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  1. #1
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    Question What is happening with the playerbase (VoN5 experience)

    Dear all,

    today I had a strange experience in a VoN5 elite raid at level. Yes, I know a lot of people already complained about this pain ... Furthermore we were only 6 people and tried to shortmen it.

    I was on my juggenaut build (arti 8/2/2) and had few problems with the traps, because we were without a real evasion trapper guy (died 10 times at north side, took a long time ...)

    Finally we made it to the endfight where the real pain started.

    We did few damage to the Arach's Knight (we brought him to 50%) when the dogs spawned (i was on my Min2, i know it does heal him a bit but do more dmg totally => 50to100dmg-10heal=>still 40-90dmg). At that point we had not enough dps to bring him down with all the dogs alive, so I killed the doggies when the people started to call me names :P After strange discussion even after referencing to the ddowiki explanation that the fire dog has to be killed to stop the hp regeneration of the knight (normally the lightning one as well to stop the aoe effect of him), especially 2 of the guys (ok, one was a girl and the other one the partyleader from the same guild) didnt stopped to blame me for the mess.

    After we released the two gave me tells: "noob", "learn the game", "thank you for wasting 2hours and my 50% pot" and so on.

    So my question is ... what is happening with the playerbase? Are only people still around who are not willing to read the ddowiki cause they think they know everything? Was thery a lack of communication (only voice chat, no one was willing to type)

    what do you think?

    Regards Bo
    EU player since release, US player since winter 2009.

  2. #2
    Community Member hermespan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBach View Post
    Dear all,

    today I had a strange experience in a VoN5 elite raid at level. Yes, I know a lot of people already complained about this pain ... Furthermore we were only 6 people and tried to shortmen it.

    I was on my juggenaut build (arti 8/2/2) and had few problems with the traps, because we were without a real evasion trapper guy (died 10 times at north side, took a long time ...)

    Finally we made it to the endfight where the real pain started.

    We did few damage to the Arach's Knight (we brought him to 50%) when the dogs spawned (i was on my Min2, i know it does heal him a bit but do more dmg totally => 50to100dmg-10heal=>still 40-90dmg). At that point we had not enough dps to bring him down with all the dogs alive, so I killed the doggies when the people started to call me names :P After strange discussion even after referencing to the ddowiki explanation that the fire dog has to be killed to stop the hp regeneration of the knight (normally the lightning one as well to stop the aoe effect of him), especially 2 of the guys (ok, one was a girl and the other one the partyleader from the same guild) didnt stopped to blame me for the mess.

    After we released the two gave me tells: "noob", "learn the game", "thank you for wasting 2hours and my 50% pot" and so on.

    So my question is ... what is happening with the playerbase? Are only people still around who are not willing to read the ddowiki cause they think they know everything? Was thery a lack of communication (only voice chat, no one was willing to type)

    what do you think?

    Regards Bo
    you can usually tell early on if a group is in over it's head.

    "****, police are at the door, gotta go"

    works every time

  3. #3
    Community Member Xionanx's Avatar
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    Add them to your ignore list and move on with your life. Seriously, when I play with noobs I do two things:

    1. explain what needs to be done
    2. if they fail to listen, add them to ignore and never play with them again

    I do NOT berate them or send them tells calling them noobs, because really, whats the point in that. As such, anyone who DOES berate you and call you a noob is likely not the type of person you want to play with much.

    Now as far as VON5/6 goes, apparently people have forgotten how to actually run it.. as I have recently returned to the game after a long absence and have noticed a significant "lack of understanding" of basic practices that I was under the impression were "common knowledge" by now.. apparently I have had the wrong impression.

    From watching people now knowing what to do with the voice/ring, people who have no clue they need to lower a ladder for the rest of the party to get up the shaft, people who cant stand still on levers, people who can't seem to figure out you need to kill the pillars at the same time... etc etc etc. Its like the server is nothing but people who have never run the raid before.

    Granted we ALL make mistakes, this most recent life of mine I was running it, and its been a while since I played a wizard so out of habit I tossed a firewall on the knight... luckily it only ticked for like 2 ticks before i realized i was healing it and used gust of wind to blow it out. but still, mistakes can be made by even seasoned veterans, you deal with it and move on.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBach View Post
    Are only people still around who are not willing to read the ddowiki cause they think they know everything?
    If you have to read a wiki article to have a reasonable chance of winning, then there's a serious game design problem.

    You don't mention what their position was, just that they blamed you. How did they blame you? Did they think they knew something different than you, or did they just not know?

  5. #5
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    They blamed me in different ways:

    1.) i would heal the Knight (even i did significant more damage then healing him and was highest dps dmg toon in the Party. The pala who tried to tank him did no dmg to him)
    2.) i killed the fire dog instead of kiting like the sorc did (it looked like they didnt knew about the Knights bonuses from the dogs when they are alive)
    3.) when i tried to explained the common tactic (at Level runs) via text chat they complained that I would mess it up and should stop tell them how to do the quest.

    Happened on Thelanis few hours ago (i always thought it is a senior Server :-))

    Regards Bo
    EU player since release, US player since winter 2009.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBach View Post
    They blamed me in different ways:

    1.) i would heal the Knight (even i did significant more damage then healing him and was highest dps dmg toon in the Party. The pala who tried to tank him did no dmg to him)
    2.) i killed the fire dog instead of kiting like the sorc did (it looked like they didnt knew about the Knights bonuses from the dogs when they are alive)
    3.) when i tried to explained the common tactic (at Level runs) via text chat they complained that I would mess it up and should stop tell them how to do the quest.

    Happened on Thelanis few hours ago (i always thought it is a senior Server :-))

    Regards Bo
    kill dogs = nobody heals arach

    adamantine weapons (lvl 3 spell, lvl 6 arti)

    common knowledge and wiki said, so yes, in part is your fault

    need to send you tell? i wouldn't, in fact i don't use to squelch ppl(well i do, then remove em), ppl changes over time, who don't change just are jerks (for the squelched and for the squelcher)

  7. #7
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBach View Post
    what do you think?
    It sounds like you made one simple mistake. You joined an LFM. My experience with LFMs of late has been they are barely acceptable for quests and outright worthless for raids.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
    Toy Soldiers

  8. #8
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I have to admit, I didn't know about the dogs either. ive always been in full, or mostly full groups that just did a straight up beat down of the boss. that's the thing though. overall, people are used to killing fast and hard as possible to get the fight over with. strategizing to kill the dogs first would take too long for some groups. communication is always important, even in 6 man raid groups at level and it seems that's one thing that was lacking in your group.

    min II weapons are not ideal, but ive used them because you will do more damage than heal typically. with 8 levels of arty, you should have still picked up adamantine and could have used a junk +2 weapon or maybe you had a weapon that didn't have elements on it.

    the guy who complained about wasting 2 hours and his 50% xp pot, surprised he didn't drop when his ship buffs ran out and lost his xp shrine buff. those kind of players always irk me.

  9. #9
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    It sounds like you made one simple mistake. You joined an LFM. My experience with LFMs of late has been they are barely acceptable for quests and outright worthless for raids.
    Pretty much. Most of the good players have left the game, for one reason or another, and the majority of the remaining competent players do in-guild/private runs. So, what you get in most LFMs are newer players who are clueless about both building a decent toon and doing any quests. Thus, because they are noobs they do not realize they are noobs and blame everyone else but themselves when stuff fails/barely completes.

    And, anyway it was the dummy's fault for not popping his pot right before the quest completed. Starting a long quest like VON5 with a pot running is not a good idea.

  10. #10
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    I think too many people have some faulty memories of A day when all VoN runs were smooth and flawless.
    It never happened in my experience. I got lucky on my first two Von runs when I got hooked up with a couple old pros who were nice enough to explain step by step when I told them I was new.
    My 3rd run saw a group on the lfm just started so I hopped in to find everything in disarray. Found out I was the one that knew it the best even though it was only my 3rd run.

    Seems there are a lot of people tht get carried through the raid and never bother to learn it.

    If you as lucky you have 3-4 that know what is happening 2-3 tht are good toons that contribute but don't know the raid at all. If you are really lucky the rest pike the middle cause tht is what they were told to do. That way no one has to go and rescue/save them or wiser deal them them doing something they shouldn't.
    ----------------

    Specifically to the OPs point sounds to me like the people you ran with had been carried through the raid by overpowered TR toons thinking it was a cake walk and was frustrated that it didn't go as he experienced before. They didn't know the cautious way of completing that ther rest of us learned before power creep made it a Zergfest.
    Sorry he took it out on you but some people do that. Your crew just didn't have the power to smash and he didn't know how to recognize and adapt.
    Short of not fessing up to having the voice or the ring when asked if you have them or dropping maxed empowered firewalls and fireballs on the golem you can't be blamed for the raid failing.

  11. #11
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    It sounds like you made one simple mistake. You joined an LFM. My experience with LFMs of late has been they are barely acceptable for quests and outright worthless for raids.
    The few pugs I've joined recently all proved to be decent, and the few spots I have had to pug in my "guild runs" (sometimes up to 8 pugs in guild runs) always provided me great players and easy completions.

    Stopping pugging just because of a few bad encounters is a mistake in my opinion.
    Owy Evoker FvS / Praledric Completionist Qstaff Rogue/Monk/Druid / Laraeph DC Wizard / Laraelph AA Monk/Ranger/Pally / Gaenry Shiradi Sorc/FvS/Wiz / Reasis SWF Pally & numerous others
    The Leveller for DDO!

  12. #12
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    Stopping pugging just because of a few bad encounters is a mistake in my opinion.
    It isn't a matter of the encounters being bad. It is a matter of the average pug being completely ignorant of the challenge that Elite difficulty brings to a quest. I'm not even talking about first life necessarily as I have run into players going through TRs that are no different. If it were only occasionally I would be more inclined to pug but as it stands I feel like only one or two people are even managing to do anything useful in the party with the remaining members being carried. I feel more confident finishing a quest solo than I do in the average pug.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  13. #13
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    It sounds like the group described was an all around failure, killing the dogs and using an acid weapon not even involved. If VoN5 is taking 2 hours just to get to the Knight then things have already gone terribly, horribly wrong.

    10 deaths trying to get to the trap boxes does seem a bit excessive. Not in the sense that it is unexpected for someone's first trapper who can not make the reflex saves necessary, but rather in the sense that you perhaps should have gone in alone and practiced it until you got the positioning down before joining a group where you would be the sole trapper.

    As far as the Knight battle goes, if the party wasn't able to kill him in a timely manner then it doesn't really matter what you do. At that point it was simply a party composition failure, considering 3 well geared characters can whomp him on Elite at level, and there is no dungeon scaling in raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    I think too many people have some faulty memories of A day when all VoN runs were smooth and flawless. It never happened in my experience.
    <snip>My 3rd run saw a group on the lfm just started so I hopped in to find everything in disarray.
    PUGing VoN has always been open to issues such as standing around for half an hour playing "Check your bags everyone, someone has the voice!" This is a large part of why it was rarely in the LFM panel before Bravery Bonus started making it such a big ticket TR hit.

    The biggest reason for this is that VoN, and Titan too, requires party members to be able to listen and follow directions. The majority of DDO doesn't really require that players be proficient, as long as one or two members of the party are they should be able to manage. It is kind of a sad situation, really.....

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