HAVE to know if you can get your DCs high enough with the change to divine might. However I level slowly so it could be a while before I can post any useful feedback.
    Off-topic, but what do you think of ftr 12 / pal 4 / rgr 4? Ftr 12 for Power Surge + Keen Edge + Kensei DPS bonuses; pal 4 for Divine Grace + Might + other KotC goodies; rgr 4 for feats + Ram's Might + 10% offhand proc (if TWF). I know everyone's all about the centered monk / Kensei these days; just trying to come up with something a little different.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Off-topic, but what do you think of ftr 12 / pal 4 / rgr 4? Ftr 12 for Power Surge + Keen Edge + Kensei DPS bonuses; pal 4 for Divine Grace + Might + other KotC goodies; rgr 4 for feats + Ram's Might + 10% offhand proc (if TWF). I know everyone's all about the centered monk / Kensei these days; just trying to come up with something a little different.
    Fighter 12 is really strong, so you can't go wrong with that. As for splashing Paladin, your smites and LoH are going to be hardly worth bothering with. Divine Might and Courage of Heaven seem like the best things to grab from the Knight tree with a low level splash. However without smites being worth it, you'll have to waste 4 APs on tier 1, just to grant access to Divine Might, making Divine Might really cost 10APs. That seems pretty pricey to me. So it doesn't make sense to me, unless you want 2 Paladin levels for the bonus to saves.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  13. #13
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The idea is Exalted Smite is for the crit bonus, not so much the static bonus dmg (tho that helps). And it's really only one small part of the concept.

    In any case, I've put my idea into action - or at least a new build thread.

  14. #14
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The idea is Exalted Smite is for the crit bonus, not so much the static bonus dmg (tho that helps). And it's really only one small part of the concept.

    In any case, I've put my idea into action - or at least a new build thread.
    I figured you were think about going with exhalted smite. I'm curious what the crits will look like with Power Surge going. The build looks interesting. The true test is that you'll have to play test it to see how it works out
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    I figured you were think about going with exhalted smite. I'm curious what the crits will look like with Power Surge going. The build looks interesting. The true test is that you'll have to play test it to see how it works out
    Dang it, I knew there was a downside to coming up with all these builds! Why can't I find more guinea pigs willing to play-test them for me?!

  16. #16
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    dang it, i knew there was a downside to coming up with all these builds! Why can't i find more guinea pigs willing to play-test them for me?!
    lol
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  17. #17
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    If dwarf swap out bastard sword for shield mastery. I like stunning blow just not sure it will be high enough to be worthwhile. Epic DR is a waste on a sword and board in unyielding they just have mega physical resistance as is. CE is a possibility to instead of overwhelming critical or epic toughness - anyway just depends on what the build needs.
    Human shield mastery
    1 fighter bastard sword
    2 fighter spring attack
    monk 1 dodge
    monk 2 mobility
    1. power attack
    3. cleave
    6 great cleave
    9 two handed
    12 improved two handed
    15 greater two handed
    18 improved shield mastery
    21 improved shield mastery
    24 overwhelming critical
    26 Epic skill focus intimidate/toughness
    27 force of personality/epic toughness
    28 perfect two handed fighting

    I like 3 monk for the shintao 5% healing amp and 10% positive spell power with core ability 2.
    Think of trying this with a PDK, prob is no Lesser Reincarnations and only feat swaps could change order I think works. Also had to take into account that I have to add 1 level in terms of tomes. Also should be able to use most scrolls without fail.


    STR 13 (+2 to 4 tome upgrades)
    DEX 10 (+3 tome)
    CON 15 (+4 to 5 tome upgrades)
    INT 9 (+1 to 3 tome upgrades)
    WIS 8 (+3 to 4 tome upgrades)
    CHA 18(+level ups and +4 tome)

    1pdk,2-11paladin,12-13monk,14-15paladin,16fighter,17-19paladin,20paldin or monk?
    1 Human shield mastery
    1 fighter bastard sword
    1 power attack
    3 cleave
    6 great cleave
    9 two handed
    12 improved crit slash
    12 monk dodge
    13 monk mobility
    15 spring attack
    16 figher improved two handed
    18 greater two handed
    21 improved shield mastery
    24 ???
    26 Epic skill focus intimidate/toughness
    27 force of personality/epic toughness
    28 perfect two handed fighting

    As they build uses Charisma for hit and damage I cant take Overwhelming Critical. Not sure what to replace it with, but was think Empower Heal unless anyone has better.
    Last edited by HuneyMunster; 09-25-2013 at 08:00 PM.

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