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  1. #1
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Default Artificer Dilettante: What does it do?

    So I have been reading over the Artificer Dilettante feat and enhancements and I have to ask: what do they do? The ddowiki is not very forthcoming with details. I will give some examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artificer Dilettante feat
    You have watched the artificers of House Cannith work their trade. You gain proficiency with all crossbows, and Artificer Knowledge: Scrolls (You gain a +2 bonus to Use Magical Device checks when using scrolls, and their Caster Level is increased by one - this Caster Level increase is capped by your Intelligence modifier.) You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you are a level one artificers. For item use purposes you count as a level one artificer in addition to any other classes you possess (though this does not grant the ability to use Rune Arms).
    1)Proficiency with all crossbows: does that mean repeaters as well?

    2) Caster level with scrolls is increased by one by it is capped by Intelligence modifier. Does this mean that a scroll is limited to a maximum of +1 caster level? If I have an Intelligence of 14, it will still only be +1?
    Quote Originally Posted by Improved Artificer Dilettante I
    Your knowledge of magical items has improved, and now extends to potions. Also increases your caster level in your dilettante class by 1, so you are now treated as a second level Artificer instead of first level for scrolls and purposes.
    1)What does it mean that "knowledge of magical items has improved?" Does that mean the level bonus for using scrolls and potions is now increased to +2 (assuming Intelligence is at least 14)?

    2) What does the "and purposes" refer to in the phrase "for scrolls and purposes" mean? What other purposes? Are there artificer restricted items or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Improved Artificer Dilettante II
    Your knowledge of magical items has improved, and now extends to wands. Also increases your caster level in your dilettante class by 1, so you are now treated as a third level Artificer instead of first level for scrolls and purposes.
    Same question as before basically. Does this mean the level for using scrolls, potions and wands is now increased by +3 (assuming Intelligence of at least 16)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Improved Artificer Dilettante III
    Your knowledge of magical items has improved, and now extends to magical arms and armor. Also increases your caster level in your dilettante class by 1, so you are now treated as a fourth level Artificer instead of first level for scrolls and purposes.
    1) This is a confusing one. What does it mean to have the knowledge of magical arms and armor improved? Does this only apply to magical arms and armor that have spell clickies? For example, if I have armor with a haste clickie with caster level 5, does this increase the caster level of the clickie?

    2) Again, does this increase the caster level bonus for scrolls, potions, wands, and magical arms and armor by +4 (assuming a minimum Intelligence of 18)?

    That's about it. Thanks for the help, fellow half-elf players!

  2. #2

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    You get proficiency with all crossbows including both types of repeaters and heavy crossbows. When they say all they mean all.

    You get a +2 UMD bonus when activating scrolls.

    Caster level on scrolls refers to the fact that you can cast scrolls as a level one artificer. That means you can automatically use any level 1 artificer scrolls. To use a level 2 artificer scroll you need a caster level check, same for higher level scrolls. The higher level the scroll compared to your caster level, the less chance you have to use it. Dilitantes have enhancements that add to the caster level, but the bonus can't go higher than your Int bonus.

    For wands its a bit different. Wands can be used without fail by anyone who can normally cast the spell on the wand. So as a level 1 artificer for wand casting, you can use any wand containing an artificer spell.

    Also if you find an item (other than rune arms) that can only be used by an artificer, you can use the item since you are considered an artificer even though you don't have class levels in it.

    That's about all it does.

    All the caster class dilettante feats give you the scroll and wand use and the class item use (though there are very few class restricted items in game).
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    I am not trying to be snarky, so I apologize if I sound that way; I am just trying to understand. So what you are saying is that the feat does not do what it says.

    You gain proficiency with all crossbows, and Artificer Knowledge: Scrolls (You gain a +2 bonus to Use Magical Device checks when using scrolls, and their Caster Level is increased by one - this Caster Level increase is capped by your Intelligence modifier.)
    (Emphasis is my own.)

    Artificer Knowledge is a specific ability that grants a +2 UMD and increases the caster level of the item being used. The additional enhancements seem to state that you get Artificer Knowledge for Potions (I), Wands (II), then Magical Arms and Armor (III). So if I understand you correctly, you are saying the enhancements only let you use artificer scrolls and wands with a higher caster level. That just doesn't sound correct to me. Especially since the part about the effective caster level increase is a separate "Also..." sentence.

    I believe what the enhancements do is grant you the Artificer Knowledge ability for a new type of item with each enhancement upgrade, i.e. a +2 to UMD checks and at least a +1 increase to caster level when using such items. That seems mostly clear although the enhancement descriptions don't use the game term "Artificer Knowledge" like the feat does, only the general term "knowledge." Still, that seems to imply that you are indeed supposed to gain Artificer Knowledge for Potions, Wands, and Magical Arms and Armor when you take the enhancements.

    The part that seems most unclear to me is how high the caster level bonus goes. If it stays at +1 for all item types, the +1 caster level for scrolls (and potions, wands, and magical arms and armor) being limited by Intelligence seems redundant, since Artificer Dilettante has Int 13 as a prerequisite.

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    I am not trying to be snarky, so I apologize if I sound that way; I am just trying to understand. So what you are saying is that the feat does not do what it says.

    (Emphasis is my own.)

    Artificer Knowledge is a specific ability that grants a +2 UMD and increases the caster level of the item being used. The additional enhancements seem to state that you get Artificer Knowledge for Potions (I), Wands (II), then Magical Arms and Armor (III). So if I understand you correctly, you are saying the enhancements only let you use artificer scrolls and wands with a higher caster level. That just doesn't sound correct to me. Especially since the part about the effective caster level increase is a separate "Also..." sentence.

    I believe what the enhancements do is grant you the Artificer Knowledge ability for a new type of item with each enhancement upgrade, i.e. a +2 to UMD checks and at least a +1 increase to caster level when using such items. That seems mostly clear although the enhancement descriptions don't use the game term "Artificer Knowledge" like the feat does, only the general term "knowledge." Still, that seems to imply that you are indeed supposed to gain Artificer Knowledge for Potions, Wands, and Magical Arms and Armor when you take the enhancements.

    The part that seems most unclear to me is how high the caster level bonus goes. If it stays at +1 for all item types, the +1 caster level for scrolls (and potions, wands, and magical arms and armor) being limited by Intelligence seems redundant, since Artificer Dilettante has Int 13 as a prerequisite.
    it's a copy and paste job of the real arti bonus feat that does the same you only get +1 on the dill, real arti's start there and get additional feats that boost the + on the caster levels. Over all though it's just a poor copy paste job that's creating your confusion.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    So then yes, the feat and the enhancements do not do what they say. I think I will test it out for myself. I am going to do a wizard life and was thinking of picking this up for better UMD and better scroll use. I will investigate and see what happens.

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    I'm trying it out now and finding it lacking in some things.

    1) while Ranger dilly gets conjure arrows, Artificer dilly does not get conjure bolts.

    2) If you use the Conjure Bolts scroll, even though successful no bolts appear in your inventory.

    So, there's no way to conjure bolts and are stuck using up many many inventory slots with bolts in stacks of 100, which on a repeater build is just not workable. Even if you have a large thin quiver (house D favor) you can only stack 1000 in it.

    Also, there is either a bug, or an unknown prerequisite, for the tier 3 Improved Dilletante (Dilletant Ability Score)... even with 10AP spent in the tree, it is unavailable, effectively locking out the two enhancements on the 4th tier. (For me anyway.) The only prerequisite it mentions is 10AP in tree.

    Edit: I went back and reset my tree and played "what-if"... my toon is currently level 3 bard, and putting a point either of the bard trees disabled the Artificer Dilletante Ability Score enhancement.
    Last edited by Pantronic; 08-26-2013 at 01:17 PM.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantronic View Post
    I'm trying it out now and finding it lacking in some things.

    1) while Ranger dilly gets conjure arrows, Artificer dilly does not get conjure bolts.

    2) If you use the Conjure Bolts scroll, even though successful no bolts appear in your inventory.

    So, there's no way to conjure bolts and are stuck using up many many inventory slots with bolts in stacks of 100, which on a repeater build is just not workable. Even if you have a large thin quiver (house D favor) you can only stack 1000 in it.

    Also, there is either a bug, or an unknown prerequisite, for the tier 3 Improved Dilletante (Dilletant Ability Score)... even with 10AP spent in the tree, it is unavailable, effectively locking out the two enhancements on the 4th tier. (For me anyway.) The only prerequisite it mentions is 10AP in tree.
    Well Artificer and Ranger are two totally different horses. But regarding the conjure arrows, you actually can cast with the dilli the Conjure Bolts spell from scroll, which as far as I know is available form the vendor in house Cannith. Those even stack up to 1000, while if I am not mistaken the Ranger dilettante conjure arrows, only provide stacks of 100.

    That the bolts not appear in the inventory may however be a bug and should then be reported. On the other side you get +3 universal Spellpower for the Artificer, instead of the conjure arrows if you chose so. If you really want to conjure anything you would be able to use 4AP to unlock the Arcane Archer tree, where you have at tier I the conjure arrow.

    I just created a new character on the Ship, and with 16AP spent I could take for another 2AP the 4th level.

    Last edited by SisAmethyst; 08-26-2013 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Add screenshot
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Well Artificer and Ranger are two totally different horses. But regarding the conjure arrows, you actually can cast with the dilli the Conjure Bolts spell from scroll, which as far as I know is available form the vendor in house Cannith. Those even stack up to 1000, while if I am not mistaken the Ranger dilettante conjure arrows, only provide stacks of 100.
    The difference is that the Ranger's 100 arrows are 100% returning. However the conjured bolts, while given in stacks of 1000, are not at all returning.

    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    That the bolts not appear in the inventory may however be a bug and should then be reported.
    It is, in fact, already listed on the U19 "known issues" list.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    The difference is that the Ranger's 100 arrows are 100% returning. However the conjured bolts, while given in stacks of 1000, are not at all returning.


    It is, in fact, already listed on the U19 "known issues" list.
    Then again the stack of 1000 bolts of an Artificer scale with level. Never have tried to cast them from scroll, but they might also scale and be +2, +3, +4 etc. instead of blank +1, which has the benefit you can use a weapon which is only +1. Additionally even are we sure that they are 100% returning and not like 50%, and if so why it not just cast a single one if it ever return anyway? Anyway, that derail the OP a little bit.

    To get back on topic: I actually like the option of the Artificer dilettante, especially as the boost in caster level also mean that for example a wand which may give you maybe an 5 min buff, suddenly last 6 min. That also mean that most likely also a haste potion last longer then usual
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

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