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  1. #121
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    This sounds promising. Getting my heroic completions to not permanently count against my epic repetitions will be nice. Looking forward to seeing more about this.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  2. #122
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.
    If you get this right then I think this could be really really good, I never seem to get time to run various content in the lower levels because I level up so fast (I never run 3BC stuff for example) anything where you have more choices to earn the XP instead of a very limited level range has to be a good thing surely?

    Stoner81.

  3. #123
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    Last edited by SirShen; 07-13-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  4. #124
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    Have they lowered legend life xp? If not that reallllllly reallllly hurts bad.

  5. #125
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    SAGAS!
    -------

    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!......

    Give NOTHING LESS than a GUARANTEED LEGENDARY VICTORY to People completing these!

    This is the PERFECT PLACE to put in GUARANTEED High Guild Renown rewards!

  6. #126
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    Aye.

    Come on Devs - LOOK AT YOUR GAME!

    There's MANY MANY Quests that we're basically forced into Repeating - Invaders, ALL of Orchard {the biggest one being LITANY - Minimum 4 Repeats!} and Many others!

    If you're going to do this then PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S GOOD!....
    Make these FORCED REPEAT Quests NOT a part of it!


    Honestly it's a GREAT idea all round and will INSTANTLY put a Stop to the Ubiquitous Shadow Crypt/VoN 3/Wiz King Farms!
    No Longer seeing Kobold's New Ringleader EHHHHHHHHN LFMs is going to be GREAT too!

    BUT

    FORCED REPEAT QUESTS ABSOLUTELY MUST BE IMMUNE!
    I DON'T want to be Earning PITIFUL SAVE COYLE XP in my FOURTH run of LITANY {ESPECIALLY if I'm doing the Ghost Beholder LAST!}.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Aye.

    Come on Devs - LOOK AT YOUR GAME!

    There's MANY MANY Quests that we're basically forced into Repeating - Invaders, ALL of Orchard {the biggest one being LITANY - Minimum 4 Repeats!} and Many others!

    If you're going to do this then PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S GOOD!....
    Make these FORCED REPEAT Quests NOT a part of it!


    Honestly it's a GREAT idea all round and will INSTANTLY put a Stop to the Ubiquitous Shadow Crypt/VoN 3/Wiz King Farms!
    No Longer seeing Kobold's New Ringleader EHHHHHHHHN LFMs is going to be GREAT too!

    BUT

    FORCED REPEAT QUESTS ABSOLUTELY MUST BE IMMUNE!
    I DON'T want to be Earning PITIFUL SAVE COYLE XP in my FOURTH run of LITANY {ESPECIALLY if I'm doing the Ghost Beholder LAST!}.
    This is exactly why said I was worried about the Devs playing around with the XP, unless it was to increase the horrible XP in the upper heroics. I voiced my fear that doing any XP adjustment would create a new trouble XP spot and the most likely area would be levels 12 to 14, since that's the area with the least amount of quests after Shadowfell gets released. Naysayers claimed that I was raising red flags for no reason since all the "fun" quests and great XP quests were in that area so players could just run those quests multiple times. Well, I'm pretty sure that we've now got a new trouble XP spot, right where I predicted.

    Instead of just adding a ransack XP timer like players asked, the Devs have decided to add a 30% draconian XP hit on repeating quests. Why is wrong with the current XP penalty staying? If there's really something wrong, which I don't, just get rid of the "first three completions have no adjustment to xp" mechanic. But being hit with a 30% XP hit just for repeating a quest is probably one of the dumbest things added to the game lately (and there's alot of competition lately for asinine projects and ideas for the past few weeks, much less past year).

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    As is being noted, this is a terrible change. If you want to encourage people to run different quests, then do so through changing the first time rewards and adding the daily bonuses. No need to nuke repetitions. Heck, a lot of the people still playing probably like repeating quests, since it has been such a feature for so long.

  9. #129
    Community Member Kadderly's Avatar
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    What would be more reasonable would be a stacking 10% penalty per run that is reduced by 10% per day +1-3% reduction per daily bonus earned. This would be meaningful motivation to encourage more varied quest choices without being completely crippling. Even if you ransacked a quest completely in a day of farming it would be available in a week (approximate) same as ransacking chests. If you are leveling you could run the quest once-twice a day till you outlevel it which is fair about deterring grinding via just a handful of quests without harming the leveling progress of multi-TR folks or simply people who play 12+ hours a day and level fast.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    Hm, I think the idea is sound, but it will need a bit of work on the details. If you do the quest 4 times in a row (EHHN?) you would end up getting very little XP for the last 2 runs, and if you just wait around it would take an awful lot of time to do the quest again.
    On the other hand, if you play a string of say 4 quests, then after the first completion of all 4 of them, you would already be back up 3 % from playing other quests. So if you go and play 20 other quests, then you can get it up to a reasonable level for your second time through. So it leads away from mind numbing grinding of a single (or a couple of) quest(s), which is very much what is needed.

    I can imagine that with a bit of fine-tuning the % of decay drop-off for playing other quests in between as well as setting the penalty to say 10%-20%-30% or something this could work fine.
    It should be combined with the evening out the XP-curve and revamping XP/quest for some of the levels with little quests though.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    Hm, I think the idea is sound, but it will need a bit of work on the details. If you do the quest 4 times in a row (EHHN?) you would end up getting very little XP for the last 2 runs, and if you just wait around it would take an awful lot of time to do the quest again.
    On the other hand, if you play a string of say 4 quests, then after the first completion of all 4 of them, you would already be back up 3 % from playing other quests. So if you go and play 20 other quests, then you can get it up to a reasonable level for your second time through. So it leads away from mind numbing grinding of a single (or a couple of) quest(s), which is very much what is needed.

    I can imagine that with a bit of fine-tuning the % of decay drop-off for playing other quests in between as well as setting the penalty to say 10%-20%-30% or something this could work fine.
    It should be combined with the evening out the XP-curve and revamping XP/quest for some of the levels with little quests though.
    Levels 11 to 14 only have 9 to 11 quests each. Level 16 now has an improved 14 quests, just like level 17. And to round out the Heroic upper levels, level 18 has has 8 quests with very poor XP and level 19 has 16 quests with very poor XP also.

    With that in mind, where do you suggest players should seek these 20 quests without getting hit with the repeat penalty or preventing XP from being gained in the next level? Also keep in mind that Epic quests are off-limits for anyone under level 20.
    Last edited by oradafu; 07-14-2013 at 04:15 AM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    I like the idea of the xp bonus for doing the quest first that day but i dont like this



    what about quests like Invaders were you need todo the quest alot more then 3 times. The xp hit will be alot. So now if i did that quest 6 times i would have not play it for a 18 days. DO you want players to stop playing? This will hit casual players with not many quest packs hard.
    Yikes, seems very harsh. Will at least need a few penalty free runs, and lower stacking penalty and higher reduction rate. Atm it seems insanely harsh, especially to new/ftp players that we want to keep around in hopes of them going VIP/premium some time.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  13. #133
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    Whaa, where did that come from? That's horrible!!! Do you know what that will do to casual players that don't own all the packs? Well, I guess they probably do, maybe that's the point...

    Here's a suggestion. If you want people to stop running certain content many times, why don't you IMPROVE the content of the crappy quests that nobody ever runs, instead of destroying the XP of the fun/good quests that are frequently run? Instead of bringing everything down a level, why not make all quests something people want to run? Doesn't that make sense? Won't that encourage people to run more quests, buy more packs, oh and, I don't know, maybe make your game overall more enjoyable?

    Additionally, as others have said, I don't think you even considered the fact that there are many quests in this game that MUST be run more than once, for flagging or item gathering purposes. Nobody in the development team thought about it, but when you ask the people who play the game, they'll instantly realize this. Or what about the situation where you're online leveling up short man with a few guildies. Your friend logs on and see you're running a certain quests. They ask to join, but then need to do elite first, for bravery streak. Usually, if you're a cool person, you say sure man, we'll help you out, and you run the quest again. No problem. Now you want people to take a massive XP penalty for helping out a friend. Way to promote friendly grouping there.
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  14. #134
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chette View Post
    Whaa, where did that come from? That's horrible!!! Do you know what that will do to casual players that don't own all the packs? Well, I guess they probably do, maybe that's the point...

    Here's a suggestion. If you want people to stop running certain content many times, why don't you IMPROVE the content of the crappy quests that nobody ever runs, instead of destroying the XP of the fun/good quests that are frequently run? Instead of bringing everything down a level, why not make all quests something people want to run? Doesn't that make sense? Won't that encourage people to run more quests, buy more packs, oh and, I don't know, maybe make your game overall more enjoyable?

    Additionally, as others have said, I don't think you even considered the fact that there are many quests in this game that MUST be run more than once, for flagging or item gathering purposes. Nobody in the development team thought about it, but when you ask the people who play the game, they'll instantly realize this. Or what about the situation where you're online leveling up short man with a few guildies. Your friend logs on and see you're running a certain quests. They ask to join, but then need to do elite first, for bravery streak. Usually, if you're a cool person, you say sure man, we'll help you out, and you run the quest again. No problem. Now you want people to take a massive XP penalty for helping out a friend. Way to promote friendly grouping there.
    This is what will happen you run the quest on elite, hard, normal and casual and then you get hit with -30% so no way are you going to see an lfm and think ill run that again. It will stop players grouping up even more. Also the Daily Playthough Bonus +20% is bugged you go into a quest and it there when you look again ITS gone.

  15. #135
    2015 DDO Players Council MangLord's Avatar
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    I think the changes sound great.

    My only concern is that instead of getting the level 19 blues as a multiple TR, that one big plateau will be replaced with several smaller ones. Not really a huge deal, but at least at high level you have a lot of powers to work with, whereas a low level wizard or favored soul (for example) is going to be stuck grinding XP without a wealth of tools at their disposal. Personally, I would not want to spend any more time as a gimpy zombie pale master than I had to.

    I do think the ransack penalty is a little excessive. I run with a lot of people in several guilds regularly, and wind up helping people flag for Tor, Litany, Shroud, etc several times each life. Not that I won't do it with a massive xp hit, because my friends are the primary reason I play, but I don't feel like I should be penalized for being a team player in an MMO. If the XP takes a hit, then please increase the droprate of named items in a similarly stacking fashion. I would gladly run LoD chain 10x for no xp if I were guaranteed to finally get my envenomed blade shard that I've been farming for the past year. I'm getting no xp on 40+ runs anyways with nothing to show for it.
    Last edited by MangLord; 07-14-2013 at 01:49 PM.

  16. #136
    Community Member Mephisto-Helix's Avatar
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    I agree, those penalties are absurd. Whomever thought this up really has no grasp on tr'ing for completionist nor how badly this will affect grouping. It's silly and vindictive and has no place in our game. Scrap it or stand to lose many many more players.

  17. #137
    Community Member GrrArgh's Avatar
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    I just logged in to Lama, just to mouse around a bit and the new xp mechanics were the first thing to 'interest' me. I must admit to a feeling of dread when reading the above pictured blurbit, but, in the spirit of true munchkins everywhere I put that aside and did a little playtesting. You've got to understand a thing well in order to leverage it to your maximum advantage. That being said.....

    I went out and ran The Miller's Debt.

    Once with bonuses (tome, VIP perk, first time completion and all that).
    A second time with no penalty. (As I understand it, you get one free run outside the first time penalty immunity that begins the ransack incrementation.)
    A third run with -30%.
    A fourth run with -60%.
    A fifth run with -90%.

    Ok. That seems simple enough. Let's go run Arachnophobia.

    One run. Ah, look at that. Daily Bonus. Cool. I should be able to go back to The Miller's Debt and see that make a difference.

    Anticipated xp take: -90% (capped ransack penalty) +1% (for running that Arachnophobia pass) = -89%

    A sixth run on The Miller's Debt. Actual xp take: NO XP AWARDED.

    Putting aside everything else. The system as described is broken.

    Moving on.

    Hypotheticals now.

    #1

    If I ransack a quest to 90% and am content to run it at this level, (honestly? I run -99% quests all the time. Kill/Breakable/trap/door xp bonuses aren't penalized and I can make quite a killing on those alone), that means a couple things. One. I can only run quests I am one level above or less. Two levels above and I get a -10% penalty that means NO XP AWARDED. That's limiting. I don't like that.

    #2

    If I plan on ransacking a quest to 90% and then gaining some (immediate, that day) xp back....well, let's see. I've already admitted to running at -99% xp on LIVE. But that's on quests so far below me that I'm just wanting a braindead solo run or 20 after I get off work. Let's be real conservative and say I want to maintain about -80%. That's 10 fresh quests. I'm not seeing any level restrictions here. So....I start my DDO-day by running 10 Korthos-Harbor quests on my level 15 character and then go to ransack the quests I want for a daily 10% reduction to the penalties I'm accruing? There's 26 Level 1&2 quests.....it seems (at least on a daily basis of the thing) that I'm now adding a huge grind to my shorter grind to pull less xp now so I can make more xp over the coming week? That's more time spent at a lower level than I'm used to/want. Maybe that's the goal? *shrug* I'm not making judgements at this point. I'm just looking at how this might affect me. Love it or hate it....how do I leverage it?

    #3

    If I plan on ransacking a quest to 90% and then not running it again....+5% a day. I mean I suppose I could make a few runs on one character and then shelve him for 180 days while I run other characters (I have 30+, sue me, I like building characters.) but I DO like to play my favorites more than one day every 6 months. Okay, okay. I know that's the extreme end of the bell-curve. Extra runs of daily first time things will help mitigate the wait......so.....

    #4

    If I'm looking at a quest I really like and really like grinding (they do exist). I can see myself currently running it and only it for a whole Saturday on and off. 10xN, H, E makes for 12 runs. But since the first runs are exempt on the other difficulties still. We're looking at 10x runs in one day for the sake of xp penalty. So, two penalty free runs? Then maybe a quick (hah) bounce through the harbor and korthos for a +26% makes run three -4%. Run four: -34%. Run five: -64% and locked? (-90% capped +26%) Run six through ten: -64%. That's how I'm seeing it anyways. Now for a comparison check.

    Old Way: 100%+100%+100%+90%+80%+70%+60%+50%+40%+30% = 720%
    New Way: 100%+100%+97%+ 67%+37%+37%+37%+37%+37%+37% = 586%

    Hmmm....oooookay.....that sucks.

    Well what if I don't go for one day overkill. What if I break it up over two days Saturdays a week apart where I've been too busy to plan in the intervening time (it happens). The oldway progression won't be affected. The new way will require two passes throguh all of Korthos and the Harbor (ick). But the numbers would look something like:

    Old Way: 720%

    New Way (Day1): 100%+100%+97%+ 67%+37%+
    *Seven days pass throwing 35% in. But.....does the first next two runs bounce the decay back up to a full 90%? No idea. But let's assume.
    New Way (Day2): 72%+42%+37%+37%+37% = 626%

    So.....seven extra days, two long runs through Korthos/Harbor (or the equivilant out there in actual xp generating quests) and I'm still not pulling the xp I used to.

    Ok, that's enough imagination for today. I'm going to go play LIVE some more now.

    In conclusion though....

    As far as I can see, we're reducing grind and making xp more plentiful by increasing grind and giving you less xp. *shrug*

    And it bears mentioning once again (to be fair) that I tend to pull most of my xp from kill/breakable type bonuses anyways. As long as I can pull 1% of base xp I've personally got nothing to complain about. But it's not going to stop me from trying to leverage whatever system we have/get. My time is precious to me. Where I choose to spend it - how I choose to spend it.

    Feel free to point out a better schema to me. This is just how my mind has wrapped around what I've seen of the new change. I could be missing something HUGE and/or obvious. I hope I am. The world in which I've missed the point is a familiar one. Just set me straight.
    "I gots me a bad feeling about this..."

  18. #138
    Community Member GrrArgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrrArgh View Post
    #3

    If I plan on ransacking a quest to 90% and then not running it again....+5% a day. I mean I suppose I could make a few runs on one character and then shelve him for 180 days while I run other characters (I have 30+, sue me, I like building characters.) but I DO like to play my favorites more than one day every 6 months. Okay, okay. I know that's the extreme end of the bell-curve. Extra runs of daily first time things will help mitigate the wait......so.....
    It's not letting me edit my post and I just realized the grevious math error here.

    #3

    If I plan on ransacking a quest to 90% and then not running it again....+5% a day. I mean I suppose I could make a few runs on one character and then shelve him for 18 days while I run other characters (I have 30+, sue me, I like building characters.) but I DO like to play my favorites more than one day every third week. Okay, okay. I know that's the extreme end of the bell-curve. Extra runs of daily first time things will help mitigate the wait......so.....
    "I gots me a bad feeling about this..."

  19. #139
    Community Member dark270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephisto-Helix View Post
    I agree, those penalties are absurd. Whomever thought this up really has no grasp on tr'ing for completionist nor how badly this will affect grouping. It's silly and vindictive and has no place in our game. Scrap it or stand to lose many many more players.
    agree totally!

    if this **** goes thu, im walking away from this game
    Its not who i am that matters, its what i do that defines me.
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  20. #140
    Community Member Kza's Avatar
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    Way way over the top in extremeely hard xp penalties. This force people to play the game one way. If some ppl like to do the same quest many times i have 0 problems with that. Right thing to do is to make the xp better from bad quests and have a nice decay xp penalty and leave it that way.

    Introducing xp decay and in same time make repetitions be way crappier? I dont understand the logic, my brain hurts.

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