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  1. #1
    Community Member uberfear2's Avatar
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    Default ddos out of balance intimidate scores

    this is my first rage and its to the devs re guarding intimidate levels of raid bosses:

    mostly intimidate is fair but when u get into Epic elites its out of control EE shadow dragon for instance I was running 104 intimidate some of the highest on server failing to intimidate shadow dragoon on ee on a roll of 20 and some of the tanks on server will vouch for this that the intimidate dc's on bosses in EEs should be scaled back some also EE portals opens I fail on 20s and I feel the devs went a little to high with it if at 124 intimidate on a roll of 20 isn't high enough what is highest I achieved is 134 with a 20 roll please devs recognize this and tone it back at 114 standing intimidate + 20 from a roll is near the intimidate limit I can achieve and most on servers prolly get nowhere near that unless devs way it was intended but in eh and en I can land a intimidate at 84 no fail on a 1 without putting on brawns but EE with full timi I don't get near it.... a response would be nice also I cant even find her intimidate dcs on wiki
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  2. #2
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberfear2 View Post
    this is my first rage and its to the devs re guarding intimidate levels of raid bosses:

    mostly intimidate is fair but when u get into Epic elites its out of control EE shadow dragon for instance I was running 104 intimidate some of the highest on server failing to intimidate shadow dragoon on ee on a roll of 20 and some of the tanks on server will vouch for this that the intimidate dc's on bosses in EEs should be scaled back some also EE portals opens I fail on 20s and I feel the devs went a little to high with it if at 124 intimidate on a roll of 20 isn't high enough what is highest I achieved is 134 with a 20 roll please devs recognize this and tone it back at 114 standing intimidate + 20 from a roll is near the intimidate limit I can achieve and most on servers prolly get nowhere near that unless devs way it was intended but in eh and en I can land a intimidate at 84 no fail on a 1 without putting on brawns but EE with full timi I don't get near it.... a response would be nice also I cant even find her intimidate dcs on wiki
    I used to have 104 intimidate on a first life pure paladin EElob tank when the cap was 20.

    I agree that intim checks aren't where they should be, but at 104 you're quite far from being a max intim build.

  3. #3
    Community Member uberfear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    I used to have 104 intimidate on a first life pure paladin EElob tank when the cap was 20.

    I agree that intim checks aren't where they should be, but at 104 you're quite far from being a max intim build.
    as stated I can get higher with ease I was at 114 and can still go higher my point is even at 114+20 from dice roll that's 134 and its still fail on EE shadow dragon when EH I don't fail on a 1 at 84+1 without Ebrawns there for I see a big issue but never said I was max intimidate I said a lot of tanks don't come near 100 let alone higher but thanks for input
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  4. #4
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I got about 80 intmi at 28, didn't even try to max it.
    Don't like to intimi bosses, but I like to pull trash from puggers to me.

    Anyway, my problem with intimi is, even when its succes and mobs got icon over head, they still won't change target to me even for a single second.
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  5. #5
    Community Member uberfear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I got about 80 intmi at 28, didn't even try to max it.
    Don't like to intimi bosses, but I like to pull trash from puggers to me.

    Anyway, my problem with intimi is, even when its succes and mobs got icon over head, they still won't change target to me even for a single second.
    agreed with you there are some major problems with it that should be looked into but I also don't wanna have to timi a boss but some times with blitzers and the AA fury blast its needed to turn them back also there seems to be a bug that if you try to attack once u hit timi some times the timi don't go off
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  6. #6
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberfear2 View Post
    as stated I can get higher with ease I was at 114 and can still go higher my point is even at 114+20 from dice roll that's 134 and its still fail on EE shadow dragon when EH I don't fail on a 1 at 84+1 without Ebrawns there for I see a big issue but never said I was max intimidate I said a lot of tanks don't come near 100 let alone higher but thanks for input
    2 quick things:

    Like someone said, I really only use intimidate for trash. Displace, gather on me, cocoon, cleave, kite around a bit, etc. If the muncher gets aggro with fury shot then hey let him have it or die.

    Secondly, please use some punctuation. Your posts hurt to read.
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  7. #7
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Anyway, my problem with intimi is, even when its succes and mobs got icon over head, they still won't change target to me even for a single second.
    Same with diplomacy.

    @OP it may be that your roll breaks 100. There were issues with other skills over 100 before (perform, to-hit). Maybe your best bet would be to get 79 intimidate max. Would be cool if you could test if you get better results with it.

    134 is definitely not a fail on EE shadow. There is something broken.
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  8. #8
    Community Member uberfear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    2 quick things:

    Like someone said, I really only use intimidate for trash. Displace, gather on me, cocoon, cleave, kite around a bit, etc. If the muncher gets aggro with fury shot then hey let him have it or die.

    Secondly, please use some punctuation. Your posts hurt to read.
    sorry for lack of punctuation I am a little raged, But in fact intimidate is still broken imho.
    But your way of using intimidate is one way and it still doesn't change fact that at 114+20 roll in EE shadow dragon u fail vs 84+1roll on eh u succeed.
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  9. #9
    Community Member uberfear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Same with diplomacy.

    @OP it may be that your roll breaks 100. There were issues with other skills over 100 before (perform, to-hit). Maybe your best bet would be to get 79 intimidate max. Would be cool if you could test if you get better results with it.

    134 is definitely not a fail on EE shadow. There is something broken.
    I will indeed test it out but I was at 104 last night and rolled a 20 and failed, but ill bump it to 114 again and retest then lower it to 79 and test again thanks for the input
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  10. #10
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    Default Dragons

    Im not entirely sure mant things work on the new dragons period, have you ever been able to bluff dragon? Even sniper shot, which is a no fail bluff doesn't seem to do a thing, there are a few other new bosses that seem immune to no fail things that used to work on bosses, like improved deception. Im guessing its on purpose.

  11. #11
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    When they scaled up EE mobs they didn't only increase HP and damage, they skyrocketed EVERYTHING.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    When they scaled up EE mobs they didn't only increase HP and damage, they skyrocketed EVERYTHING.
    It's more than just the numbers.
    I had issues using it in heroics and on trash (and I don't remember the numbers even at 20, but at maxed skill+gear+buffs it should've been fine). Mostly it worked so inconsistently it wasn't worth relying on. I see the same thing with bluff and diplo, and some of it may be a targeting problem. l didn't have any issue at all getting and generally keeping aggro with threat level, which was surprising considering my DPS wasn't much to look at. As long as I got a few hits in first I could keep a boss's attention even through burst damage and spells. I don't know exactly how it's calculated, but my guess is it's a seperate (and I assume intim score is a factor) calculation and IIRC it was created close to or in conjunction with the last mob AI retool.

    Anyway, I don't know how well it works in EE but I suspect focusing on that would work better than intim by itself. The downside is I don't know of any enhancements for that other than the pally or fighter shield trees, so if that's not your thing..

  13. #13
    Community Member Turbosilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    It's more than just the numbers.
    I had issues using it in heroics and on trash (and I don't remember the numbers even at 20, but at maxed skill+gear+buffs it should've been fine). Mostly it worked so inconsistently it wasn't worth relying on. I see the same thing with bluff and diplo, and some of it may be a targeting problem. l didn't have any issue at all getting and generally keeping aggro with threat level, which was surprising considering my DPS wasn't much to look at. As long as I got a few hits in first I could keep a boss's attention even through burst damage and spells. I don't know exactly how it's calculated, but my guess is it's a seperate (and I assume intim score is a factor) calculation and IIRC it was created close to or in conjunction with the last mob AI retool.

    Anyway, I don't know how well it works in EE but I suspect focusing on that would work better than intim by itself. The downside is I don't know of any enhancements for that other than the pally or fighter shield trees, so if that's not your thing..
    I agree it's more than just numbers because EE is still lacking in challenge. So if boosting numbers didn't add challenge what would actually add challenge?
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  14. #14
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosilk View Post
    I agree it's more than just numbers because EE is still lacking in challenge. So if boosting numbers didn't add challenge what would actually add challenge?
    Check In the Demon's Den. It show up very well how to raise challenge without depending on inflated numbers. (Yes, Elite numbers are higher than normal, but that is NOT the reason why elite is harder)

    Or using the "kobold shaman" scaling: Each difficulty caster mob have a different spell selection. When they act all the same regardless of difficulty, it is easy to predict what they will do.

    Or even simply making some mob types ONLY spawn in higher difficulties, like the beholders on In The Flesh. The varied mob type increases complexity on combat without being overwhelming.

    Anything but "put an extra zero after each stat and call it a day".
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  15. #15
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Check In the Demon's Den. It show up very well how to raise challenge without depending on inflated numbers. (Yes, Elite numbers are higher than normal, but that is NOT the reason why elite is harder)

    Or using the "kobold shaman" scaling: Each difficulty caster mob have a different spell selection. When they act all the same regardless of difficulty, it is easy to predict what they will do.

    Or even simply making some mob types ONLY spawn in higher difficulties, like the beholders on In The Flesh. The varied mob type increases complexity on combat without being overwhelming.

    Anything but "put an extra zero after each stat and call it a day".
    exactly this. it doesn't take thousands of mobs or inflated stats to make it harder on us. it could be say fort reduction or tougher mobs like adding in a beholder or something game changing. or a lich. look at wiz king. they added the wraiths in there. those things are nasty. they can really change things by having mobs that just mess with you or make your life hell. it doesn't need to be omg 800k hp. i would be ok with that if the game was built that way but we did 1k hp every hit etc, but we don't.

  16. #16
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Worse, it was shoehorned into the game to compete against Epic Destinies.

    You can easily notice this if you take a look at how mob HP evolves during the game: Level 1 red-named mobs have 100 or so HP, and it goes in almost a linear progression up to Gianthold, when some elite mobs starts to break the 1k HP barrier. Understandable, since they are giants, and giants are known for being very tough monsters. Once you go back to level 15-17 quests (madness chain, vale, refuge), HP drops again to 700-1000.

    Then suddenly you get IQ and Amrath with their 3k HP mobs. I know this breaking point very well because I have a tendency to create low DPS characters (healing, CC, support) and rely on Manslayer, Smiting, Banishing and Disruption for my kills. IQ is the point where Manslayer stop working reliably as an instakill mechanic.

    Then you get Epic Hard as if it was a continuous line from heroic elite, but once you get out of eberron old epics, it start progressing geometrically instead of linear. And that is in a spam of eight levels, instead of 20. You have more percentual HP variance between Tide Turns and Haunted Halls than you have between Sands and Cannith. And considering that the difference between a level 12 and 20 character is much larger than a level 20 and 28 character, this means something very bad.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosilk View Post
    ... because EE is still lacking in challenge.
    No, it isnt to 98% of the population.
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