Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 48
  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    3rd star from the left, and on til morning...
    Posts
    2,629

    Default

    Not everyone lives for raids. I'm rarely able to find a group for a raid anyway, and without hirelings stand no chance of soloing 'em. Yes, I'm a member of a big guild, but work and life commitments keep me from their 'scheduled activities."

    So at this point using "raids" as an end game just counts me out. I won't be getting any of that good raid loot anytime soon (excepting what I can buy in the ASAH..*cough*).

    In fact my biggest complaint with the Xpac is all that it offers me is more quests which I -should- automatically get as a VIP and the Owlbear which is a big disappointment so far and based on posted remarks I doubt will be good enough to warrant the $80? (I forget prices.)

    If theyd've made the hireling decent and not required the legendary to get it, I'dve bought it in a flash. Right now I'm waiting to see what they do and if they make the Owlbear decent I'll step off VIP to afford it.

    I am also not a big fan of living-to-TR and I am not a big fan of farming destinies I can't use. I sure wish the Destiny/Fate Point system was designed better to reward focused builds and I think that would be a much better use of developer/designer time than all this focus on how to "enhance" *cough* TR. Sure that should be done, but after the design issues in the current system are addressed.

    Make the game fun, not a repetitive quiz and give our focused builds more access to content and a lotta people like me will love it.

  2. #22
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    Why running something where there is no fun, just bigger numbers?
    I don't think this thread is about end game content. Two days ago I fiddled around in Epic Gianthold (adventure area) on my cleric and watched the LFM panel on Thelanis. There was not a single LFM for level 25 the ENTIRE evening. Not one.

    There is actually plenty to do at endgame. All of the challenges are playable up to and including level 25, some of them to level 30. There are old epic chains, there are new epic chains. You can also shortman the sub-20 raids for increased difficulty and the loot acquired is at least usable for your next TR. There are the epic raids and a few epic side quests, as well.

    The problem that is trying to be addressed is the lack of people willing to run endgame content. It has been made clear by people other than myself that most of the game is currently cycling the sub-20 TR loop. This thread is about making those people conform to the end game grind.

    Just like the Epic Advantage fiasco, nothing presented here will work. Let me try to explain it, one last time.

    Shortly before the ASAH was released, I looked at the number of AH pages (on my server) because I thought it would show both population trends and the effects of the ASAH. It was about 660 pages at that point. Suprisingly, shortly after the ASAH was released it jumped to over 700 pages. The population had gone up. I took a break for a couple of months. When I came back, it was down to 550 pages. A few days ago when I checked it was at 497 pages.

    People have left. They aren't here anymore to be enticed to play for loot. Would they come back? Yeah, maybe. Will they? Who knows, but I really doubt they would because someone added some new epic loot to the raid they've done a hundred and fifty times. DDO's main appeal is the active combat system. Better and better raid loot, higher and higher levels, more and more past lives, and bugs on top of bugs just hide that appeal.

    If there is a solution, it is fixing gameplay.
    Last edited by Raithe; 06-19-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  3. #23
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post

    If there is a solution, it is fixing gameplay.
    With you so far . . . details please.

  4. #24
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    With you so far . . . details please.
    If he's talking about fixing bugs no argument, but I've seen him argue for the max cl caster bug that was u18-18.1 to stay and that sorcs should be web / hage bots, so I wouldn't look to far for ideas that aren't game destroying from him.

  5. #25
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    If he's talking about fixing bugs no argument, but I've seen him argue for the max cl caster bug that was u18-18.1 to stay and that sorcs should be web / hage bots, so I wouldn't look to far for ideas that aren't game destroying from him.
    Yeah, but he was on a roll.

    My believe it that PEOPLE WHO USED TO RUN END-GAME (not talking about 100% of the players) did it for loot. We need loot incentives to get people to do that again, and raiding is a huge part of this.

  6. #26
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Yeah, but he was on a roll.

    My believe it that PEOPLE WHO USED TO RUN END-GAME (not talking about 100% of the players) did it for loot. We need loot incentives to get people to do that again, and raiding is a huge part of this.
    Oh yeah my guild used to run a raid week something like

    Tod x2-3 a week
    eVon5/6 1x a week
    Shroud 1x a week
    eDQ 1x a week
    Abbot 1-2x a week
    echrono 1x a week
    lob 1x a week

    now it's
    citw 1x week
    fot 1x a week
    von5/6 maybe every other week.

    Why because other than for kicks there is no reason to run the other stuff.

  7. #27
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Oh yeah my guild used to run a raid week something like

    Tod x2-3 a week
    eVon5/6 1x a week
    Shroud 1x a week
    eDQ 1x a week
    Abbot 1-2x a week
    echrono 1x a week
    lob 1x a week

    now it's
    citw 1x week
    fot 1x a week
    von5/6 maybe every other week.

    Why because other than for kicks there is no reason to run the other stuff.
    It's self-evident to former end-game players what it takes to revive raiding. For the slow people that's loot.

    To people who never played end-game to begin with you simply don't get it and have nothing to add to the discussion. For those of you who never raided honestly regarding this issue you do not matter because you were never part of the end-game in the first place.

    Don't mean to be cruel, just keeping it real.

    TLDR: We need more raids with viable loot and then people might get off the TR treadmill and run end-game.

  8. #28
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Forum sucks ass double post, see below for the real post
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 06-19-2013 at 07:01 PM.

  9. #29
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    Also, Did Feather of Son not mention that old loot is old loot and he won't upgrade them?

    Why running something where there is no fun, just bigger numbers?
    You weren't here when that was end game I take it? That's pretty much what everyone did, the why is in getting those epic upgrade seals scrolls and shards, and raid loot. A system of progression that was probably too harsh and slow for most players, a less harsh more gradual system (but one with much more possibility for upgrade) suggests itself in heroic commendation upgrades. Why old stuff? Because it's faster to implement and the game currently is in desperate need of things to do with characters that are at cap... This need is going to get worse when they go to 28 level capo in a couple months and there's literally a handful of things to do at all. Two raids and ED farming is sad to say paltry compared to the End game that was there at level 20 cap. 10 quests and no raids is even more paltry.

    Loot upgrades have been a completely successful tried and true way to encourage people to replay content, without people replaying content LFM's don't fill and the panel only has a group or two in any level range... People start talking about dead game and ghost town. Without people playing quests more than once, the new content gets blazed through in a matter of weeks and the activity levels plummet.

    Items upgraded to ML30 (5 tiers of upgrades) if done right are going to take long enough that the character is definitely going to be level 30 by the time they finish the upgrade process (or 28 if the cap is still at 28). Same with ML 22, 24 26 and 28, in fact you'll probably not get enough Collectables (ingredients)/Commendations to even make the the ML24 by the time you're capped. If you're thinking of Epic TR's well they already have to gear around ML's nothing new here.

    You have a curious recollection of what feather said; he's already said he's currently polishing old epic loot to A) make it consistent with the new base items that he upgraded during the augment changes. B) bring it in line with the effort it takes and current gear. He's already upgraded lots of old loot, during the augment changes, he went over nearly every item in the game from level 1 through about 12 plus Gianthold., not just adding augments but buffing many things to be far more useful and interesting. Whirlwind a DEX/DEX to hit and damage greatsword with a red augment. Dynastic Falcata is every Sorc's dream with CHA/CHA and two red slots for spell power (actually blue and red but a Sorc's going to use it for red most of the time), might also be a Pali's dream weapon if they went for 20 CHA and had to gimp STR to do it.

    He also polished Abbot loot a while back, and added upgrade seals and upgradability to both Abbot and Reavers fate.

    Then there's the freakin' awesome tome page turn in weapons which were given buffs and are arguably end game worthy for the right niche build. and a polish pass on all the shields and Helms from Necro Turn ins.

    In short what game are you paying attention to where Feather wont upgrade old stuff?

  10. #30
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Wow 13 min apart double post, these forums are seriously fubar.

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    1) Turbine won't do it for no revenue since a lot of people already owned these packs.
    I did suggest when Epic GH was coming out that Turbine should release one or two Monster Manuals that contain mobs from the pack, so the company could get some revenue from player who own the pack already. And they did release a Monster Manual with GH with alot of GH focused mobs. So there are the tangent sources of revenue such as this that could give the Turbine an incentive to revisit old packs.

  12. #32
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It's self-evident to former end-game players what it takes to revive raiding. For the slow people that's loot.
    We need more raids with viable loot and then people might get off the TR treadmill and run end-game.
    Yes and no. We used to run raids because that's where the best loot was. Unfortunately that ship has sailed. You can get better or comparable loot now from quests or various turn ins, the raid items are no longer so shiney and likely never will be. Raids also have to be fun. Marty and LoB never caught on because they just weren't fun to run. CitW wasn't fun to run but the loot made it attractive for a while, but it has no sustainability. Fall of Truth was the perfect raid when it first came out. It was fun to run and had something everyone wanted in commendations which everyone got every run. There were probably tons of FoT LFMs and had great word of mouth. Then they went and changed the raid so of course LFMs plummeted benefiting no one.

    I really miss the days of running 6 raids in a day. I don't know how you get that back. There are lots of us who don't have a desire to play EE that are dominated by cheese builds of juggernauts or shiradi caster spamming. Hence all there is TR until you get sick of that and move on the a new game.

  13. #33
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Wow 13 min apart double post, these forums are seriously fubar.
    I hit send, got distracted by my little ones, came back to the "corrupt content error", hit back button, and then added a line or four, and hit send and the original was there... I'm not sure if they're even working on the steaming pile any more but it's a little insane.

  14. #34
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffyanne View Post
    Yes and no. We used to run raids because that's where the best loot was. Unfortunately that ship has sailed. You can get better or comparable loot now from quests or various turn ins, the raid items are no longer so shiney and likely never will be. Raids also have to be fun. Marty and LoB never caught on because they just weren't fun to run. CitW wasn't fun to run but the loot made it attractive for a while, but it has no sustainability. Fall of Truth was the perfect raid when it first came out. It was fun to run and had something everyone wanted in commendations which everyone got every run. There were probably tons of FoT LFMs and had great word of mouth. Then they went and changed the raid so of course LFMs plummeted benefiting no one.

    I really miss the days of running 6 raids in a day. I don't know how you get that back. There are lots of us who don't have a desire to play EE that are dominated by cheese builds of juggernauts or shiradi caster spamming. Hence all there is TR until you get sick of that and move on the a new game.
    Offer up 6-10 raids that have compelling loot... There's no reason they can't, I'm not sure of the "we can never go back" vibe I'm getting from your post, but I think you're mystifying an uncomplicated problem. 6 to 10 raids and 25 or 30 "end game" AKA 28th level epics, with cool loot in them that all have 5 tiers of possible upgrades. And people will hang out to play them them instead of immediately TR'ing (especially if they put in the train wreck of "Epic Advantage" TR'ing).

    basically old loot buffed: see the newly buffed tome page turn ins I'll give an example:

    Old Deathnips: 19-20X4 crit range 1d6 base damage, seeker +6 Maiming
    Current Deathnips same wonderful crit range, 1.5[W] base damage, Seeker +10, Improved bloodletter Red Augment
    Proposed Epic Deathgouge: ML20 same crit range 2[W], d6 base damage becomes d8, same Seeker +10, Greater bloodletter, Red Aug
    Tier 1 ML22 Seeker +15
    Tier 2 ML24 3[W]
    Tier 3 ML26 Maiming
    Tier 4 ML28 Purple Slot
    Tier 5 ML30 Superior Bloodletter
    (tier 6? 7? who knows)

    You are damn straight I would replay some content to swing that around at 28-30 and I'm not much for farming or grinding etc... but some things are worth repeating content for. My FvS uses a bow, she needs lore in a slot where most healers use a caster stick... she needed Noxious, not burning, embers (sorry that was another thread) because she also had better armor than Blue dragon scale (not as much now that flawless blue exists) so she did Abbot's, along the way she got Unwavering Ardency which I didn't even know about, best bow in the game before Sinew and Pinion if you like crits (19-20X3 17-20 with improved crit basically the Bow version of Carnifex) and high base damage... So then she needed Abbot seals when those got buffed to have upgrades, and a seal for the quiver to free boots slot of the need to have striding... Still don't have all three of those... In the mean time she looted Vile Blasphemy the upgrade to those is also nice, more charges of SP regeneration... that's 4 seals... She's still doing Abbots every time one pops up which on Thelanis is surprisingly often... Why? Because even for an old raid it has great loot and that loot has hard to get upgrade seals... keeping people playing. The Quiver has no ML so upgrade it and your TR can have striding 30% from Korthos onward... good loot motivates repetition, lots of TR's flag for abbot and run the raid only because of the quiver. That's a lot more than just Abbot, thats, Fleshmakers, GOP, Inferno, litany etc. LFM's up all the time for those... why? good XP, good loot, but also flagging for Abbot... So people still run it. I don't often agree with the elitists or so called power gamers or so called end gamers... But the evidence of what keeps people playing the game is rather obvious.

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    You weren't here when that was end game I take it?
    I was here. I just don't play very often. I hate the old scroll, seal and shards mechanic. I actually have tons of those, and even can make some items. Just do not feel like making the old mechnectarun epic items. The only items I think are good from there are the Epic Ring of Spell Storing, may be Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum, and Epic Marilith Chain back then. ERSS I never found the components for except the scroll and the base item. Made an Epic Bracer of Deftness, Epic Pouch of Jerky and an Epic Chaosblade and do not feel like making any more... and do not want to run it anymore.

    In short what game are you paying attention to where Feather wont upgrade old stuff?
    He did say he won't upgrade old epic loot. That includes the Mechnectarun old epic loot.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  16. #36
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    356

    Default

    I used to join raids for the fun of it. Yeah loot was a nice bonus if you pulled something cool. But all in all, I liked raiding for the 'woohoo' feeling of running around with 11 other players to complete a goal, and in particular I liked it when a raid went pearshaped and everyone had to step up their game to pull it off.

    Loot? Meh, it's nice but not essential to my wanting to join a raid. I mean I still do shroud runs even though I don't need anything from shroud now but ... yeah ... it's a fun raid still. So I'll keep on joining groups for it.

    However, what ppl find fun is very subjective.

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Offer up 6-10 raids that have compelling loot... There's no reason they can't, I'm not sure of the "we can never go back" vibe I'm getting from your post, but I think you're mystifying an uncomplicated problem. 6 to 10 raids and 25 or 30 "end game" AKA 28th level epics, with cool loot in them that all have 5 tiers of possible upgrades. And people will hang out to play them them instead of immediately TR'ing (especially if they put in the train wreck of "Epic Advantage" TR'ing).

    basically old loot buffed: see the newly buffed tome page turn ins I'll give an example:
    [...]
    Its nice to have old epic loot upgraded, and perhaps even fun for a while. But it has drawbacks:

    1) Upgraded old loot makes running content easier and faster and makes the player less challenged and possibly causing whines on the forums saying the content is too easy without quantifying the upgraded shiny.

    2) It caused needless repetitions of quests and grinding in order to upgrade the old epic loot.

    3) Its not my idea of fun. Rather than spending time upgrading old epic loot I would rather have developers work on: new epic loot running in new dungeons and developers spend time in making the monsters smarter, AI better, random set of monsters, random set of quest bullet points; random traps with random saves (i.e. not just reflex) and perhaps random path to the boss so that people don't just stealth to the boss with their eyes closed.

    4) Raids can be fun and all; but it requires a lot of people online at the same time. It is unbalanced and perhaps even unfair to the people that have limited time to play. The old epic loot from Mechnectarun at least had their shards of the items from the Epic Demon Queen raid. Especially if you are in a very small guild; or very inactive guild; or non-guilded and have limited time to play. Perhaps this mechanic even has drawbacks attracting newer players since they usually are not guilded or belong in a smaller guild since bigger guilds want veterans or power gamers.
    Last edited by Tyrande; 06-19-2013 at 10:35 PM.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  18. #38
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    18,720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    But the lack of good raiding is the biggest problem with end-game.
    Epic items were a perfectly good form of end-game, and that didn't require raids...

    But I agree we need epic Shroud and epic ToD at least.

    And I'd like to see ways to upgrade level 20 epic loot to level 28 gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  19. #39
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,690

    Default

    Making the old raids epic is not a return to the former glory of end game or raiding for that matter rather the only way to return to the old glory is to release 1 new raid every six months or so. We could use a new raid this summer and another new one this winter.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  20. #40
    Community Member RyonsAlt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Making the old raids epic is not a return to the former glory of end game or raiding for that matter rather the only way to return to the old glory is to release 1 new raid every six months or so. We could use a new raid this summer and another new one this winter.
    It seemed to work with Return to Gianthold, an already great pack (praised to be one of the best ever) being upgraded to epic provided veteran players a nostalgic value on the new content while still providing a new raid. I'm not arguing against new content, I'm just saying that there's some old content with potential, an example would be Tempest Spine. There's loot, there's some story that could be expanded on, and it has nostalgia value to it, especially if they add an NPC named Tannk (or was it Taank?) that hasted the group for irony's sake (hopefully someone gets it ).

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload