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  1. #1
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    Default How about this for “Epic Advantage”

    Much of the worry going around related to the new TR systems seems to involve loosing all that destiny xp and replacing it with “Heroic Ranks”

    What we've been told is that each destiny level lost will result in I rank earned in next life.

    What we all seem to assume is that these will be your first ranks, so that turning in 1 caped destiny would start you out at 2nd level, effectively turning in a million+ of xp for a few thousands in return.

    But what if Epic Advantage didn’t give you your first ranks; what if it gave you your next ranks, and what if this carried over from life to life. So, after TR the situation would be the same, you would start out effectively at 2nd level... but you would still advance as if you were level 1. When you have earned enough exp that you would normally be 2nd level your epic advantage is still added on top, making you effectively a 3rd level character. When you would normally be 19 you will now be 20.

    When you Epic TR again new advantage ranks are added to those you already have, putting you even further ahead in the xp grind in your next life.

    Lets compare to existing systems:

    XP Stones are very popular, but good arguments can be made against them. They effectively give you a lump sum of xp, speeding advancement by skipping whole sections of the game and potentially leaving you under equipped and unskilled in playing your newly advanced character. Big money makers, I'd love to have a few myself, but not really the best design for a game system.

    XP tomes, on the other hand are almost universally approved of. Here the xp gained over the course of a 1-20 life is on the same order of magnitude as what you get from a stone... but it is spread out, needs to be earned, and still results in players playing the game.

    The system I describe is something of a combination of the two, but I feel it would work well for the game.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferial_Flumph View Post
    What do you think?
    An interesting idea

    Though, I can imagine the coding for such could be difficult, so what about this:

    The "epic advantage" gives you "ranks on the bank." Add another dialogue option to Kruz (reincarnation trainer). At any point in your (heroic) leveling, you can go to him and choose to "claim your ranks." This would allow characters to choose when to apply their bonous ranks to skip over leveling areas they don't enjoy. Now that would be an "epic advantage."
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-14-2013 at 03:30 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    An interesting idea

    Though, I can imagine the coding for such could be difficult, so what about this:

    The "epic advantage" gives you "ranks on the bank." Add another dialogue option to Kruz (epic trainer). At any point in your (heroic) leveling, you can go to him and choose to "claim your ranks." This would allow characters to choose when to apply their bonous ranks to skip over leveling areas they don't enjoy. Now that would be an "epic advantage."
    Except then, if you had 11 locked Destinies, you'd have 11 ranks in the bank every subsequent life. So level up to 9, cash in to 20, Heroic TR and repeat. Triple Completionist becomes more about waiting for the 3 day TR timer than anything else...maxed out triple PL passives becomes the de facto norm. Everyone would be doing it, so all you have to do is join Necro I/II zerg groups and pike your way to 9.

    And, hell, with Iconics, even getting 11 locked Destinies is trivial. Start at 15, earn a couple levels as needed or jump straight to 20, and start grinding out another Destiny. You could have 11 done in the minimum 33 days.

  4. #4
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    I am not much of a fan of the original idea. I don't think that it really solves the problem, just makes the situation more complex and the content far more trivial to run. And stacking the benefits life after life would get out of hand very quickly. However:

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    The "epic advantage" gives you "ranks on the bank." Add another dialogue option to Kruz (epic trainer). At any point in your (heroic) leveling, you can go to him and choose to "claim your ranks." This would allow characters to choose when to apply their bonous ranks to skip over leveling areas they don't enjoy. Now that would be an "epic advantage."
    This one I think would be great. Possibly change them from 'ranks' to simply a bundle of XP, so that the reward is uniform no matter when you choose to take them.

    Also, a bit nit picky, but Kruz is the Reincarnation NPC. The Fatespinner is the epic level trainer.


    My own suggestion that is buried in the announcement thread and likely never read was to make the 'Epic Advantage' into an XP boost that scales the XP that you receive for the next life just like an XP Potion does. This way it has the intended effect of rewarding lost XP with new XP, and it does so over the entire course of your character's next life rather than front loading it all. But if Perma's suggestion is more easily implemented it seems to solve the same problems just as well.

  5. #5
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Edit: Oops, hasty reading fail, I you saw what was here before, ignor that.


    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Except then, if you had 11 locked Destinies, you'd have 11 ranks in the bank every subsequent life. So level up to 9, cash in to 20, Heroic TR and repeat. Triple Completionist becomes more about waiting for the 3 day TR timer than anything else...maxed out triple PL passives becomes the de facto norm. Everyone would be doing it, so all you have to do is join Necro I/II zerg groups and pike your way to 9.

    And, hell, with Iconics, even getting 11 locked Destinies is trivial. Start at 15, earn a couple levels as needed or jump straight to 20, and start grinding out another Destiny. You could have 11 done in the minimum 33 days.
    In order to earn the locked in 11 destanies, you would've had to earn your way up to 28 11 times. Granted, each successive life from the 2nd to the 11th would've been a little quicker, but as the ranks would only apply to heroic leveling, they wouldn't have expedited the 20 - 28 part all.

    IMO you will have earned the short cut to (multi) completionist. Yah, a regular (1x each) completionist would only have 2 lives left + their final life, so that would be fairly brief. For the full triple, you're looking at 84 days* minimum before starting your "final life." So thats about 3 months* after leveling to 28 eleven times. And that's assuming you have the play time available to level from 1-9 in 3 days flat, repeatedly with no down time in-between.

    *3x completionist = 39 lives (13 classes x3), assuming Iconic past lives don't figure in to completionist status.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-14-2013 at 04:01 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  6. #6
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    … And I find I agree with the people disagreeing with my original idea, at least in part.

    As I see it we are trying to do 2 things, reward players for the accomplishment of an epic tr, and compensate them in some way for the lost xp.

    At the same time we don't want to trivialize the early game (or skip over it all together)

    Both my original “ranks added on top” and PermaBanned's “Ranks on the bank” would result in spiking over levels to one extent or another.

    So what if we got 2 rewards: For each destiny locked 1 epic advantage rank added on top as I described for all future lives, and an xp % bonus in the next life only based on the amount of total epic destiny xp lost with the tr.

    With 11 destines at this time, and I assume new ones added slowly, for the foreseeable future this would only be about 2 levels worth of free ranks. This would mean starting at 3rd level at most, still within bravery bonus range of level 1 quests so that none of the game would need to be skipped over. This nevertheless results in a nice reduction in the grind, leveling up 1 level at a time but capping at what would normally be the xp for 17-18th level. If each destiny was somehow “locked” 3 times in the way past life feats stack 3 times this would be 13-14th level.

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