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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.
    Depends what you're trying to run and whether you're expecting LFMs or putting up your own. I don't usually have an issue, but you need to realize that many who are running XP efficiently are running everything 2 levels over with BB, so they won't hit level 18 - 19 content until they're 20 and 21 respectively. I didn't do Amrath until 21, and didn't need to to hit 20 with very little re-running.

    Inspired Quarter is pretty popular for XP once you get closer to cap, as they are short quests.

  2. #22
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Depends what you're trying to run and whether you're expecting LFMs or putting up your own. I don't usually have an issue, but you need to realize that many who are running XP efficiently are running everything 2 levels over with BB, so they won't hit level 18 - 19 content until they're 20 and 21 respectively. I didn't do Amrath until 21, and didn't need to to hit 20 with very little re-running.

    Inspired Quarter is pretty popular for XP once you get closer to cap, as they are short quests.
    Good points. OP if you are waiting for LFMs in the 17-20 level range, then yeah, they will be few and far between. As you can see from the responses in this thread a lot of TR-train xp/min minded players won't bother with quests in this range.


    If you are posting your own LFMs, you shouldn't have problems getting two or three other players for Mindsunder, Dreaming Dark, Druid's Deep, and Lord of Eyes chains. There are players out there who want to run this content, but a lot of them are reluctant to post an LFM.
    Last edited by Postumus; 06-21-2013 at 03:32 PM.

  3. #23
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Fascinating.

    I guess I made a fatal mistake then; one that I did not forsee with TR'ing. In the past, I have always gone from level to level the moment I had the XP I needed, but now, after reading this, I realized that it may be best not to anymore. It may also explain a few things; From levels 1-12, it wasn't too bad, but after that, it slowly got harder and harder. To me, seeing Turbine curb XP at levels 17-20 is a bit absurd, in my opinion. It's a weak spot in the game that should be patched.

    I guess I have now learned one thing from all of this: Bank XP, especially when you hit level 17-18. Thanks for the input.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Fascinating.

    I guess I made a fatal mistake then; one that I did not forsee with TR'ing. In the past, I have always gone from level to level the moment I had the XP I needed, but now, after reading this, I realized that it may be best not to anymore. It may also explain a few things; From levels 1-12, it wasn't too bad, but after that, it slowly got harder and harder. To me, seeing Turbine curb XP at levels 17-20 is a bit absurd, in my opinion. It's a weak spot in the game that should be patched.

    I guess I have now learned one thing from all of this: Bank XP, especially when you hit level 17-18. Thanks for the input.
    If you have access to all the packs, holding levels shouldn't be really necessary until you start hitting the GH quests. Personally, I like hold levels anyway, but I'm not a speedy leveler.

    And yes, usually leveling starts to slow a bit for many players around level 12. One of the reasons is that the number of quests from level 1 to 11 is double that found from level 12 to 19. In fact, the number of quests in the levels 2 to 11 individually is practically double that found in levels 12 to 19 individually. So there's a lack of variety available after level 11 or 12. So if you dislike a quest in the level range, you may still need to run it because it's needed to flag for other quests or you need/want the XP to level.

    With the Shadowfell expansion, they are alleviating some of the pain in these levels though by adding some level 16 quests. Hopefully they will be decent XP. Also they claim to be working on making some XP changes that may or may not help...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Oh boy, IQ and Dreaming Dark elite is a cakewalk on multi life DC caster but suicide on "average" melee.

    OP, most people farm the hell out of GH, Necro 4, Litany, Von 3, Rwtd, OOB/Maraud, Wiz king, and start banking around Shadowcrypt/Delera 4/Xorian.
    After elite Vale, you are kinda out of luck, except Sane Asylum, ETK and Monastery farms and maybe one fast normal round of IQ and DD.
    Unless you use xp pots like candy or want to do stupid stuff like slayers/explorers for 300 billion hours.
    I don't think explorers are stupid... In fact I gained my LAST 3 ranks on 3 lives in a row just with them now. Of course it helps that I know all high level explorer areas by heart and don't waste any time checking wiki maps or anything. Still the exp from "first time" walk around (just to grab all explorers, whatever rares are up and as many kills I can get, usually 200) is much higher than any quest with bravery bonus at levels 18-20, you get a little chunks of exp from monster manuals too, especially if you are VIP. If you go for something ridiculous like 7500 kills exp/minute ratio is very low, of course, but first time run for explorers is not stupid

  6. #26
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Like some others have said; I too bank my xp at level 18.
    Not only that but I do that at level 16 as well.
    So both level 17 and 19 are "skipped".
    Not much going on at those levels for your char anyway.

    Your best bet for xp would be The Vale, I always see a LFM up for S/R/E.

    Try to have a streak going together with xp buffs, it realy does help.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  7. #27
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gempoult View Post
    I don't think explorers are stupid... In fact I gained my LAST 3 ranks on 3 lives in a row just with them now. Of course it helps that I know all high level explorer areas by heart and don't waste any time checking wiki maps or anything. Still the exp from "first time" walk around (just to grab all explorers, whatever rares are up and as many kills I can get, usually 200) is much higher than any quest with bravery bonus at levels 18-20, you get a little chunks of exp from monster manuals too, especially if you are VIP. If you go for something ridiculous like 7500 kills exp/minute ratio is very low, of course, but first time run for explorers is not stupid
    Totally agreed. In two outings into Vale (that's the other nice thing about explorers, you can run them solo for 10-15min before work or whatever... or even at work There's no real commitment to time) I gained ~15-18k in about 20 min time solo. Almost 40k in 40 min is not bad, especially solo.

    I've also joined a full group and quaffed a couple slayer boost pots I got in daily rolls. In an hour, we racked up an enormous amount of kills... don't remember the exact number, but it was enough to get me over 1500 kills and was worth 50k xp with greater tome. And that doesn't count the various rares and monster manual bonuses you will get from that many kills. Even rare repeats add up quickly at 500xp each.

    It's not a waste of time if you play smart, take advantage of the free pots from daily rolls, time management, etc. And it's definitely worth rolling into every wilderness to pick the low hanging fruit. It doesn't take long at all to get a few explorers, rares, and maybe 100-200 kills.

  8. #28
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Can't really address the OP's issues. I run most quests in guild-only groups. I have little trouble finding a group for questing at any level.
    There is no free lunch.

  9. #29
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Fascinating.

    I guess I made a fatal mistake then; one that I did not forsee with TR'ing. In the past, I have always gone from level to level the moment I had the XP I needed, but now, after reading this, I realized that it may be best not to anymore. It may also explain a few things; From levels 1-12, it wasn't too bad, but after that, it slowly got harder and harder. To me, seeing Turbine curb XP at levels 17-20 is a bit absurd, in my opinion. It's a weak spot in the game that should be patched.

    I guess I have now learned one thing from all of this: Bank XP, especially when you hit level 17-18. Thanks for the input.
    Absolutely yes. I start banking xp around von3-shadow crypt farming (so lvl11). And once i've run every decent lvl 15 quest, i take 18 even if not fully capped (but usually pretty close to 19 anyway) and start running vale elites; depending on which life i'm on i could drop to hard streak for running with the devils, then monastery farm, enter the kobold farm, sane asylum farm and maybe some IQ1+2 if i'm still missing xp ( for iq1+2 absolutely drop to hard streak if you aren't a caster with a nice DC, mobs on elite got loads of HP and you are just wasting time running them on elite).

    The real problem is that there are 4 quests worth running for the last million xp: running with the devils, enter the kobold, monastery and sane asylum. Everything else is pretty much something you run cause you have to somehow compensate for the huge amount of xp required, but there's really nothing else that is good xp/min. Some quests(iq1-2) are decent, some quests are just plainly not worth the effort (house C elites, Amrath elites).
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Can't really address the OP's issues. I run most quests in guild-only groups. I have little trouble finding a group for questing at any level.
    Uh, congratulations? Do you want a cookie?

    I usually hold levels from 6 or 7 until 20. That last stretch is brutal, especially for puggers. I think everyone's addressed the big issues already, but what really bugs me is that there was a lot of feedback after MOTU about how that break at 20 killed so much content. Why run Amrath or House C (assuming you want to run either of those) at 19, when you could do them at 21 with some epic gear and an ED? No one's running those raids at-level anyway, so there's no reason not to tackle them when it's less of a PITA for everyone.

    The easiest thing to do is drop your streak and do a little hard and normal farms. You can disguise them as teaching runs if you know the quests and want a group, but any moderately geared, decently built toon should be able to grab a hire and finish 3/4s of the 17-19 quests.

  11. #31
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    I feel that there's three issues compounding grouping at any level range (but none more so than the higher levels):

    1) Not enough quests in that level range. There's fewer quests to run, the quests are generally much harder, and there's only a very small fraction of quests that are free to play. This means that there's a fewer pool of players to draw on, since FTPs are excluded and many of the packs cost more TP than you can earn with favor on a single character with only FTP quests.

    2) Bravery Bonus. I feel that this is the bane of grouping. I've lead quests before and often when I advertise that the run is only Normal or Elite, someone tries to "hijack" the quest and will often run to the quest entrance and put it on Elite because they don't want to lose their Bravery streak. There's too much hostility towards people for not doing the Bravery Bonus, much like how I remember people getting super hostile about someone dying in a quest and "losing" the 10% bonus for not dying. It needs to go, it's toxic to the game.

    3) People don't want to lead. This is a problem endemic in every MMO. There's a large group of people who want to group (and sometimes I even see two separate groups up for the same quest!) that do NOT want to join up. Or neither group wants to lead. It's harder to form groups because fewer people are willing to lead, which is understandable if you're not familiar with the quest. But I think we'd have more groups around if more people are willing to group or to be proactive in making a group.

    I was going to include player attitudes as a major problem with grouping (since efficiency and speed > all, what with everyone taking a splash of monk for various reasons), but that's another topic for another day. :3

  12. #32
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    Uh, congratulations? Do you want a cookie?...
    You has cookies?
    There is no free lunch.

  13. #33
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I feel that there's three issues compounding grouping at any level range (but none more so than the higher levels):

    1) Not enough quests in that level range.

    2) Bravery Bonus.

    3) People don't want to lead.
    1. I agree, the amount of XP in level 17-20 quests (Especially 18-19 or so) is not enough for what's available without having to scrape the bottom of the XP barrel. More quests with more XP is a must for these level ranges. Perhaps the new expansion will aim to address that, but im being hopeful at this point, it probably will not.

    2. Bravery bonus I believe was something that was intended as good but turned out to be bad. I think it would be much better to just increase the base XP of ALL quests by 25% or so. Quests are injected with so many bonuses currently its not even funny. I think it should be demolished in order to encourage players to do quests at the difficulty they desire. Any kind of incentive to run a quest on hard/elite multiple times without doing a lower difficulty, whether it be loot, XP, or other bonuses will always alienate the playerbase in some way.

    3. This is a big problem I face as well, mostly because either I don't know the content too well, or responsibility issues. Being a leader carries responsibilities that I fear to face. However, I did manage to at least overcome this problem for now to try and reach out for XP my character has.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  14. #34
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    1. I agree, the amount of XP in level 17-20 quests (Especially 18-19 or so) is not enough for what's available without having to scrape the bottom of the XP barrel. More quests with more XP is a must for these level ranges. Perhaps the new expansion will aim to address that, but im being hopeful at this point, it probably will not.
    I honestly loved the 4 quests that lead up to FR. They were all free, they were fun, and they helped fill a void of quests for the level range. I was hoping that the prequel quests for Shadowfell would be as good and free as well but, alas, only 2 of them are. I would like to see more quest lines like the Harbinger of Madness lines available for the 15-17 range, as I know on my first life I ground the **** out of those quests on Hard / Elite when I was at level 19 just to get those final few ranks.

    2. Bravery bonus I believe was something that was intended as good but turned out to be bad. I think it would be much better to just increase the base XP of ALL quests by 25% or so. Quests are injected with so many bonuses currently its not even funny. I think it should be demolished in order to encourage players to do quests at the difficulty they desire. Any kind of incentive to run a quest on hard/elite multiple times without doing a lower difficulty, whether it be loot, XP, or other bonuses will always alienate the playerbase in some way.
    Well what I notice a lot about the player base is that they want to zerg a quest and finish it as quickly as possible to move on to the next quest. And they want to do it so they maintain and benefit from their streak. However, they tend to miss things like Conquest, Ransack, Ingenious Debilitation, and the like, just by blitzing stuff. So people have effectively traded one bonus for another, and unfortunately this new one is poisonous to the game.

    3. This is a big problem I face as well, mostly because either I don't know the content too well, or responsibility issues. Being a leader carries responsibilities that I fear to face. However, I did manage to at least overcome this problem for now to try and reach out for XP my character has.
    This would be less of a problem if the community was more willing to be accepting of people having never run the quest, or letting a leader pick the quest and difficulty instead of hijacking a quest and changing the difficulty and what not. It's hard to be a leader when you've never done something and everyone's breathing down your neck to do it. Or even worse, when you can't find a healer, you get yelled at for not stating it's a BYOH quest when that's not at all what you intended it to be...

  15. #35
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    Well what I notice a lot about the player base is that they want to zerg a quest and finish it as quickly as possible to move on to the next quest. And they want to do it so they maintain and benefit from their streak. However, they tend to miss things like Conquest, Ransack, Ingenious Debilitation, and the like, just by blitzing stuff. So people have effectively traded one bonus for another, and unfortunately this new one is poisonous to the game.
    The real problem with Bravery Bonus are people that do not understand how it works, when it's useful, when you do not lose it.

    It has been repeated many times: bravery bonus is really good if you can complete the quest on elite almost as fast as you would complete it on normal. If it takes you 4x the time you should just run it on hard/normal multiple times for more xp. Sadly most people are too stupid to even understand what's better for them.

    Good groups do not miss things like conquest, ransack and ingenious cause while someone is doing the main quest, someone else is doing breakables, extra kills and traps. There are not many good Pugs, but there are still some out there.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  16. #36
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    Sadly most people are too stupid to even understand what's better for them.
    FWIW, some people may simply play the game differently. I play with several folks that love a challenge and would rather play a quest on elite and take our time than zerg through it 3 times on normal. Actually, I hate repeating quests over and over and the "farming" mentality. I understand it is efficient and a necessary evil sometimes, but it is not what I call fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    Good groups do not miss things like conquest, ransack and ingenious cause while someone is doing the main quest, someone else is doing breakables, extra kills and traps. There are not many good Pugs, but there are still some out there.
    Agree on this. It rarely adds any real time to get ransack, and even some optionals, yet some people are so focused on hurrying, they miss the point of efficiency. I've run with groups before that laughed at or even booted players that tried for ransack or wanted to grab an end chest of trash loot, yet wasted so much time outside the quest before going back in or going to the next one. It seems odd to laugh at someone for wasting 40 seconds to grab ransack and then stand outside the quest for 3 minutes linking all your gear so everyone can see it. And yet I've seen this more than once.

    It's like my dad told me years ago, "Hurrying causes mistakes. There's a big difference between going fast and hurrying."

  17. #37
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    FWIW, some people may simply play the game differently. I play with several folks that love a challenge and would rather play a quest on elite and take our time than zerg through it 3 times on normal. Actually, I hate repeating quests over and over and the "farming" mentality. I understand it is efficient and a necessary evil sometimes, but it is not what I call fun.
    Indeed. But usually these people aren't concerned too much with xp. They run quests that they find fun but are horrible xp/min anyway and they probably understand that what they are doing is not the most efficient way to level up. In some lives i do this as well: i run everything on elite once up to lvl 11 at least, even if i know that it would be way faster to just farm some of the nice xp/min quests.

    As long as you understand what you are doing, everything is fine, we all get fun in different ways

    There are many people though that want something but are clearly doing everything wrong to get it
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.
    yes there are a lot of private and static groups you and me aren`t aware of,yes it depends on server,and yes it depends on time zone of yours and the server`s,this is a very flexible leveling guide for level 18-20 i made for myself-start with vale as soon as i get level 18,only farm running with the devils and optional:farm rainbow,everything on elite first time,optional :elite no bb shroud with xp,then ransack the **** out of the sane asylum for about 150k xp at this point you`ll be at level 19,then divide your time from monastry and etk farm and mindsunder chain,at this point you will have a very small amount of xp left which i usually get by normal dreaming dark chain and mining nornal farm is boss hope it gives you some kind of big picture of the quests people run these days and as some people stated no-one bothers on amarath quests
    dragblood-khyber

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