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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the problem with a grouping bonus is that people aren't going to want to wait for a full group to run a quest. if people cant even wait 2 minutes for someone to grab ship buffs and run 10 feet outside the guild ship portal to the quest, people are going to be increasingly more griefy.

    would grouping bonus also include hires? if I wanted to solo a quest, could I still get a bonus if I bought 5 other hires? would the panther and owlbear count too? what if a group of 4 is tired of waiting for 2 more and wants to run the quest. would the 2 hires they pop before quest completion count?

    even if grouping bonus was the same bonus as BB, it wouldn't really solve anything. DS has made questing much easier than it used to be for experienced players. myself, I can elite streak solo or solo with a hire to 12 before I start joining groups for TS and Von 5. after that I can elite streak most of the quests to 20 the same way. its not that I am against grouping, its that I am able to do that and why go through the burden of an inexperienced player who refuses or is frustrated because he cant get groups for H/N so joins an elite group making things much tougher on the rest of us than needs to be.

    the problem lies in DS, quest xp and new/inexperienced players joining groups on higher difficulties before they are ready for it. that is why low xp/unpopular quests don't get run and why grouping can be difficult to fill. the focus should be aimed at those 3 things to fix, not BB or coming up with more xp boost suggestions to convince people to group with each other.
    Leaving the current elite BB and using it in conjunction with the idea would let those that do not want to group or even wait for a group benefit from the system as well as those that do want to group. And it would be a bonus for COMPLETING the quest, not for entering, so entering short shouldn't be an issue unless you complete, and even then, complete it short manned and still get your regular BB. Yes, I get that people will want first time elites still just in case, but if in a full group it wouldn't matter, you would get one or the other of the two bonuses.

    I see no reason to prohibit people that wish to spend TP on hires from solo'ing a quest with 4 gold seals and a regular hire and getting the bonus, that is more sales for the game and not really going to hurt anything. Those that wish to spend TP to get the higher bonus, let them. I also see no reason why shortmanning a quest with three hires and three players would matter either, it certainly isn't going to hurt the game if people want to run in selective groups or with family.

    Seriously, dungeon scaling affects me so little, that it is not even an issue for me. I still complete pretty much every quest I start either in a full group of PC's, solo, solo with hire and solo with several hires. Dungeon scaling is such a minor thing really that I don't honestly see where it even needs to be brought up, worried about it? Don't group and go with the standard Estreak bonus if you like.

    The problem with BB is that running the quests solo is much simpler for us experienced players, we don't have to worry about losing that 10% exp(5% really). Make give me even more experience to open my solo TR's leveling to all players, and I won't mind filling with new/inexperienced players, I am pretty sure that up until about level 13 or so I can mostly carry them if needed, not a real big deal, and guaranteed I can carry 5 people until level 8 for sure. By then maybe I would have met few good new players too, and the way it is right now, I don't even open LFM's until pre-teen content, and that is only for a few quests all the way to TR time.

    Just a means to incentivise grouping to make it more valuable than not grouping is. And seriously, there is no real reason to punish anyone that uses hires, whether Gold seal or not, they are harmless and really a non issue, and might make Turbine a few more bucks in an honest way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Codog View Post
    [*]Small evolutionary change that can be completed in shorter stretches of time is more readily achieveable for us than large _revolutionary_ change. Revolutionary change can be rather destabilizing from an engineering and balance perspective.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I have zero faith that a change would be anything other than a nerf. I don't think the devs have a snowballs chance in hades of getting it right.
    Which explains every post to date; personal bias. Do you have any valid reason for opposing this IF it wouldn't be a nerf?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by forummuleonly View Post
    Leaving the current elite BB and using it in conjunction with the idea would let those that do not want to group or even wait for a group benefit from the system as well as those that do want to group. And it would be a bonus for COMPLETING the quest, not for entering, so entering short shouldn't be an issue unless you complete, and even then, complete it short manned and still get your regular BB. Yes, I get that people will want first time elites still just in case, but if in a full group it wouldn't matter, you would get one or the other of the two bonuses.

    I see no reason to prohibit people that wish to spend TP on hires from solo'ing a quest with 4 gold seals and a regular hire and getting the bonus, that is more sales for the game and not really going to hurt anything. Those that wish to spend TP to get the higher bonus, let them. I also see no reason why shortmanning a quest with three hires and three players would matter either, it certainly isn't going to hurt the game if people want to run in selective groups or with family.

    Seriously, dungeon scaling affects me so little, that it is not even an issue for me. I still complete pretty much every quest I start either in a full group of PC's, solo, solo with hire and solo with several hires. Dungeon scaling is such a minor thing really that I don't honestly see where it even needs to be brought up, worried about it? Don't group and go with the standard Estreak bonus if you like.

    The problem with BB is that running the quests solo is much simpler for us experienced players, we don't have to worry about losing that 10% exp(5% really). Make give me even more experience to open my solo TR's leveling to all players, and I won't mind filling with new/inexperienced players, I am pretty sure that up until about level 13 or so I can mostly carry them if needed, not a real big deal, and guaranteed I can carry 5 people until level 8 for sure. By then maybe I would have met few good new players too, and the way it is right now, I don't even open LFM's until pre-teen content, and that is only for a few quests all the way to TR time.

    Just a means to incentivise grouping to make it more valuable than not grouping is. And seriously, there is no real reason to punish anyone that uses hires, whether Gold seal or not, they are harmless and really a non issue, and might make Turbine a few more bucks in an honest way.
    People wouldn't use hires, they'd multi-box most likely imo. You don't need that great of a computer to do it either, just run nircmd and away you go. My older computer can dual box no problem, a newer one could probably get a full party that way with no problems. It would just create more zonix's (might have spelled his name wrong)

  4. #204
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    Which explains every post to date; personal bias. Do you have any valid reason for opposing this IF it wouldn't be a nerf?
    Yup read the replies where I talk about power leveling, creating dead content, and how it would just create more multi-boxing. The solutions don't fix anything. If someone wants to put forth a solution that doesn't do more damage than good I'm all ears.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    But it really hurts LFM's with an effective max level range in 99% of LFM's advertized as "at level or two higher" or 10-12 for a 10th level quest.
    Maybe in the end it would be better for those who don't like the bravery bonus system to state the simple issue with the system, which in my case is basically quoted above (only the range I put up in the lfm 11-12 figuring lvl 10s would be working on 8 and 9 quests) and only take suggestions from those who do like the system and let them hash out solutions until one fits the best.

    Still very quickly discussions about game changes devolve and once you have stated your issues or disagreement as to whether what is stated is an issue generally the relevant portion of the discussion is over. In any case the only people that need convincing are the devs, not the other players and I believe they at least have heard about the issue by now.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    This is outside the scope of this thread.

    The thread is to discuss whether BB is a detriment or not. Myself, Duskofdead, and several others have pointed to an inherent flaw in the system (which is limiting the level range of quests to a severe detriment to being able to efficiently form groups), and others still have acknowledged that problem but also acknowledge they don't want to see BB go away for various reasons.

    This is what I want to discuss, and this is what this thread is for. Anything else is beyond the scope of this thread and I interpret that as an (intentional or not) attempt at derailing the discussion away from the subject at hand. This is not a thread to gripe about favor or repeat runs. Go make your own thread based on that topic if you feel that those are pertinent areas of discussion.
    Ok, I've seen two separate aspects of "grouping" identified in this thread as being adversely affected by BB:

    1) Prohibitively tight level range. While many of us don't seem to have an issue pugging up people to run in Quest level + 2 spread, others seem to have found it very difficult; not because they're looking for a "balanced party"(as all discussion of build/byoh/etc has been deemed irrelevant), just because the 3 level spread is too tight.

    2) An inability to pug for N/H difficulty. Because Bravery Bonous so heavily favors running Elite content once, then moving on to the next Elite quest, any lfm for Normal or Hard is doomed to languish in the lfm panel (if it ever shows up there).

    It might also be worth noting that while I see everyone talking about "grouping" it seems what they're more specifically trying to address is "pugging." Am I also correct on this?

    Before I make any further attempt to address the issue(s) at hand, let me first ask: Am I correctly understanding the problem(s) seeking to be addressed?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  7. #207
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forummuleonly View Post
    Seriously, dungeon scaling affects me so little, that it is not even an issue for me. I still complete pretty much every quest I start either in a full group of PC's, solo, solo with hire and solo with several hires. Dungeon scaling is such a minor thing really that I don't honestly see where it even needs to be brought up, worried about it? Don't group and go with the standard Estreak bonus if you like.
    I think you may have misunderstood me. DS was reduced to the point that a challenging norm or hard a few years ago became a cake walk. I do believe its one of the bigger culprits as to why people don't group as often for some quests. its one of the biggest reasons why I don't bother grouping and its not because im worried I might lose that small 10% xp bonus if someone dies or that im anti social. DS on elite fluctuates depending on the number of players in a group. its common for a group of say 3 experienced players short man an elite quest that is easier to accomplish than a group of 6. that can limit the number of groups that otherwise would try to fill.

    I bring up DS because I believe it to be one of the biggest causes for less grouping that many people complain about and I don't think we need to suggest more xp boosts to get more players to group together, especially when we already know there will be an adjustment to the xp curve soon. adjusting DS upwards a bit more on elite I think would pull more players together to group. soling an elite quest should be more of an accomplishment, not an expected completion that we have come to know now.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I bring up DS because I believe it to be one of the biggest causes for less grouping that many people complain about and I don't think we need to suggest more xp boosts to get more players to group together, especially when we already know there will be an adjustment to the xp curve soon. adjusting DS upwards a bit more on elite I think would pull more players together to group. soling an elite quest should be more of an accomplishment, not an expected completion that we have come to know now.
    Sadly, the op has stated time and again that he has no interest in discussing the broader subject of "Why lfms are hard to fill." He really only wants to discuss how to modify/change/whatever the BB system to make grouping(pugging?) more functional, as though somehow changing that one contributer to the problem will have some tremendous impact on it.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I think you may have misunderstood me. DS was reduced to the point that a challenging norm or hard a few years ago became a cake walk. I do believe its one of the bigger culprits as to why people don't group as often for some quests. its one of the biggest reasons why I don't bother grouping and its not because im worried I might lose that small 10% xp bonus if someone dies or that im anti social. DS on elite fluctuates depending on the number of players in a group. its common for a group of say 3 experienced players short man an elite quest that is easier to accomplish than a group of 6. that can limit the number of groups that otherwise would try to fill.

    I bring up DS because I believe it to be one of the biggest causes for less grouping that many people complain about and I don't think we need to suggest more xp boosts to get more players to group together, especially when we already know there will be an adjustment to the xp curve soon. adjusting DS upwards a bit more on elite I think would pull more players together to group. soling an elite quest should be more of an accomplishment, not an expected completion that we have come to know now.

    AH, I see. Yep, I misunderstood you. And I certainly agree with you, solo'ing elite anything should be an accomplishment, not a standard. I still don't really think DS would do much to help, in fact I think making it more difficult to complete as a solo player would be fine, but changing it to a point where grouping is required to complete it in those regards, and I think the end wouldn't change anything, people would still stay to channel/guild/core group/closed group runs. My idea would not discourage this, but would make it less bothersome to toss up an LFM when needed. And let's face it, we really need more noob/vet interaction and grouping in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Codog View Post
    [*]Small evolutionary change that can be completed in shorter stretches of time is more readily achieveable for us than large _revolutionary_ change. Revolutionary change can be rather destabilizing from an engineering and balance perspective.

  10. #210
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I think you may have misunderstood me. DS was reduced to the point that a challenging norm or hard a few years ago became a cake walk. I do believe its one of the bigger culprits as to why people don't group as often for some quests. its one of the biggest reasons why I don't bother grouping and its not because im worried I might lose that small 10% xp bonus if someone dies or that im anti social. DS on elite fluctuates depending on the number of players in a group. its common for a group of say 3 experienced players short man an elite quest that is easier to accomplish than a group of 6. that can limit the number of groups that otherwise would try to fill.

    I bring up DS because I believe it to be one of the biggest causes for less grouping that many people complain about and I don't think we need to suggest more xp boosts to get more players to group together, especially when we already know there will be an adjustment to the xp curve soon. adjusting DS upwards a bit more on elite I think would pull more players together to group. soling an elite quest should be more of an accomplishment, not an expected completion that we have come to know now.
    I hate dungeon scaling because I used to enjoy the extra challenge of soloing content that was meant to be run with a full group. When you shortmanned people would be more careful in the encounters knowing that wiping was likely. It is also true that you did reach a point more quickly where you needed a group. The main thing though I don't like about it is that scaling basically removed a difficulty option that went beyond elite.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Ok, I've seen two separate aspects of "grouping" identified in this thread as being adversely affected by BB:

    1) Prohibitively tight level range. While many of us don't seem to have an issue pugging up people to run in Quest level + 2 spread, others seem to have found it very difficult; not because they're looking for a "balanced party"(as all discussion of build/byoh/etc has been deemed irrelevant), just because the 3 level spread is too tight.

    2) An inability to pug for N/H difficulty. Because Bravery Bonous so heavily favors running Elite content once, then moving on to the next Elite quest, any lfm for Normal or Hard is doomed to languish in the lfm panel (if it ever shows up there).

    It might also be worth noting that while I see everyone talking about "grouping" it seems what they're more specifically trying to address is "pugging." Am I also correct on this?

    Before I make any further attempt to address the issue(s) at hand, let me first ask: Am I correctly understanding the problem(s) seeking to be addressed?
    I'm almost afraid of the response but yes you covered all the ground I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Sadly, the op has stated time and again that he has no interest in discussing the broader subject of "Why lfms are hard to fill." He really only wants to discuss how to modify/change/whatever the BB system to make grouping(pugging?) more functional, as though somehow changing that one contributer to the problem will have some tremendous impact on it.
    Too right. The key is to accurately identify the problem, not merely one alleged component of the problem. To claim that BB has a significant negative impact on grouping (pugging) is to invite discussion on other causes of unhappiness on the LFM scene. This is necessary to prove or disprove the validity of the OP's assertion, as well as to suss out possible solutions to the real problems hurting pugging.

    There are many other issues involved here. A lot of the grouping issues could be alleviated by broadening the player base, but who feels like avidly advocating the joys of DDO to the masses?

    I will stop here; there are just too many factors involved in the real problem to fit within the constraints of this thread topic.
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    To address a question asked a few times in this thread regarding whether BB directly impacts grouping, all I can say is... yes. If nothing else it affects MY grouping, because I tend to solo more because of BB and scaling. The current environment *I* feel, gives me much incentive to solo. I *assume* this is true for others, and that other people also solo for similar reasons, and if that's true, the net effect is fewer of us looking for groups, and therefor fewer groups available, which in turn promotes soloing (begin vicious cycle here).

    Between the 2 scaling may be the bigger factor, but I know I've personally turned down plenty of pugs while leveling a toon (all the toons I really play are capped right now, so less of an issue) because it would break my streak. I've even had that uncomfortable situation where you are forced to choose between grouping with friends or keeping your streak (I always choose friends, but not without grimacing).

    I also always felt like it was a problem that there is no incentive at all to run hard/elite except for first time. Once BB is done, normal farm if you bother to repeat at all.

    To me there is NO question that BB streak affects grouping and that it could be improved upon by removing the streak portion without negatively impacting the BB portion. I thought I put forward a pretty good proposal to address this, one that reduces incentives to solo (without making soloing unduly hard for those that need/want this option) and adds incentives to group. Remove streak, make up for it by allowing a couple repeats and upping base XP for hard/elite. Adjust DS to scale it back without making soloing impossible for many. It's really a fairly elegant compromise I think. It would also encourage more hard groups I think for those that aren't up for elite, which helps intermingle newer and veteran players to strengthen the community.

  14. #214
    Community Member locksmith's Avatar
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    So you all cry about how hard it is to get xp, and how hard it is to TR. So the Dev's listen to you and make it easy to level any toon no matter if its a cake life or a multi life TR. And now we are unhappy about it because it makes grouping hard?
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    To address a question asked a few times in this thread regarding whether BB directly impacts grouping, all I can say is... yes. If nothing else it affects MY grouping, because I tend to solo more because of BB and scaling. The current environment *I* feel, gives me much incentive to solo. I *assume* this is true for others, and that other people also solo for similar reasons, and if that's true, the net effect is fewer of us looking for groups, and therefor fewer groups available, which in turn promotes soloing (begin vicious cycle here).

    Between the 2 scaling may be the bigger factor, but I know I've personally turned down plenty of pugs while leveling a toon (all the toons I really play are capped right now, so less of an issue) because it would break my streak. I've even had that uncomfortable situation where you are forced to choose between grouping with friends or keeping your streak (I always choose friends, but not without grimacing).

    I also always felt like it was a problem that there is no incentive at all to run hard/elite except for first time. Once BB is done, normal farm if you bother to repeat at all.

    To me there is NO question that BB streak affects grouping and that it could be improved upon by removing the streak portion without negatively impacting the BB portion. I thought I put forward a pretty good proposal to address this, one that reduces incentives to solo (without making soloing unduly hard for those that need/want this option) and adds incentives to group. Remove streak, make up for it by allowing a couple repeats and upping base XP for hard/elite. Adjust DS to scale it back without making soloing impossible for many. It's really a fairly elegant compromise I think. It would also encourage more hard groups I think for those that aren't up for elite, which helps intermingle newer and veteran players to strengthen the community.
    I have to be honest here. Even if you completely removed the bravery bonuses I would still be likely to solo scaled elites because that is where I would probably get the most challenge. Now I can't solo all of the content to be sure but what I can do I enjoy more than grouping. If you removed scaling or made it optional I would be more likely to pug shortmanned runs on unscaled content because that would give me the most challenge.

    That doesn't mean that the bonuses don't affect the lfms that I post but the bonuses don't affect whether or not I post an lfm.

  16. #216
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locksmith View Post
    So you all cry about how hard it is to get xp, and how hard it is to TR. So the Dev's listen to you and make it easy to level any toon no matter if its a cake life or a multi life TR. And now we are unhappy about it because it makes grouping hard?
    people are unhappy about grouping because it gives a sense of a game dying when players cant get others to join their groups, cant fill a group or see a weak lfm group listing. theres been many doom threads about this kind of thing and in this particular thread some people think BB needs to be fixed, removed or changed in someway to get more players to group. even if its not about a dying game, some players want to group for the social aspect and some want to group because they have difficulty completing a quest solo. there is a problem with grouping and there has been a noticeable decrease on the lfm over the past couple years and the way grouping has changed due in large part of DS, maybe more my opinion than anyone elses I suppose. there are other factors involved having nothing to do with BB, DS or anything like that but they are more minor problems, if problems at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by locksmith View Post
    So you all cry about how hard it is to get xp, and how hard it is to TR. So the Dev's listen to you and make it easy to level any toon no matter if its a cake life or a multi life TR. And now we are unhappy about it because it makes grouping hard?
    Though it may be an unfair & unproductive generalization (that those complaining now are the same who complained before), essentially yes.

    Though more specifically, it's not "grouping" that's hard, but "pugging."

    Many players group almost exclusively through guild & channels, while many others prefer to solo.
    (For the sake of this discussion we're ignoring all such relevant truths.)

    The rest (myself included) prefer using the lfm panel to pug our groups. Many of us have noted a significant decline in the effectiveness of pugging, and this thread is trying to address that issue as much as possable by "fixing" the BB system, while ignoring the problems' many other contributors.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I want to respond to the rest of the thread, but I'm tired. However, I don't want to let this comment slide and watch as it potentially destroys an otherwise civil thread...
    First off, I want to apologize for my tone at the beginning of the thread. This is why I usually post from work, rather than posting from home after having a few drinks. ;-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
    I don't want a game where everyone in it is a monk splash direct damage melee or some similar concoction built almost entirely around personal self sufficiency but little to no team utility. The elephant in the room here is that so many people are building characters solely around being able to zerg through content as quickly as possible and get to next life and not for what they'd bring to a team effort, raid, or a quest that required a balanced party.
    The fallacy here is that you believe that these 'self sufficient' characters do not perform as well as a specialized character. In my experience, the vast majority of players who strive so hard to 'fit a role' end up either as a soulstone or a near piker in the difficult content, while those who have built in some defense ability as well perform very nearly as well, if not better due to superior gear, and continue to contribute with a backpack full of soulstones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I beg to differ. The game was a very different place prior to BB coming into play, and I don't recall running into these problems as severely as I do now. But neither of us can prove either argument, can we?
    In my observations, it was not immediately after Bravery Bonus was added that public grouping took a massive shift for the worse. It was around four or five months after that, around the time leading up to Update 14 when news of the major game changes was coming out, that the major shift took place. Which coincided with a the demographic of the game making a massive shift as many players left and some new players became aware or interested in DDO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I simply feel that an environment that is tailored to self-sufficiency over a balanced group because zerging it and not waiting for a balanced party is more efficient potentially (key word here) bars flavour or non-optimized builds from groups. Those players may be better off not grouping with the kind of people who would exclude them, but why should the game foster that kind of environment anyways?
    Because DDO is a game with very few relative advantages over other MMOs out there. Namely, the Eberron D&D campaign setting license, hand crafted and thoughtfully laid out quests (some more than others), and a very rich and diverse choice of build options that are inspired (can't really claim based on) by Dungeons and Dragons. Any time that you are given choices in how to build a character you are also given the opportunity to screw things up.

    Many people choose to make characters that take advantage of class features and also bring in options to make up for their shortcomings. You focus on the effects of this in Heroic, or leveling content, as if it were the sole reason for people doing this. But in reality, by the time that you get to the top level Epic Elite content, a character who can not survive between group heals and also manage to cover themselves in an emergency is a liability to the group. This is the way that a D&D game which offers such amazing build flexibility should operate, rather than trying to force the diverse build options that Dungeons and Dragons has always offered into narrow MMO roles.




    To get back to the main topic of this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    No one here has said they want to be able to powerlevel nor to do quests they are overleveled for without any penalty. If you feel otherwise, then quote it and prove me wrong.
    It may not be intended, but that is exactly what your 'solution' promotes. It rewards going back to the old style of grinding a quest out on Normal until your repetition penalties get to be too high, and then coming back to get your (extremely massive, under this suggestion) 'First time Hard' and 'First time Elite' bonuses once you are higher level and it is even easier. This is what the original suggestion rewards, and it is exactly what Bravery Bonus was implemented in order to avoid. The only difference between this suggestion and pre-BB is that people are handed out even more XP for doing the exact same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    2) decrement streaks instead of erasing them. Doing this wouldn't hurt the actual BB mechanic but would greatly reduce the stressing about it.
    This would indeed be a good way to mitigate the psychological effect of 'breaking streak', which seems to be what stops quite a few people from joining groups that they otherwise might.


    I think that an even better way to achieve the objectives of promoting a variety of content and also rewarding players to challenge themselves would be to reinstitute the under level bonus that existed many years ago. This would make it so that a character at a given level would have a much wider range of quests to choose from, depending on how they felt like playing, and just how much 'risk' they wanted to take on by attempting a quest that is much higher level than they are. However, when looking for systems changes the developers chose to design bravery bonus rather than reviving that one, so it would seem that they do not agree.

  19. #219
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    I think that an even better way to achieve the objectives of promoting a variety of content and also rewarding players to challenge themselves would be to reinstitute the under level bonus that existed many years ago. This would make it so that a character at a given level would have a much wider range of quests to choose from, depending on how they felt like playing, and just how much 'risk' they wanted to take on by attempting a quest that is much higher level than they are. However, when looking for systems changes the developers chose to design bravery bonus rather than reviving that one, so it would seem that they do not agree.
    The problem imo with the under level bonus is the levels the quests are at now. Underlevel bonuses were eliminated when the cap was much lower if I understand right. This means that if you tried to do underlevel bonuses currently you'd probably be out of xp at 19 on a legend life and have to farm challenges and slayers to hit 20. This means that unless the underlevel bonus was so absolutely massive to almost be op, it would be a noob trap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    This means that if you tried to do underlevel bonuses currently you'd probably be out of xp at 19 on a legend life and have to farm challenges and slayers to hit 20. This means that unless the underlevel bonus was so absolutely massive to almost be op, it would be a noob trap.
    This is a very valid point. The obvious solution would be to remove the level 20 limit on Epic quests, which would have very little actual impact since it is routinely bypassed currently.

    There would also need to be a good variety of content at the max level in order for this to work. And given the apparent direction that Turbine is working in, selling a new 'expansion' every year that raises the level cap rather than cultivating meaningful endgame content, the idea of underlevel bonuses does not really mesh well with Turbine's current design vision. But still, if they slowed down the mad power rush and filled out the epic levels before racing past them I think that it would make for a solution that gives players more choice as to what to run, as well as rewarding good play rather than efficient zerging.

    Although, it does not really breath new life into the dying LFM pannel. I do not believe that anything but a shift in player demographics, not game systems, will actually do that. Most remaining vets are more or less entrenched in their guild/channel runs.

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