Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,203

    Default Having issues with levels 17-20.

    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    533

    Default

    I think a lot of players hold lvl 18 and run the **** out of lvl 16, 17, 18 content. Then when they are forced to lvl to 19, they are 1xp away from 20. Anyway, that could contribute to difficulty getting groups in that range. Not sure. Those levels always seem the toughest for me, too. The content there is not much to chose from. It seems no one cares to run Amrath anymore, hard quests, little xp, and loot mostly obsolete. Cannith not so popular either.

    Shoot grouping in general is tough lately. That's the main reason I only now really play in my static group and then spend the rest of my time playing WOW. DDO is a hundred times better game than WOW, but if I can't get a group or am forced to solo quests that were designed to be played in a group, then I rather just play WOW. I keep my fingers crossed and pray that turbine does something to revive the lfm scene.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Most players hold at L18 until they are 20 because there are few grouping options. Your main options are the vale of twilight quests which usually fill pretty quickly in LFMs. After that if you still need xp it gets dicey. Reavers refuge is a huge source of XP but very few people know how to run monastery of the scorpion or enter the kobald anymore so you don't see many of those LFMs. There is good xp in the inspired quarter but again, very few LFMs because the mobs have so many HPs people don't like to run them unless their is a instakill wizard in the group. Amarath just never gets run anymore and the quests are long, difficult and give bad xp. You might try the cannith manufactory quests as they have some nice loot but they are a lot like the amaranth quests in that they are long, difficult and never have LFMs up. The Sane asylum is a great source of XP, if you know how do the puzzle.

    Challenges are a source of decent xp if you go thru them all first time. They lead to realliy nice L20 items and you can usually get groups for them with a little wait.

  4. #4
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    7,099

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.
    Random thoughts:


    I think there is a lot of fun content at levels 18-20, but you are right, it can be hard to get groups for them - especially Amrath. I think it might be because some of the Amrath quests can be so darn long compared to the xps you get from them, that folks generally don't want to run them much. Also those quests are still very difficult on elite, and I think I've been in more failed Amrath PUGs than any other content.


    Groups for the Mindsunder and Dreaming Dark chains usually fill pretty reliably though, and I find it is usually very easy to get folks to farm the last quest of each chain. Even if some players drop, more seem to replace them fairly quickly.


    I've had some luck window farming Monastary of the Scorpion, although I always seem to get a lot of players who aren't familiar with that content, so be prepared to wait forever for someone to find the location and then be prepared to carry the team. I don't know why the whole Stealer of Souls chain doesn't get run more often. Lack of good loot? I'm sure the random named gems & essences pre-flagging mechanic doesn't help. I have the same problem filling Cannith PUGs. Just not a lot of interest (except possibly slayers).


    You might get some Eveningstar groups for the heroic quests there (Druid's deep chain & the two free ones). I can usually find one or two other people to short man those. Same thing with the Lord of Eyes chain elite, I'll get a few other players, but generally not a full group. I've had some luck short manning House C challenges for mats and just consider the xps a bonus.


    I do find that Orchard slayer groups still fill and stay filled pretty well.
    Last edited by Postumus; 06-21-2013 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,673

    Default

    Most players hold 18 and just run stuff until they get to 20. Also if you have TRed the character more than once, it's usually best to not run the Vale quests until you are level 18, because the XP for those quests on Elite are the biggest punch to the giant XP block for levels 18 and 19.


    I must ask you one question, did you start TRing your characters before or after MOTU? I'll explain why I ask.

    Pre-MOTU, you could run with capped level 20s in many of the upper heroic quests with little or no penalty. Also the raid scene was much more robust, which contained the second best source of XP for capped (after the Vale quests). Also if you look the XP for most quests after Vale has some of the worst XP in the game, which helped extend the "end game" when you TR when the cap was level 20.

    Post-MOTU, the lousy XP for quests after Vale doesn't contain enough XP to interest a fresh level 20, since Epic quests give multiples more in XP so the journey to level 25 (and soon 28) will be faster to ignore all heroic quests. So level 20 and 21 players don't group with heroic players anymore since they can get into Epics, but heroic players can't enter any epics. Also, at level raids have taken a beating where they are rarely ran since MOTU. So leveling up a TR2 post-MOTU, a patch of players (level 20) no longer want to run in lousy XP quests when they have access to better XP and a patch of good XP (raids) has dried up since they are rarely ran at level, while at the same time the Devs have continued to keep the horrible XP in packs such as Amarth and House C at an anemic amount forcing TRs to stay in the heroic levels are an extended time.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    GTA, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    for me I solo everything 99% of the time and I am also as a new TR just hitting 17. However I've been wanting to try some grouping and never PUG'ed (haven't really had the interest until recently).

    For me the turn offs of PUG'ing are:

    - waiting around for a group to fill.
    - put the coimpletiong at risk in the hands of a bunch of straagers and wasting whatever amount of presious game time I have, if I fail and solo it's on my own head,.
    - I don't normaly play at a difficulty higher than Normal at level in this range. Most LFMs are elite BB runs or zerg fests, know it, BYOH, etc ... majority of the time I don't qualify and would just seem like an unpleasant situation.

    As for my playstyle

    - limited time, and log in and out frequently for issues outisde of the game, not unsual to bail on a quest for me...since I am not reliable I don't see the point in grouping.
    - run with a FvS hire (larafay from 15 - 18) always as well as scrolls, wands, potions etc ... to be self suiffient if my healer runs out of mana
    - I am curently running a Rogue 2 / Sorc 14 (earth savant) 2nd lifer (this is my first TR'ed oon)
    - Play on Sarlona and part of a large guild (I do the occasional guild run)

    I would be all in for a regular 2 man team for TR'ing or regular questing to level up, but I have yet to find anyone that I could run with.

  7. #7
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    831

    Default

    Try to streak the inspired quarter. good xp there and most quests are listed as medium in length.

    also the house C challenges offer decent first time experience
    Last edited by ThePrincipal; 06-21-2013 at 12:40 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    I think a lot of players hold lvl 18 and run the **** out of lvl 16, 17, 18 content. Then when they are forced to lvl to 19, they are 1xp away from 20.
    So how do you know when you are forced to take level 19, does the game tell you that you won't earn anymore XP until you level up or something?

    Stoner81.

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    So how do you know when you are forced to take level 19, does the game tell you that you won't earn anymore XP until you level up or something?

    Stoner81.
    Yes, it will warn you that you will receive no more XP.

    But if you pay attention to the XP bar on the bottom, if you see all the bubbles are full and you are filling in a rank that ends with a 0 or 5, you need to level up before that bar gets full.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In a box.
    Posts
    2,312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.
    It's a lot of things. Epic-level breaks, where you don't have the option of running level 21 quests, and there's no reason for epic toons to be farming anything under 20 even if they do run it.

    After Vale, here's what you're looking at:

    Shroud, which gets posted at-level about once every three months on normal which breaks streaks. Otherwise it's generally been on hard, 18-25 and no XP

    The second madness chain. Acute Delirium is ridiculous on elite and not very PUG-friendly. Sane Asylum is good for farming a bit, but the last two are so long as not to be worth it. Plus it's a chain, so when it does get run, most people will run the whole thing once and not touch it again.

    Amrath. Again, short on XP for the time and effort. The biggest thing (like other 19 quests) is that unless you desperately need the XP, there's no good reason not to wait until 20 or 21 to run it, when you've got your EDs. And just like Shroud, no one's running at-level TODs, so there's no reason to flag that early.

    IQ/Dreaming Dark, which runs hot and cold. The XP isn't great past the first run, although a couple are short enough to farm. DD is rarely run beyond casual for stone upgrades.

    Same with the eveningstar heroic stuff; it might be worth the first run XP, but it's really not worth the hassle of running the heroic elites if you don't have to.

    So yeah, between the shift in difficulty (especially mob saves v. DCs), the lack of broad knowledge, the low XP value, and the length of quest time, it's an LFM wasteland. This was a big complaint a year ago, and like many other things it was never much addressed by Turbine; I wouldn't expect much in the future either.

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePrincipal View Post
    Try to streak the inspired quarter. good xp there and most quests are listed as medium in length.
    Oh boy, IQ and Dreaming Dark elite is a cakewalk on multi life DC caster but suicide on "average" melee.

    OP, most people farm the hell out of GH, Necro 4, Litany, Von 3, Rwtd, OOB/Maraud, Wiz king, and start banking around Shadowcrypt/Delera 4/Xorian.
    After elite Vale, you are kinda out of luck, except Sane Asylum, ETK and Monastery farms and maybe one fast normal round of IQ and DD.
    Unless you use xp pots like candy or want to do stupid stuff like slayers/explorers for 300 billion hours.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    This was a big complaint a year ago, and like many other things it was never much addressed by Turbine; I wouldn't expect much in the future either.
    It does appear that Turbine might be addressing it, as seen here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...es#post5025493

    I like many of the ideas that will be appearing. But in true Turbine fashion, instead of doing the simple and easy solution of increasing the poor XP in the upper heroics, the brains behind the scenes decided to do several complicated things instead. Again, I like many of the ideas that they will be doing, I just don't know why they won't raise the XP in those quests because that will help alleviate alot of problems players have in the upper heroic level range.

  13. #13
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sk3l3t0r View Post
    - waiting around for a group to fill.
    I never wait for a group to fill if I am confident that I can handle the difficulty of a quest. Put up an LFM with the message "Starting in five minutes". Then once that period has passed, regardless of whether you filled or not, start the quest.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
    The Band of Gypsys

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.
    Those quests are mostly garbage, give antiquated loot, and are not worth the effort vs XP.

    I never touched quests in Cannith on my track to 25, I only touched the outdoor Devil Battlefield zone as well. Bank a level, and repeat the vale quests, easier because you're over level, more XP, and not too easy to fail.

    So, I went 20 with redoing vale, outdoor zones, and dreaming dark 'easier' quests, and level 17ish content.

    I've been 25th for a week now, and why would I EVER visit those quests at all? I don't raid... Never have. Even so, items are not built like wow, where the gear progression is straight forward, and you must get something to get something else. Skip all the "bad" content.

    I also skipped EVERY SINGLE epic quest on my way to 25 so I could get 1st time bonuses while going to 25. So, now I'm 25 without any repeat counts, so I can do any and all epic content at full XP, in any order, as I please for giggles. (STUPID that you have to plan to do that.)

    Not that I didn't have the cannith loot... This was my 4th trip to 20 on this guy, so I've done it... have the loot. Not going to wait around to group.

  15. #15

    Default

    I guess that the original DDO developers intentions for DDO PCs have several phases:

    1. Tutorial Phase: Korthos Island.
    2. Learning to Group Phase: Harbor, Marketplace and House quests.
    3. Character Development Phase: Necropolis, Threnal.
    4. Character Defenses, preparedness, buffs check phase: Sands of Mechnectarun, Giant Hold
    5. Grown up Phase: Vale of Twilight, Necropolis
    6. Caster Examination/Pain Challenge Phase: Amrath, Secrets of the Artificers
    7. Melee/Ranged Examination/Pain Challenge Phase: Inspired Quarter, Dreaming Dark
    8. Epic Phase: Menace of the Underdark, Return of Giant Hold


    So, levels 17 to 20 seems like the grown up and challenge phases where quests XP are minimal and amount of quests are fewer.

    Usually a lot of power gamers aka Savants* at the upper heroic ranges solo because they can blast through levels 17 to 20 fairly easily via Litany of the Dead and Reavers Refuge + IQ1 + 2 with a pot or 2.

    Amrath/House Cannith they can be fun; but can also be extremely frustrating and painful if the character/party is not up to par.

    *P.S. A lot of people think that casters are overpowered were probably encountering one of these sorcerers or instant killing casters at this stage. Actually, at epic levels, casters are still okay, but not that great anymore since DCs are too high, monsters are easier to kill because there are no more phasing in and out, incorporeal, harder to hit, etc. In fact, they are harder for casters to hit (increased spell resistance), harder to land spells (increased saves). No wonder a lot of the casters go boom based instead of DC based. A lot of melee based abilities like Master's Blitz, Unbridled Fury are very good. Everything Is Nothing was great before too.
    Last edited by Tyrande; 06-21-2013 at 01:51 PM.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  16. #16
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    I think a lot of players hold lvl 18 and run the **** out of lvl 16, 17, 18 content. Then when they are forced to lvl to 19, they are 1xp away from 20.
    Nope.
    When level 18, you can go all the way to 1XP from level 21. You don't get blocked at all at 20.
    And when I TR, I try to cap in lvl 17 quests. Lvl 18-19 quests are just that much worse than reaver's refuge/sane asylum.
    Owy Evoker FvS / Praledric Completionist Qstaff Rogue/Monk/Druid / Laraeph DC Wizard / Laraelph AA Monk/Ranger/Pally / Gaenry Shiradi Sorc/FvS/Wiz / Reasis SWF Pally & numerous others
    The Leveller for DDO!

  17. #17
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    402

    Default

    20 was cap for quite a while...

    To prevent a sprint to cap, they really toned down the XP in the 18-19 range, and the XP requirements are much much higher on TRs.

    So it felt like you were "working" to cap.

    In edition, they expected people to run it, because at the point of release, generally each release had the best loot in the game for it's release date. Some KEY item was at the top of the game for that level at that point.

    With so much more headroom in gear... that gear isn't going to be worn now... for long at all. so it's not worth the effort to get, if you don't have it already.

    If you want the item... you're going to cap to 25, fill out your ED, and farm it before your next TR. Why fight the DQ at level? You must be crazy. Just demolish her 20 times at cap, get your Torc, then TR. Don't do it at level, that is hard, fails often, and is hard. Just do it at cap!!!

    Loot is gained LONG after you need it for the next life... Only CAP loot is gained at level. I will wait till cap is 28 to farm 25 gear, 36 to farm 28 gear and so on. So it's always EASY to get, and sure I don't have the best gear, but so what, you only need the BEST gear to do the hardest content. I'll do it all... 5 levels high, and get the loot.

    Now people game the system. Any time you have choices to grind on a difficult quest, may fail, and get "NOTHING" for your efforts, or you have a fairly straight forward quest, you know you can do, and do fairly quickly... What do you think will happen?

    The rewards for the difficult quests do not outweigh the difficulty of accomplishment nor the very real possibility you will fail the quest.

    They don't offer loot that matters beyond level 18. They don't offer XP that accounts for their difficulty.

    Now that they have basically made them irrelevant for anyone seeking epic levels, they are a ghost town. The quests that get run, and run to death are good XP, Once you've TRd 2 times, no loot matters but what you've already got. You're just filling bubbles. You're not after that ring that is level 18. You've got a level 25 one in the bank already. You just have to "get through" the bar, to put on what you already have.

    The lesser ring you have is good enough... Because you're only going to be this level for 2 days. Why put in the effort to get that ring, when you know you can out level it before next saturday.
    Last edited by 350zguy; 06-21-2013 at 01:54 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    GTA, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I never wait for a group to fill if I am confident that I can handle the difficulty of a quest. Put up an LFM with the message "Starting in five minutes". Then once that period has passed, regardless of whether you filled or not, start the quest.
    hence the reason why I solo and don't bother with PUGs

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    Nope.
    When level 18, you can go all the way to 1XP from level 21. You don't get blocked at all at 20.
    And when I TR, I try to cap in lvl 17 quests. Lvl 18-19 quests are just that much worse than reaver's refuge/sane asylum.
    True, but the only thing to be aware of you only year Epic XP, not the more important Epic Destiny XP.

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Ever since I TR'ed for the first time on my character, I have been having HUGE issues finding other players to perform 17-20 content, especially for stuff that's level 18 or 19. I'm a little confused; what issues face characters at this level which discourage them from grouping? Do they make their own private runs at these levels, solo a ton, or do they do something else that I am not aware of? I am very confused at the lack of group participation at these levels; it could be server based or possibly part of a larger issue I am not aware of.
    I TR'ed Yalina recently, and leveled her back to 25 quickly.

    - at lvl 17: Litany with XP pot, i did the bosses on the 4 last runs (beholder boss for casual), I farmed it solo, it doesnt matter you do it solo or group. I did Acid Wit (had to solo, noone joined), and Delirium (quickly filled) with BB and only once. Did some Ghost of Perdition farm (I capped on lvl 16 before I could do it), and explored GH and Orchard. I capped from these.
    - at lvl 18: I moved to Vale. I forgot the u18 quests, so I went back and did them on elite (no bravery). I did LoD and Servants, but skipped Spinners (it is bugged), also did Rift. I rarely needed to wait for fill these quests. I easily got enough XP to get to lvl 20 (I banked a level, as every TR does).
    - at lvl 20: I went back and did Enter the Kobold on elite (success on solo, but I had Gradnmaster destiny lvl 5 active), I failed on soloing elite Prey, dragon died before I could kill all mobs there. Did IQ 1-2, never had any problem to fill those ones, they are still popular. I started to do the easy epics - house P and house D, and before I could blink, I was lvl 21.
    - at lvl 21: I did Amrath for BB, hard to fill those quests, ended up shortman on all, but man, duoing elite Weapon Shipment, 3 men elite Invasion (watching how a really good wizzy kicks the boss' a*** there) was a BLAST. Wrath is still a blah quests, and Genesis Point is the easiest, where the rogue pulled a random level to see what boss we get (portals). With epic destinies, Amrath is not that tough anymore.
    - at lvl 22: I started to flag in Eveningstar, and do all the Eberron and other epic quests only once (EH). I easily managed to get to lvl 25. I have no repeat penalty on most of epic quests, neither on Eveningstar ones.

    I filled a lot of quests very easily, but its maybe misleading, 'cause Yalina is an fvs now.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload