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  1. #1
    Community Member SilverHeals's Avatar
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    Default Judge my Sorcerer Build

    After spending much time on my melee toons and my healer, I lost focus on casters. Now that I have my toons in raiding positions and I'm looking to start a new toon.

    The build: 18-Sorcerer 2-Monk -- Human
    1-2:Monk
    18-20: Sorcerer

    Stats: 16 Constitution, 18 Charisma, 12 Dexterity

    Feats:
    (1) Maximize; Toughness
    (2) Toughness
    (3) Mental Toughness
    (6) Empower
    (9) Heighten
    (12) Spell Focus: Evocation
    (15) Quicken
    (18) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    ------
    (21) Spell Penetration
    (24) Extend

    Savant: Air Savant III

    Destiny: Magister / Shiradi Champion
    Twists:
    (4) Energy Burst : Ice
    (1) Boulder
    (1) Rejuvenation Cocoon

    Gear:
    Armor: Epic Blue Dragonscale Robe
    Goggles: GS Concordant Opposition
    Helm: Epic Blue Helm(Cha +3)
    Necklace: Health +6
    Trinket: Planar Focus(Cha +8)
    Cloak: Epic Cloak of Night
    Belt: Water Savant Belt
    Ring 1: Water Savant Ring
    Ring 2: (Filler)
    Boots: GS - Min II
    Gloves: Gloves of the Glacier
    Bracers: Bracers of the Glacier

    Weapon: Twilight, Element of Magic

    #2: Staff of the Petitioner

    Spells: I'm not going to put a whole list of all the spells since I can't remember, but ill list some important ones. Get the force spells and all ice spells along with FoD and CoD, take Otto Sphere, Irresistable, and decide on Mass Hold Monster or Wail.


    Thanks for reading through! Evaluate me as harsh as you can be, it can only make it better

    Thanks. - Silver

  2. #2
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    Are you planning on using the monk levels for melee at all? If not, I would take Rogue for Evasion and UMD instead. Up to you whether you try to work in trap skills. If you're taking Monk and planning to melee, you'll need to take TWF or be useless. Also, the Monk levels come with feats that can only be martial, like toughness, TWF, stunning fist, etc. Might not be useful if you don't plan on melee. I think Rogue works best assuming you won't be in melee.

    On your feats, a Sorc doesn't really need Mental Toughness unless its a pre-req for something (and Savants don't need it for pre-reqs). You'll have lots of SP without it. Quicken isn't one I've found a need for on my air sorc; sorcs cast faster than wizzies and I've never needed it. Extend at 24 is kinda ?. By the time you get that far, most of your timed spells will be at 24 minutes. Even the ones that don't run 1 minute per level will last 5 or 6 minutes. Plenty of time.

    By the way, you can't take metamagic feats like Maximize, Empower, etc until you have caster levels, so you can't do what you're planning with maximize.

    Would suggest feats as follows:

    Assuming Rogue levels

    1 Toughness
    1. human bonus - Dodge (kinda tough choice, you can't take metamagics and you won't be a melee toon and I kinda like dodge) Maybe 2nd Toughness?
    3. Empower
    6. Maximize
    9. Spell Focus Evocation (or other school depending on your spell choices)
    12. Spell Penetration
    15. Greater Spell Focus Evocation (same school as in 9)
    18. Heighten
    21. Epic Spell Focus Evocation
    24. Maybe Greater Spell Penetration

    I think the biggest thing to remember about Sorcs is they are nukers. Its not like a wizzie building for a Necro DC caster. Sorcs need to deliver the big punches fast and hard. Spell Focus will help a lot.

  3. #3
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayworks View Post
    Are you planning on using the monk levels for melee at all? If not, I would take Rogue for Evasion and UMD instead.

    On your feats, a Sorc doesn't really need Mental Toughness unless its a pre-req for something (and Savants don't need it for pre-reqs). You'll have lots of SP without it. Quicken isn't one I've found a need for on my air sorc; sorcs cast faster than wizzies and I've never needed it.


    1 Toughness
    1. human bonus - Dodge (kinda tough choice, you can't take metamagics and you won't be a melee toon and I kinda like dodge) Maybe 2nd Toughness?
    3. Empower
    6. Maximize
    9. Spell Focus Evocation (or other school depending on your spell choices)
    12. Spell Penetration
    15. Greater Spell Focus Evocation (same school as in 9)
    18. Heighten
    21. Epic Spell Focus Evocation
    24. Maybe Greater Spell Penetration

    I think the biggest thing to remember about Sorcs is they are nukers. Its not like a wizzie building for a Necro DC caster. Sorcs need to deliver the big punches fast and hard. Spell Focus will help a lot.
    He stated shiradi or magister. I personally think he needs to pick one, because it changes the build, a lot. Swapping is boring :P
    Extend, period, is meh. Leave it for the wizards.
    My sorc abuses the hell out of quicken when he goes to EE.. my concentration is 0 as far as those giants care. >.<
    Personally, drop both rogue and monk ideas (ew) and go paladin. Charisma mod to saves? Fun.
    If Shiradi, drop spell penetration and all spell focus, aside from pre-req for Savant. And take mental toughness, because.. Why not.
    If Magister, no clue. Never played a magister sorc.. DI and shiradi looked like more fun.

  4. #4
    Community Member SilverHeals's Avatar
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    Default C

    My build is strictly 2- Monk because I get evasion along with free toughness feats. Rogue would not give really any bonus to the build except for UMD which sorcs are already capable of getting 40+. As far as paladin goes, it's a nice choice for saves, but there is lack of hp and evasion. Honestly, I have no idea how some sorcerers manage to get 60+ reflex saves even with paladin, I maxed out multiple times at 34. Would have to be: Eva + Hp vs. LoH + Saves.

    With destinies, I have two listed because Magister would be my questing destiny as in, farming gear from EGH. Shiradi would be for raids where I would need more damage. Sure I can play draconic, but everybody plays a draconic sorcerer(or Shiradi but it's nice for kiting in FoT). Magister allows me to grab DCs along with my high spec damage that I already have. As a held monster takes more damage, it won't quite catch up to a draconic sorc, but people will be more appreciative of the cc. It may be how I would like to play my toons.

    For feats, I think I will take sorc at 1st level for maximize + mental toughness early on, and take toughness on monk for levels 2 and 3.


    Thanks for all of your ideas as I will take them all into consideration
    -Silver

  5. #5
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    Sorry, your build makes my eyes bleed For example, SF: enchant. Enchantment spells mostly are subject to spell resistance. And taking those feats is worth more then the 1 DC since it works with PW:Stun, Prismatic spray, FoD, Energy drain and so on...

    However, since you're dead set I'll give 2 considerations.

    The first is to get SF:Evocation by your 6th sorcerer level. This is a preQ for the sorcerer SLAs.
    Second is to take your monk levels at 9-10 instead. Getting your SLA's+Fireball/Acid blast at 6 and then Acid rain/firewall at 8 is really, really good. MAX/EMP burning hands for 2 SP wrecks stuff.

    Tbh, I would drop the build. If you want evasion you might want to go wizard instead for insightful reflexes. Through I think that is just as bad.

    If you want shiradi you might want to consider splashing more. Like 16 sorcerer/2monk/2paladin so your evasion can be usefull in the highest content, or just drop evasion and go 18sorc/2 paladin and keep your wings.
    If you want Magister or Draconic, go pure for the extra CL, SP, capstone etc.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverHeals View Post
    My build is strictly 2- Monk because I get evasion along with free toughness feats. Rogue would not give really any bonus to the build except for UMD which sorcs are already capable of getting 40+. As far as paladin goes, it's a nice choice for saves, but there is lack of hp and evasion. Honestly, I have no idea how some sorcerers manage to get 60+ reflex saves even with paladin, I maxed out multiple times at 34. Would have to be: Eva + Hp vs. LoH + Saves.
    I'm a melee player to death, but here's a little constructive criticism - 2 Monk for Evasion without a good Reflex Save is pretty pointless, as you'll fail the Evasion roll and thus gain no benefit from the feat. Wizards get away doing this because they take Insightful Reflexes, ofc.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasoning and why you'd take dual toughness for the extra HP from the 2 Monk levels, but you need to work hard without the Pally levels to increase that Reflex save. Lithe from SD and Unearthly Reactions from Mag will give you a healthy +12 to Reflex saves, but thats ya T2 and T1 Twists gone, leaving you a T4 choice.

    This is why I've always seen 2 Pally as a good investment over 2 Monk ona Sorc platform. Great Fortitude and Will Saves are very helpful in EE, and having a decent Reflex to mitigate half of that Elemental/Trap Damage is a god send.

    Food for thought.

    Hmm, let's see..

    06 Sorc 18
    03 Monk 2
    02 Epic Levels
    07 Dexterity 24
    07 Resistance +7 Item/Aug
    02 Luck / Good Luck +2 Aug
    04 Insight / Superior Parrying
    04 Morale / GH
    = 35 Reflex, bit meh for EE's...
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    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  7. #7
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    I can see this work as Helf with pally dilly that will give you +5 to your saves, but as for the second monk feat I would take dodge as you get 4% dodge from 2 monk levels and with dodge items you can get a nice dodge number for added survivability.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverHeals View Post
    Stats: 16 Constitution, 18 Charisma, 12 Dexterity
    10 + 16 + 4 = 30 build pts. Too many for a 28-pt build, too few for 32-pt (or higher).
    1-2:Monk
    18-20: Sorcerer
    Feats:
    (1) Maximize; Toughness
    You won't be able to take Max @ 1st lvl if you start monk; gotta be able to cast spells before you can take metas. EDIT: also you'd get 3 feats @ lvl 1, not 2 (1 regular, 1 human, 1 monk).
    (2) Toughness
    Two Toughnesses are overkill, IMHO; I like Sokol's suggestion of Dodge, though that req's DEX 13. Then again, if you're trying to get decent Reflex w/out pally splash on a sorc, you shouldn't dump-stat DEX anyway. I'd go with Resilience if it weren't for the darn 3x spell cooldown penalty.
    (3) Mental Toughness
    MT is overkill on a sorc - even a splashed one - and is better spent on higher DCs and/or Spell Pen (depending on spells).
    (18) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    I agree with those who say Enchant is a poor choice for a sorc if you're not investing in a lot more Spell Pen. Frankly, you wanna play an Enchanter, WF AM is the way to go, IMHO.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 07-02-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I'll Echo a few previous posters

    Feats:
    (1) Maximize; Toughness <- 1st Level Human Monk you will have 3 Feats - Character Level 1, Monk Bonus Martial, Human Bonus - Maximize will not be available as you are not a spell caster

    (2) Toughness <- Currently Level 20 this is worth 23 HP and at Level 25 it is worth 28 HP - I'm sure there is another feat that will bring you more survivability

    (3) Mental Toughness <- This is nice at low levels to supplement spell casting. Just monitor your usage and determine if your style needs this later or if you could benefit from something else.

    (6) Empower <- Good choice for extra damage. Keep in mind that to conserve SP set it up to toggle this on for boosts to damage. In most cases Maximize and Spell Power are usually enough to make things like trash dead

    (9) Heighten <- Good choice to help minimize 1/2 damage. However, if you find that you are casting with Heighten on and still only seeing 1/2 damage - Turn it off as you will be doing the same damage for fewer Spell points.

    (12) Spell Focus: Evocation <- You will want this in time for your Tier 2 PrE

    (15) Quicken <- While I'm not a fan of Quicken on a Sorcerer (And yes I've done EE, but not solo on one) it can be very beneficial with low concentration builds or in places where it is near impossible to make even a good concentration check. I would actually take this later.

    (18) Spell Focus: Enchantment <- Enchantment spells are full of Spell Resistance requirements. Having a Good DC without the ability to penetrate spell resistance will mean that your enchantment spells will only be useful against creatures without spell resistance or with very low spell resistance. I personally would recommend taking the DC in something else such as Conjuration (Webs) or Transmutation (if a Disintegrate user).

    Enchantment and Spell Resistance is the same as Evasion and Reflex save - they are joined as a failure with one negates the benefits of the other.
    ------
    (21) Spell Penetration <- Good choice if using spells that require spell penetration checks, better if Greater Spell Penetration is used.

    (24) Extend <- Most times I will recommend against this, but I do have a caveat - If the length of the buff is not long enough to last through an encounter or where extending it could save a lot of spell points for other things, than it will make sense. However, I find that a non-extended Displacement lasts plenty long and carrying scrolls for emergencies when SP is tight usually covers me well.


    Make sure the Reflex Save matters for the difficulty you are planning on running otherwise having evasion won't matter.

    Spell Selection is actually Key, even more so on a Sorcerer than a Wizard. Wizards have more feats and versatility, thus can switch out spells to be more effective for a specific content. Sorcerer's don't have that option. Of course they could use a Dragonblood to switch spells around in mass but that would become costly in the long run. So your Spell selection is key in that you need to make sure it synergizes with your enhancements and feats to get the maximum benefit.

    Make sure you have enough Skill points to dedicate to the skills you are planning on taking. Keep in mind that concentration checks are made for Scroll casting - Such as Scrolls of Heal spell. Quicken will not help you here. I mention this because until you have Cocoon much of your self healing will come from Scrolls and Wands.

    Work in gear that increases your caster level - boosts damage and Spell Penetration for schools involved.

  10. #10
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    My advice:

    Drop human, go helf. You mis 1 feat, but you don't really need it anyways
    Take pali dile for Cha to saves. This plus evasion has my fleshy sorc sitting at low 40's saves at level 16, without uber endgame gear/ED's.
    Monk feats are either toughnessx2, or toughness and dodge. Either is pretty nice.
    I went 1Monk/2-7Sorc/8Monk/9-20Sorc. Gives evasion and toughness early, and you're gonna be using a carnifex/Mealstrom from 2-12ish anyways.
    Also, I'm only a second life on her atm and at 13 I was already rocking enough UMD for 80% on heal scrolls.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
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    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

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