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  1. #1
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    Default Heroic vs Epic content

    First of all I want to say that this point of view comes from someone who plays only one character and that stayed in the epic level range for a couple months. At the end of it, I had 2 choices : TR or stop playing. Since I didn't feel like TRing and had already pretty much all the lives I wanted behind my belt, I took a break.

    Now when I got back into the game I did 2 FoT just to get to a 20th completions bonus and immediately TRed because I know if I would have entered ANY EE quest (out of the possibly 7 or so that are worth it, even less when you play just one character) I would have just quit again. It happened more than once during my break.

    Now through this whole life I just completed I also realised that Heroic levels and Epic levels are almost 2 different games. The quests don't feel the same (you vs them power wise), heroic ones offer a much wider diversity when it comes to strategy or moment where a certain class will shine more than another. Past 20, they might be more epic when it comes to the story lines, but that's about it. And epic doesn't mean interresting. All this is bringing me to this one point that why would you (Turbine) penalize someone that still enjoys DDO by the settings that you have defined. If I want to, lets say, grind past lives until I feel like there's enought new content to justify re-doing the leveling in "Epic quests" that I just could barely (and this is personal taste) stand after only a month they were out, why can't I do that without losing something that is not even linked to it.

    TRing is a major aspect of the game since it brings longetivity by offering almost infinite (for most) replayability. Honestly, I think it's genious. But since the game has been totally split in two with the Epic levels and Epic Destiny, why not just realise it and let the players decide which part of the game they want to enjoy. If it's about selling the content, at some point or another i'm pretty sure that anyone that is truly enjoying the game will eventually want to see all it has to offer anyway. But it starts with being fair.

    Don't know if I left some room for discussion but feel free to leave your thoughts on your feelings when playing Heroic vs Epic content and do you think that it differs in term of gameplay.

    Side note on Epic TR: I unfortunately think this should wipe EDs and that in term to Epic TR, you should be leveling from the ground up the ED that you want to TR. If you don't... well that's just stupid. But... to level an ED to the max level, we did go through that didn't we? This is a tough one. Worth alot of thinking. Farming Rusted blades over and over again obviously defeats the purpose of working for your PL since you don't have to acquire the power step by step (lvling the ED) like when leveling from 1-20.

    Edit: Typos, bad grammar, etc...
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 06-15-2013 at 12:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Ring is a major aspect of the game since it brings longetivity by offering almost infinite (for most) replayability. Honestly, I think it's genious. But since the game has been totally split in two with the Epic levels and Epic Destiny, why not just realise it and let the players decide which part of the game they want to enjoy. If it's about selling the content, at some point or another i'm pretty sure that anyone that is truly enjoying the game will eventually want to see all it has to offer anyway. But it starts with being fair.
    I have been thinking about this as well, and the only thing that I can really come up with is the idea that the current development team really doesn't like 'classic' DDO. The way that they have been changing systems (and often not for the better) and entirely revamping the way that things play out as soon as you hit level 20 really does ruin the game for a lot of people. And the proposed Enhancement Trees will force a lot of that 'character sameness' down to the Heroic levels as well.

    I am sure that from their point of view this is a very good thing. A Shiradi Spammer is a Shiradi Spammer, with the distinction between Wizard, or Sorcerer, or multiclass character making very little actual difference. Similarly, in the new Enhancement Trees a Rogue Assassin is a Rogue Assassin, with the rest of your build choices not making nearly as much difference as what you chose to be your primary enhancement tree. This uniformity of characters makes it easier to develop quests for everyone, rather than having a quest that is trivially easy for a well built character, and one shotting a poorly built character every single room.

    However, this is not what DDO was built on. Narrowing characters in their focus might look good from a development point of view. But the truth is that it is driving many of the established players away from the game that they love, simply because what they have loved about the game is being removed in favor of turning it into 'generic fantasy MMO #487'.

  3. #3
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    While I personally dont plan to go high into the epic levels (Good epic items seem only to be available with huge amounts of grinding and I already got annoyed by trying to get 20 dragon scales in heroic), from what I have seen of it the balance seems to be much better there. In the heroics pretty much everyone else in a group would be more helpful as a bagged soulstone than an actual player if a WF Sorc/Arti joins up and does his area damage routine, in most quests anyway.
    Does not really work that way in epic difficulty anymore since someone drawing that much attention would die pretty quick, so grouping there is more fun in my experience.

    What I would really like to see are more quests of the challenge type like found in cannith, they can be scaled for many levels, are different in a pleasant way and you can always get something useful from the end rewards.

    I also prefer the TR path as there are so many interesting builds to try, the possibility to not just abandon your older chars but recycle them with benefits in that way is rather nice. If I can ever be bothered to farm those tokens that is.
    Sadly though, a grind strategy is much more lucrative for a company at first glance, as it usually needs much less content/work -> investment, just make something higher and harder to get than before and many people will feel the urge to aquire it, even if that means working instead of playing.
    While the direction the current owners go for is clearly the short term, cheaper grindy one, this game still has much more diversity to offer than most others I know.

  4. #4
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenMay View Post
    While I personally dont plan to go high into the epic levels (Good epic items seem only to be available with huge amounts of grinding and I already got annoyed by trying to get 20 dragon scales in heroic), from what I have seen of it the balance seems to be much better there. In the heroics pretty much everyone else in a group would be more helpful as a bagged soulstone than an actual player if a WF Sorc/Arti joins up and does his area damage routine, in most quests anyway.
    Does not really work that way in epic difficulty anymore since someone drawing that much attention would die pretty quick, so grouping there is more fun in my experience.
    Epic levels are a lazy way of balancing characters out. Instead of having characters advance in areas that they chose during the first part (levels 1-20) of their lives, everyone gets a shot at everything. This way, even gimp toons in 1-20 can be amazing in epic levels.

    It's one of the things about epic levels that bugs me, and one of the reasons I prefer to play heroic levels. The benefits of TR'ing are not worth the grind, but if you like to play heroic levels it's about the only solution other than rolling a new toon.

    Play balance in heroic levels is getting to be a problem now too, between poorly thought out classes, (bard vs WF sorc for example... one class has no offensive capability to speak of, the other can insta kill everything in the room starting at about 8th level) "creative" multi classing, (it has never made sense to me that a wizard with a level or two of rogue can trap as well as a pure rogue) bugs, (I played tonight with a guy using all his epic destinies... at 8th level, if you think playing with a shiradi sorc in epic levels makes your toon feel useless, try playing with a shiradi sorc while you're 8th level. His pet living meteor swarm had more kills than me, my pet wolf, and my summons all put together) and the fact that the masses seem to only be interested in two things; more xp and doing it faster. Add to that power creep and the vast difference in power between multi life toons with tons of gear and first lifers figuring it all out and toss it all in the pug blender and see what happens.

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