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  1. #1
    Community Member
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    May 2013
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    Default Thinking about rolling a "trapchanter" ... any advice?

    (Edit note, no longer planning to finish as a warchanter, so the "trapchanter" part may not be all that accurate any more. Planning to switch to Spellsinger eventually. Latest build plan is in post #20.)

    Yeah, silly newbie tries something again...


    Now, I've seen mentions about bards being self-sufficient and all that, I suppose I could try that myself too.
    I do have one warchanter going already, and traps on elite are getting to be a problem when not having a rogue (or artificer) along with no worthwhile spot, search, evasion, or disable. Especially in a PUG, or a regular (real-life family, most of the time) group with the rogue absent - soloing is actually a bit easier...


    So, given that I see mentions about trap-skilled bards every now and then but most of the relevant links are broken (and while I can figure out how to mangle the URL from old thread-based links, I still don't know what to do about old post-based links - anyone?), I tried to figure out how to do that with the planner...

    Does this look like it might work? Any suggestions on how to make it better with f2p resources? Like, what about going 15/3/2 instead? Fighter instead of ranger, khopesh proficiency in exchange for some skill points, bow strength, rapid shot and favored enemy - is khopesh that good?

    Swap OTWF for something else, maybe? Like weapon finesse (well, take it earlier, really), go DEX-based and put a few points into CON/WIS too for saves (especially fort and will do seem quite low...) ?

    And, yes, this is TWF, because I find glancing blows sort of annoying with my current THF warchanter already, and this thing occasionally gets a bit of sneak attack in too. Besides, with dex for reflex saves and thus working evasion, it doesn't seem like much of a problem...?


    Yes, I could do drow as an alternative, but would that help any? Would some other race be better? I sort of think that all three of drow's +2 stats would help in this case?




    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 226
    Spell Points: 490 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    20
    Dexterity            15                    18
    Constitution         12                    12
    Intelligence         12                    12
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             10                    13
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    10
    Bluff                 4                     5
    Concentration         1                     1
    Diplomacy             0                     1
    Disable Device        5                    24
    Haggle                4                     5
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  3                     5
    Intimidate            0                     5
    Jump                  7                    10
    Listen                0                     0
    Move Silently         3                     5
    Open Lock             6                     8
    Perform               n/a                  24
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                5                    25
    Spot                  3                    23
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                3                     5
    Use Magic Device      4                    24
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening I

    ...hm. Can Ranger Devotion 1 be taken simultaneously with the Bard Song Magic line, and do they stack?
    Last edited by mna; 06-27-2013 at 07:16 AM. Reason: Significant advice received and noted later in the thread.

  2. #2
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    May 2013
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    Default

    Well.

    Going drow seems to ... mostly, lose the healing amp, and gain a point more in a few saves and skills?

    And the spell resistance and +2 save against enchantments, right...

    Oh, and I suppose starting the human version with less CHA would have been possible although slightly annoying for the first couple of bard levels, but here it just won't go any lower... hm, that'd have been the difference in the 1 point of will save...


    Not sure if it's in the end any better than the human version, or worse? Help?


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
    (2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 226
    Spell Points: 510 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    21
    Dexterity            16                    20
    Constitution         12                    12
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma             10                    12
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    11
    Bluff                 4                     5
    Concentration         1                     1
    Diplomacy             0                     1
    Disable Device        6                    25
    Haggle                4                     5
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  4                     6
    Intimidate            0                     5
    Jump                  7                    10
    Listen                1                     3
    Move Silently         4                     6
    Open Lock             7                     9
    Perform               n/a                  24
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                6                    30
    Spot                  4                    28
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                4                     6
    Use Magic Device      4                    24
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Elven Perception I
    Enhancement: Elven Perception II
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

  3. #3
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    if you have the option to roll 32 point builds (AKA champion status) then I would go with human. (extra feat and an extra skill point each level, heal amp and human versatility, if u can squeeze them in) if you don't have 32 point builds, then take the drow. they automatically give you 32 build points, and you'll need them for making a twf trapping bard.

    for feats on a human I would go with: toughness, PA, weapon focus, twf + improved twf + greater twf, improved critical, and extend or empower healing or magical training, depending on your playstyle.

    on a drow I would drop the magical feat, or alternatively add a fighter splash for extra feats.

    khopesh IS good, but in my opinion not good enough to warrant such a sacrifice on a bard build. your toon is a support character, and as such you'll never come close to the damage of the pure melees, regardless of your weapon of choice.
    I prefer to use a high crit profile weapon that gives a useful on-crit effect, such as a rad2 greensteel rapier or sacrificial daggers, for example.

    hope this helps.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    if you have the option to roll 32 point builds (AKA champion status) then I would go with human. (extra feat and an extra skill point each level, heal amp and human versatility, if u can squeeze them in) if you don't have 32 point builds, then take the drow. they automatically give you 32 build points, and you'll need them for making a twf trapping bard.
    Not going to have 32 pt builds in a while, none of my toons are past 1000 favor yet.

    But it didn't seem to me like drow actually would help that much in this case...?

    If I start with 8 CHA, things will be annoying until I get at least a +3 CHA item, yes... but in that case the human version will end up at a net of 1 less str and 1 less reflex save at level 20, and will have heal amp and versatility. And that extra feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    for feats on a human I would go with: toughness, PA, weapon focus, twf + improved twf + greater twf, improved critical, and extend or empower healing or magical training, depending on your playstyle.

    on a drow I would drop the magical feat, or alternatively add a fighter splash for extra feats.
    Um. I was already planning on taking 2 ranger for TWF+ranged help in the TWF case. Can't add a fourth class.

    (Now, THF trapping bard is another thing altogether... and seems to take a hit in reflex saves even if I pump up int a bit and fit in insightful reflexes. Should I still go that way?)

    I suppose I really should drop OTWF for imp crit, though. That gets me both extend AND emp heal on a str-based highish-dex human. (Selected feats in planned order, latest version: toughness, PA, WF slash, FE undead, extend, emp heal, IC slash, ITWF, GTWF. Also gets rapid shot and bow strength. Although I wonder if the leveling sequence isn't quite optimal in that plan...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    khopesh IS good, but in my opinion not good enough to warrant such a sacrifice on a bard build. your toon is a support character, and as such you'll never come close to the damage of the pure melees, regardless of your weapon of choice.
    I prefer to use a high crit profile weapon that gives a useful on-crit effect, such as a rad2 greensteel rapier or sacrificial daggers, for example.
    ...and on-crit effects really need the imp crit feat anyway, right.
    Last edited by mna; 06-16-2013 at 06:30 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    (Now, THF trapping bard is another thing altogether... and seems to take a hit in reflex saves even if I pump up int a bit and fit in insightful reflexes. Should I still go that way?)
    Hm.

    I did play with that in the planner. Should I go the ITHF/GTHF way, or, since I already need PA for warchanter, Cleave/GC? Seems like I could (assuming I ever get into epic levels) easily qualify for Overwhelming Critical with a +2 tome in the latter case...

    Like, about so:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (1 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 206
    Spell Points: 425 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    21
    Dexterity            10                    10
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma             10                    10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               0                     0
    Bluff                 0                     0
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             0                     0
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                0                     0
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  0                     0
    Intimidate            0                     0
    Jump                  3                     5
    Listen                0                     0
    Move Silently         0                     0
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                2                     2
    Spot                  0                     0
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
    Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    But, should I reduce DEX and CHA further and put that into, say, INT or WIS for saves? Assuming I end up going this way...

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The short version: I would dump CHA for more CON; ftr 2 > rgr 2 to a TWF build unless you're going for Manyshot, in which case the extra feat from rgr is better, or you really want rgr Devotion I (yes, it will stack w/bard Song Magic); drop OTWF for Imp Crit.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The short version: I would dump CHA for more CON; ftr 2 > rgr 2 to a TWF build unless you're going for Manyshot, in which case the extra feat from rgr is better, or you really want rgr Devotion I (yes, it will stack w/bard Song Magic); drop OTWF for Imp Crit.
    Yes, well. One of the things my existing warchanter is bad at, is ranged combat - if I could take both bow strength and TWF with just 2 levels of fighter, I would, and gladly.

    The ranger way, dropping extend (at higher levels when things last long enough without it too, if not right away) for point blank shot would make it possible to take manyshot at 21 or 24... if I ever get there. Or as an alternative to ITWF/GTWF.

    So... something like this, now?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 246
    Spell Points: 465 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    20
    Dexterity            15                    18
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         12                    12
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                    11
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    10
    Bluff                 3                     4
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device        5                    24
    Haggle                3                     4
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  3                     5
    Intimidate           -1                     4
    Jump                  7                    10
    Listen                0                     0
    Move Silently         3                     5
    Open Lock             6                     8
    Perform              n/a                   23
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                5                    25
    Spot                  3                    23
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                3                     5
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
    Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR

  8. #8
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    So... something like this, now?
    looks good. I love the idea of having manyshot and gtwf on a trapping bard might have to try it myself sometime

    and don't forget to account for inspire excellence in your epic feats though even with manyshot at 21 or 24, you should have no problem slotting inspire excellence as well.

    keep in mind though that 8 stating cha would mean you would need a +6 item and a +2 tome (or any other +8 total combo) to be able to cast level 6 bard spells.
    also, this means you won't have a high enough cha for casting for at least a few levels early on.

    but down the line you'll have a very fun bard to play, and you'll have free +2 tome coming your way at the 1750 favor mark, so no worries

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    One of the things my existing warchanter is bad at, is ranged combat - if I could take both bow strength and TWF with just 2 levels of fighter, I would, and gladly.
    So, maybe something like this?
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 359
    Spell Points: 805 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             16                    25
    Dexterity            15                    17
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 21 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Inspire Excellence
    
    
    Level 22 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 23 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 24 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 25 (Bard)
    The concept was a self-sufficient melee bard who also has the burst DPS from Manyshot+Imbues. The advantage of going human instead is an extra feat (2 if you count dropping WF:R); the drawback would be losing AA.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

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