Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,574

    Default How I think ETR should work...

    While I'm posting this in the "official" thread, I thought I would bring it hear as well to gather all y'alls thoughts on it...

    As the stated intentions of adding Epic True Reincarntaion into the game is to encourage people to spend more time running Epic quests, I believe the following will achieve that goal while still maintaining the spirit (and promises) of the existing True Reincarnation system; without unduly punishing -or offering undue advantage to- those who have already spent the time and effort of filling out their destiny map.

    With Epic True Reincarnation, we are introducing a new completionist track: Epic Completionist. Using an Epic Heart of Wood will cause your Epic character to be reborn at level 1. ETR will wipe all heroic & epic level xp, as well as the xp of your chosen (active and "maxed") destiny. You receive both a class and a destiny past life feat from this process. All other (non-active) destinies will survive the ETR process. Epic True Reincarnation will be available to Iconic Heros, and will provide the appropriate Iconic past life in place of a class past life.

    Iconic True Reincarnation will be blended with Heroic True Reincarnation. Just as Veteran status only applies to a standard "first life," so does an Iconics' starting at level 15. Upon (Epic or Heroic) True Reincarnation, Iconic Heros will start at level 1 and acquire the appropriate Iconic past life feat.

    Both forms of True Reincarnation will reset quest completion counters as the standard True Reincarnation already does.

    As the "Epic Advantage" seemed to be compensatory for loosing all "unbonded" destiny xp, under the above system that would no longer be happening, I would suggest scrapping that part of the idea.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-16-2013 at 05:26 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    My opinion is that this doesn't work. Too easy to level from 20 to 28 while using a maxed ED (that works well with the class) to then TR another one that doesn't work so much with the class.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    My opinion is that this doesn't work. Too easy to level from 20 to 28 while using a maxed ED (that works well with the class) to then TR another one that doesn't work so much with the class.
    Even with Turbine's proposal you can do that. You'll have at least one maxed out Destiny (the bonded one you TRed with). Once you hit cap (don't take 27 & 28), farm rusted blades in your new destiny. Rusted blades is 22, and epic quests ease the over level by 2, so it is 24. You take a 10% on normal, and nothing on hard.

    The OPs proposal is fine, and works the same. It just means you don't TR at least one good destiny, as opposed to bonding the good destiny.

  4. #4
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    My opinion is that this doesn't work. Too easy to level from 20 to 28 while using a maxed ED (that works well with the class) to then TR another one that doesn't work so much with the class.
    So you would ETR, wiping all exp from the destiny you want a past life from, then relevel in a powerful destiny (that you apparently don't want a past life from) just so you could, after capping, relevel the destiny you gave up (because you still want those fate points) before ETRing again? That sounds confusing to me.

    Scenario I was picturing:

    Barbarian Bob wants the past life benefit (whatever it turns out to be) from FotW. So he ETRs, and has to relevel the FotW destiny(probably at an increased cost to keep with the existing theam of TRing). If he wishes to achiev "Epic Completionist (which IMO should result in a new twist slot, but that's a different discussion) he will have to repeat this process 1x per destiny.

    Releveling to cap in a powerful destiny instead of releveling the wiped destiny seems counter productive to me.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Releveling to cap in a powerful destiny instead of releveling the wiped destiny seems counter productive to me.
    I understand and agree with this. But since alot of people farmed crappy quests to level those EDs, they didn't have to level it from the ground up for real (like by real questing).

    Also: Doing for one ED, okay... but for every single ED that you grinded the same quest for. I say no. Now since someone might bring the stone of exp in to tell me i'm wrong, I think it's different. I actually think it was an error from to start to bring these in even though I know it's a really good thing for players without a huge amount of time to put on the game.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Even with Turbine's proposal you can do that. You'll have at least one maxed out Destiny (the bonded one you TRed with). Once you hit cap (don't take 27 & 28), farm rusted blades in your new destiny. Rusted blades is 22, and epic quests ease the over level by 2, so it is 24. You take a 10% on normal, and nothing on hard.
    Re-read this and understand what the problem is from my point of view .

  7. #7
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,269

    Default

    The Developers are going to pull the rugs out from under the feet of any character with more than a couple of Epic Destiny's maxed. They need to let us retain our XP and grant us a Epic PL when we TR at Level 28.

    Heroic TR should not eliminate ED XP at all, ever.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  8. #8
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    ...since alot of people farmed crappy quests to level those EDs, they didn't have to level it from the ground up for real (like by real questing).
    I hate to be dismissive, but I don't see the relevance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Also: Doing for one ED, okay... but for every single ED that you grinded the same quest for. I say no.
    I find this confusing too...

    I made the op from the perspective that they are going to introduce Epic Reincarnation. Cordovans saying that "nothing is set in stone" and that they are open to discussion left me with the impresion that they are only flexible on how it will be implemented, not if.

    I don't see how some people may have acquired there epic level/destiny xp vs. how others did it has any baring on the subject at hand...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    My english is super bad and it's possible that when you read, it doesn't come up with the same meaning that I wanted it to be but i'll at least adress this:

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I don't see how some people may have acquired there epic level/destiny xp vs. how others did it has any baring on the subject at hand...
    I think it all comes from the mistake they made by allowing to farm 1 or 2 quests to level all EDs. Because EDs are the power source for epic content (and not leveling itself) just like Heroic Levels are actually the power source for heroic content. But when you run an heroic life, you can't just farm 1 or 2 quest to level from 1 to 20. See the difference.

    You don't wanna compare 1-20 with 20-25 (28) but 1-20 with the EDs. And I think it's fair to say that getting a Past Life feat out of grinding 1 or 2 quests without any effort shouldn't be allowed.

    Hope that's a bit more clear.

  10. #10
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    I think it's fair to say that getting a Past Life feat out of grinding 1 or 2 quests without any effort shouldn't be allowed.

    Hope that's a bit more clear.
    Ok, I think I understand what you're saying now.

    Under the system I suggested, people would only have that benefit on their first ETR, because they already did it. However, after epically TRing, and thus starting at 20 with an "empty" destiny to level, they couldn't realistically do that a second time. Especially with challenge xp having been nuked, trying to get from 20 to 28 by farming just 1 or 2 quests would be the harder way to go.

    I didn't included in my initial proposition something that I assumed: ETRing would reset quest repetition counters just like HTRing. So it would be more beneficial for players to relevel from 20-28 (and relevel the reincarnated destiny at the same time) by running a variety of epic content rather than farming an individual quest "until their eyes bleed" as has become the popular expression among forumites.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  11. #11
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    mistake they made by allowing to farm 1 or 2 quests to level all EDs.
    I for one did not farm quests. I leveled destinies on each TR I did over the last year and a half until I had every destiny leveled to 5 and maximized fate points. Assuming that everyone ran Rusted Blades is not correct.

    I spent time and money doing this because the Developers told us that maximizing Destinies was a good thing. I enjoyed it, the questing was great and so was the XP. To take that all away in such a fashion is poor taste on the Developers part.

    This game needs:

    Bank overhaul
    Epic Content
    End Game Raids
    Bug Fixes
    before Epic TRing
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    I for one did not farm quests. I leveled destinies on each TR I did over the last year and a half until I had every destiny leveled to 5 and maximized fate points. Assuming that everyone ran Rusted Blades is not correct.

    I spent time and money doing this because the Developers told us that maximizing Destinies was a good thing. I enjoyed it, the questing was great and so was the XP. To take that all away in such a fashion is poor taste on the Developers part.

    This game needs:

    Bank overhaul
    Epic Content
    End Game Raids
    Bug Fixes
    before Epic TRing
    I did not assume this since I also did not do it. I just can't it's killing me. What I said is I see where the proposition is coming from and I understand that it should be that way. You think I want my EDs wiped? Not at all but I don't think it's fair to get a PL feat without a challenge of any sort. Even if it means that you and me that did it the legit way has to pay for the others.

    Btw I lied when I pretented all of my EDs were maxed. 2 are lvl 4 and 1 is still lvl 3... But i'm still pretty far in the process to capping.

    Edit: You paid. It took me time... pretty much the same.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 06-15-2013 at 09:54 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member legendkilleroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    537

    Default

    I kinda agree with Azar,

    Depends on what the epic past life feats look like, but if you ETR and start again at 20 i can see people having all the feats in just a few weeks, where ofc starting from lv1 again is going to take alot more time

  14. #14
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,574

    Default

    Hmm, ok, on reflection of the numbers: assuming those determined to do so will TR every 3 days (Turbine has said they plan to reduce the timer) that would currently only equal a 33 day minimum epic completionist... Yah, that's unreasonably fast.

    Will edit op to address this.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #15
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Hmm, ok, on reflection of the numbers: assuming those determined to do so will TR every 3 days (Turbine has said they plan to reduce the timer) that would currently only equal a 33 day minimum epic completionist... Yah, that's unreasonably fast.

    Will edit op to address this.
    That's only unrealistically fast if you disregard that most of the work was done over the ~1.5 years between epic destinies being released and the past lives associated with them coming out.

    For myself, I thought the system we were given to accumulate twists and the fate points to use them was awful. But I did (actually am still in the process of doing) it anyway because that was the only system we were offered. Now to have them come back and say they have a new, and in some ways better, system but all of us who did it the old awful way will have to do it all again the new way really annoys me.

    I would put this in the same category as the new TR xp curve they also mentioned wiping all past lives done under the old harder system.

  16. #16
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,509

    Default

    As it stands at the moment, the XP needed to get to 28 would be 6,600,00 XP, my guestimate is that this will be reduced to 4,500,000 XP. Numbers guestimated here

    Assuming they keep the ED XP at 1,980,000 XP to cap it, the idea of just wasting that extra 2,520,000 XP in other destines and getting nothing for it isn't great. The idea that you can put these points into other ED's and get something from it with their advantage isn't a bad idea.

    People have complained that getting this advantage at level 1 makes it worthless, because you just do Haverdashed EHN and a Recovering the Lost Tome Elite and you're level 2 in 15 minutes if you take your time. Others have complained that they don't want any advantage and want to start at level 1. So allowing you to make use of your Veteran I and Veteran II status and starting you off on the Heart of Wind and giving you all of the options seems like the best solution. Mock up to illustrate it here.

    I prefer the idea of Iconics always starting at level 15 when you TR them, but I can live with that either way. I also don't think they should touch the Heroic XP curve, it's fine as it is.

    The real killer is the notion that a Heroic TR will reset your ED XP. That's the deal breaker for me. If they make it clear this isn't being touched, then we can move the discussion on to what the new Iconic and ED Past Life Feats should be.

  17. #17
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    While I'm posting this in the "official" thread, I thought I would bring it hear as well to gather all y'alls thoughts on it...

    As the stated intentions of adding Epic True Reincarntaion into the game is to encourage people to spend more time running Epic quests, I believe the following will achieve that goal while still maintaining the spirit (and promises) of the existing True Reincarnation system; without unduly punishing -or offering undue advantage to- those who have already spent the time and effort of filling out their destiny map.

    With Epic True Reincarnation, we are introducing a new completionist track: Epic Completionist. Using an Epic Heart of Wood will cause your Epic character to be reborn at level 1. ETR will wipe all heroic & epic level xp, as well as the xp of your chosen (active and "maxed") destiny. You receive both a class and a destiny past life feat from this process. All other (non-active) destinies will survive the ETR process. Epic True Reincarnation will be available to Iconic Heros, and will provide the appropriate Iconic past life in place of a class past life.

    Iconic True Reincarnation will be blended with Heroic True Reincarnation. Just as Veteran status only applies to a standard "first life," so does an Iconics' starting at level 15. Upon (Epic or Heroic) True Reincarnation, Iconic Heros will start at level 1 and acquire the appropriate Iconic past life feat.

    Both forms of True Reincarnation will reset quest completion counters as the standard True Reincarnation already does.

    As the "Epic Advantage" seemed to be compensatory for loosing all "unbonded" destiny xp, under the above system that would no longer be happening, I would suggest scrapping that part of the idea.

    Thoughts?
    This all sounds reasonable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload