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  1. #1
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    Default FvS Raid / EE healer

    Greetings

    I am considering reconfiguring my presently 20 FvS into a 18 FvS / 2 Pal for max saves. I expect to still easily solo EH quests so my main concern is playing the healer in full groups on harder EE quests and in (often shortmanned) raids.

    I am considering the following:
    - Dump STR, WIS, DEX and INT, Medium CON, High CHA (for SP and saves)
    - Quick, Emp Heal, Emp, Max, Tough, Epic Tough, MT, IMT, EMT and Enlarge. The latter might be untraditional but I find it very valuable when being the only healer on a raid (CitW or in particular FoT).
    - EA as main destiny (Renewal, Avenging Light, Rebuke (great on raids), Divine Wrath, +10% SP, CHA etc).
    - Twists when doing easy stuff or soloing - definitely Energy Burst but uncertain what else I will be taking.

    Twist when doing harder stuff is where I am less certain.
    - +6 fort save and nofail on a 1 is nice if there are serious fort save effects.
    - +6 will save and nofail on a 1 is extremely nice if there are serios will save effects - mostly holds, dances and stuns.
    - +40% exceptional fortification is great against melee damage. I wish I could cover that in some other way.
    - Cocoon is superb for healing others and oneself.
    - Energy Sheath with +50% energy absorb is great if a particular type of elemental damage is the main concern.
    That no less than 5 twists though. Maybe if I was paying more attention I would know which quests/raids to take which of those, hmm.

    Any advice, ideas or suggestions are most welcome.

  2. #2
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    Didn't you ask the same thing a while ago ? I shouldn't remind you of pally option in that FoT
    Essentially trading ~ 200 sp, true res and energy drain for 17+saves.
    Mine hjealzorgimp has the same feats except enlarge, took Force of personality which is necesssary if you go full retard saves. Certainly don't need enlarge for Citw ( enlarge wouldn't help when someone is blocked, cocoon is better ) and well, it's very rare to be the only hjealer in FoT ( besides, if people are playing dumb, enlarge wouldn't help either, cocoon again ). But you can drop epic toughness for that of course, which I think is worth more.

    I have no EE FoT experience though.

    Twists are combination of cocoon, Shiradi spring+that one more use Fey something, brace, sheath,magister dodge, lithe ...depending on stuff you do.

    Wil/fort is always 65+. reflex depends on twists.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Didn't you ask the same thing a while ago ? I shouldn't remind you of pally option in that FoT
    Essentially trading ~ 200 sp, true res and energy drain for 17+saves.
    Mine hjealzorgimp has the same feats except enlarge, took Force of personality which is necesssary if you go full retard saves. Certainly don't need enlarge for Citw ( enlarge wouldn't help when someone is blocked, cocoon is better ) and well, it's very rare to be the only hjealer in FoT ( besides, if people are playing dumb, enlarge wouldn't help either, cocoon again ). But you can drop epic toughness for that of course, which I think is worth more.

    I have no EE FoT experience though.

    Twists are combination of cocoon, Shiradi spring+that one more use Fey something, brace, sheath,magister dodge, lithe ...depending on stuff you do.

    Wil/fort is always 65+. reflex depends on twists.
    I have asked questions regarding 18 FvS / 2 Pally before thats true - though not quite the questions posted here unless my Alzheimers has gotten worse

    I am quite often the only healer in EH FoT when my small guild raids. Usually its 7-8 people with me the sole healer. So thats common for me though not so in pugs.

    You never use the twists that means even a 1 isnt a fail on will or fort saves to completely avoid being caught in a hold/stun/whatever?

    Would you mind posting your build and gear? I am curious

  4. #4
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    Regarding saves, certainly don't know exact numbers for no fail on 1 EVERYWHERE, gotta ask someone else But 65+ will/fort, 50-68 reflex is okay I guess.
    I leveled her as classic wisdom evoker then free LRed and took 2 pally as 19 and 20.
    11+3
    10+2
    18+3 I definitely put 1 or 2 points into con for etoughness
    9+3
    8+4
    22+4
    Gear is kinda "welfare" :P
    Head : 3 charisma with GL and +1 con
    Goggles : conc opp hp
    Armour : Cavalry with heavy fort
    Bracers : 20 amp/superior parry
    Left ring : LGA with 160 sp , deathblock of 33 % electric absorb
    Boots : hard Threads
    Gloves : PDK
    Right ring : 25% fort nat armour 6 / charisma 8 protect 6
    Belt : 8 con 13 balance / 2 Planar girds / invis clickie
    Cloak : char 7 resist 7 / vital resist 7 / jeweled cloak
    Trinket : EE Fetish / 8 charisma
    Neck : War wizard turn in, some kind of GS will go here

    Skiver/EE bulwark or Twilight, it's a mess but kinda works, basically needs only high hp, high saves, some exc fort, max devo and radiance. Didn't really think about augments that much, it's a first life toon which I don't pay much attention to Guess I could farm another EE cloak to wear it full time and slot it, or get blue plate or something ... or Balizarde or that longsword noone ever wants .
    But that would mean maybe 20 hp or 1-2 saves or major vs greater lore difference, can't be arsed to rejig gear completely.

    You get ~ 800 hp/4k sp , godly saves , you are ready to hjeal those minion..erm party members to victory ! Even the terrible ones.
    Last edited by Veles; 06-14-2013 at 10:52 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Tell the noobs to BYOH. Then you don't have to play a gimp build!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Tell the noobs to BYOH. Then you don't have to play a gimp build!
    I will bite. What kind of FvS build would you make then?

    I have tried an evoker build with maxed wisdom including a +5 wis tome. The wis dumped build using Avenging Light+Divine Wrath+Energy burst is stronger offensively and defensively both, has more mana and uses less mana to accomplice things so pots are hardly ever needed and I often skip shrines hence running faster - so if an evoker is your suggestion then please elaborate because in my experience thats an inferior build right now. Even more so as Implosion is bugged atm.

    If your suggestion is to play another class entirely then I will pass - I like being a FvS and even like healing as well when needed.

  7. #7
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    I will bite. What kind of FvS build would you make then?

    I have tried an evoker build with maxed wisdom including a +5 wis tome. The wis dumped build using Avenging Light+Divine Wrath+Energy burst is stronger offensively and defensively both, has more mana and uses less mana to accomplice things so pots are hardly ever needed and I often skip shrines hence running faster - so if an evoker is your suggestion then please elaborate because in my experience thats an inferior build right now. Even more so as Implosion is bugged atm.

    If your suggestion is to play another class entirely then I will pass - I like being a FvS and even like healing as well when needed.
    I would play a FvS splashed with 16 levels of arti, 2 levels of monk and 2 levels of ranger.

  8. #8
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Okay, but seriously if you're dead set on being a FvS, it's not terrible. 17 levels is obviously required for wings, but beyond that level 9 spells are pretty worthless. 17 FvS/2 paladin (or ranger)/1 X in FotW or LD. X can be any number of solid splashes, including ranger, monk, fighter or even barbarian. There is no point in playing a weak charisma based caster when your DPS is literally like 1/3 of a proper build.

    On the other hand, if you're willing to give up wings you could try 16 cleric/2 monk/2 ranger (or paladin), which is probably slightly more defensish and blobby. Play it like a fleshy juggernaut.
    Last edited by AtomicMew; 06-15-2013 at 05:18 AM.

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    Enjoy playing your juggernaut. I am uncertain why you figured those would be relevant in a thread about FvS healers but enjoy just the same.

  10. #10
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Because playing a divine class is gimp. Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but that's the objective truth right now. Even still, there are far better ways to play a healer class than that ridiculous build in the OP and I made two obvious suggestions.

    Bother to read my post.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Because playing a divine class is gimp. Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but that's the objective truth right now. Even still, there are far better ways to play a healer class than that ridiculous build in the OP and I made two obvious suggestions.

    Bother to read my post.
    I dont question that a juggernaut, monkcher or shiradi caster is better damage than a cha based FvS caster. Thats expected and how it should be. If its overall 3 times as much I cannot say but its possible. For burst its definitely more than 3x though that I am certain of with furyshot.

    Based on my experience I have to question though if you have tried playing the build I present. Sure, going LD or FotW melee FvS might be better dps though I question just how much more - but it sure also would be worse saves than 18 FvS + 2 Pal cha based and much less SP. Since this thead was about being a healer as well - not just soloing in a group or raid - that does strike me as odd. Hence I dont consider your suggestions obvious at all.

    I guess your reply will be not to heal others since thats "gimp" and you may be correct but thats not my kind of game.

  12. #12
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    As for the split the question that only you can answer is do you feel the Extra Saves justify the Loss of 1 Level 8 and 2 Level 9 Spells worth it.

    Do you feel the weakness of your previous builds was in making saves?

    Next don't listen to the Flavor of the Month Crowd too much, I say this because when the next flavor comes (and not from a FotMC member) they will move on to defend that and say how much the other flavor isn't worth it.

    There are many diverse players out their succeeding with builds many would balk at.

    ==================================
    You have a unique experience here playing both as a DC caster and as a Nuke (with light). You have already got a grasp of the potentials of the FvS. Trust you gut, the worst case is a LR+2 or even a TR.

  13. #13
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    As for the split the question that only you can answer is do you feel the Extra Saves justify the Loss of 1 Level 8 and 2 Level 9 Spells worth it.

    Do you feel the weakness of your previous builds was in making saves?

    Next don't listen to the Flavor of the Month Crowd too much, I say this because when the next flavor comes (and not from a FotMC member) they will move on to defend that and say how much the other flavor isn't worth it.

    There are many diverse players out their succeeding with builds many would balk at.

    ==================================
    You have a unique experience here playing both as a DC caster and as a Nuke (with light). You have already got a grasp of the potentials of the FvS. Trust you gut, the worst case is a LR+2 or even a TR.
    When the next FOTM comes out, my shiradi caster and monkcher will still be better than your CHA based divine. Having an even more powerful build doesn't mean your divine is suddenly better than past FOTMs. It just means it's even that much more behind relevant end game builds.

    There are actually very few successful builds, but then again our definitions may be a bit different. If you think simply completing any old EE is "successful" I'll just have to disagree. Personally, my definition of "successful" is a build that is not significantly outclassed by any other build. A successful build should be in the 95th percentile of power. Therefore, it's a bit axiomatic that most builds cannot be successful, by definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    I dont question that a juggernaut, monkcher or shiradi caster is better damage than a cha based FvS caster. Thats expected and how it should be. If its overall 3 times as much I cannot say but its possible. For burst its definitely more than 3x though that I am certain of with furyshot.

    Based on my experience I have to question though if you have tried playing the build I present. Sure, going LD or FotW melee FvS might be better dps though I question just how much more - but it sure also would be worse saves than 18 FvS + 2 Pal cha based and much less SP. Since this thead was about being a healer as well - not just soloing in a group or raid - that does strike me as odd. Hence I dont consider your suggestions obvious at all.

    I guess your reply will be not to heal others since thats "gimp" and you may be correct but thats not my kind of game.
    I understand the value of healing, especially in raids where not everyone one is necessarily self sufficient. However, it's been proven that a group of self sufficient toons can easily shortman the hardest raids in the game. In an ideal situation, there's really no room for a healer type build because being self sufficient cost very little in terms of giving up DPS to be able to self heal, thanks to E.D's.

    Perhaps in the future if traditional DPS classes like barbarian or fighter gain significant DPS features this will change, but given the enhancement previews I sincerely doubt it.

  14. #14
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    I believe the difference here is that my game involves a semi-casual small guild where we raid with 4-8 people of which only a few have multiple past lives, maxed EDs and optimal gear. This ups the relative value of healing - not least because I am usually the only healer.

    On the other if I was raiding with 12 multi-TR, max ED, max geared people then healing might be of little value.

    So, I reckon its a case of different envirronments promoting different values.

    At any rate - thanks for the discussion to all that chimed in. When I find the time I will probably grab an alignment change and a +3 LR to try the pally splash to see if the lost SP, spells and capstone is more than offset by the huge boost to saves. Sometimes I simply have more time to post on the forum than actually play and thus its easier to dabate changes to a build than to actually try out the change

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Greetings

    I am considering reconfiguring my presently 20 FvS into a 18 FvS / 2 Pal for max saves. I expect to still easily solo EH quests so my main concern is playing the healer in full groups on harder EE quests and in (often shortmanned) raids.

    I am considering the following:
    - Dump STR, WIS, DEX and INT, Medium CON, High CHA (for SP and saves)
    - Quick, Emp Heal, Emp, Max, Tough, Epic Tough, MT, IMT, EMT and Enlarge. The latter might be untraditional but I find it very valuable when being the only healer on a raid (CitW or in particular FoT).
    - EA as main destiny (Renewal, Avenging Light, Rebuke (great on raids), Divine Wrath, +10% SP, CHA etc).
    - Twists when doing easy stuff or soloing - definitely Energy Burst but uncertain what else I will be taking.

    Twist when doing harder stuff is where I am less certain.
    - +6 fort save and nofail on a 1 is nice if there are serious fort save effects.
    - +6 will save and nofail on a 1 is extremely nice if there are serios will save effects - mostly holds, dances and stuns.
    - +40% exceptional fortification is great against melee damage. I wish I could cover that in some other way.
    - Cocoon is superb for healing others and oneself.
    - Energy Sheath with +50% energy absorb is great if a particular type of elemental damage is the main concern.
    That no less than 5 twists though. Maybe if I was paying more attention I would know which quests/raids to take which of those, hmm.

    Any advice, ideas or suggestions are most welcome.
    This is almost exactly the build I'm playing on Guhennyr on Thelanis.
    With the difference that Guhennyr is meant to be a 32 point secondary toon never to be TR'd.
    I went 18 CON, 18+6 CHA, rest 8, human 18/2. I also took the dragonmarks of finding to bless chests instead of the mental toughnesses, you might do the same if you find that your sp pool is more than enough. I have over 3800 sp and I hardly drink a pot ever, so no need for the MT feats right now, will take them after the expansion since dragonmarks will only cost one feat then. 7 knocks a rest is handy too in VoN5 and other places.
    Many people will say that chest blessing is useless, but I already found all my +4 tomes for Guhennyr and my main Cairnadal using chest bless, and many more spawned for those who allowed me to bless their chests. Mileages may vary, but I found those feats to be more valuable than 500 sp to me.
    Whatever your standing about dragonmarks, I took enlarge after my second FoT and would never come back. It's very handy to heal far away toons, and keep cocoon for emergency. I basically spam enlarged & empowered healing renewals and enlarged & empowered & maximized avenging lights, enlarge is really good on both, and it's free.
    As you said, I feel evoker build being inferior to max CON/CHA build, even more so if the toon is a first lifer without the required DCs and spell pen.
    As a bonus, paladin levels also give heavy armor proficiency. White dragonplate is sexy and gives a good chunk of PRR. I often use divine power to increase it further, -25% incoming physical damage is good for survivability.

    I keep the following as twists:
    - Energy Burst Fire is obvious
    - Rejuvenating Cocoon, works at very high distance and across barriers, very handy in emergencies, which tend to happen a lot. I keep this all the time.
    - Lithe +6 to AC and Reflex Save isn't bad for me, since my AC is about 90 it actually works sometimes, that's yet another layer of protection.
    - Energy Sheathe Electric instead of Lithe when I run FoT and Tor.
    - Energy Absorption instead of Energy Burst Fire when I run FoT, Tor and ToD. It's handy to throw at the reaver/shadow tank also, sometimes that means myself.
    Last edited by Nabuchadnezzar83; 06-17-2013 at 07:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Greetings

    I am considering reconfiguring my presently 20 FvS into a 18 FvS / 2 Pal for max saves. I expect to still easily solo EH quests so my main concern is playing the healer in full groups on harder EE quests and in (often shortmanned) raids.

    ~snip~

    Any advice, ideas or suggestions are most welcome.
    Have you considered the option of /2 monk and adding melee damage to your healbotting?

    I'm currently enjoying my 2nd life melee healbot. Think the starting stats were 16/14/14/8/16/10 with +3s across the board, all lvlups into STR.
    Feats: Emp, Max, Quicken, MT, IMT, EMT, PA, Stunning fist, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC Bludgeon, Tuffness

    It stands with 3,9k SP; ~700HP, saves in the mid 40's unbuffed. Usual stunning fist DC is 56, 62 if I'm the only CCer in GMoF. Not a no-fail but good enough for group play.

    Usually running in Primal with Sense Weakness, extra SP/Legendary Tactics/Primal Scream/Lithe twisted in.

    I found that Perma Blur, Incorp and Dodge are much better damage mitigation than AC can ever be and in cases where saves might fail me PLIS does the job more than well (FoT).
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    But then, 56 stun doesn't work as CC in GH/u16 reliably, with low prr isn't it too risky to even go into melee ? Not mentioning wraps damage on non stunned must be anemic.
    Mid 40s saves aren't enough either, so evasion is kinda redundant too.

    It's an option ( it could work with pefect gear/lives probably ), just str level ups and no room for renewal seems questionable to me. I believe wis level ups would be much better.

    Anyway my fvsgimphjealzor to help you decide to ( or not :P) LR. That's with sheath, coccoon, and Shiradi spring as twists on log off. No GH or brace, so saves are 6 higher. There's at least one more 18/2 on Ghallanda.

    Btw Atomic, so you essentially saying when I want to play fvs and see a "normal, not bad, not excellent" group for let's say EE Detour or Trial or Cry looking for fvs/clr, I should relog and bring my monkcher and solo it for them ?
    I am sure they would totally have fun !

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    Good debate. What do you guys do wrt exceptional fortification? Just slot a +25% somewhere or twist in the +40% or both?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I understand the value of healing, especially in raids where not everyone one is necessarily self sufficient. However, it's been proven that a group of self sufficient toons can easily shortman the hardest raids in the game. In an ideal situation, there's really no room for a healer type build because being self sufficient cost very little in terms of giving up DPS to be able to self heal, thanks to E.D's.
    I find the epic irony in the above paragraph very amusing. For the longest time, BYOH was stigmatized as intentionally gimping a character. Eventually, it was shown and accepted that in some quests, a team of self-sufficient toons working together could accomplish the task faster. Now we have reached the point where a very credible source is stating that this also extends to raids.... and quite frankly, I don't see a strong counter argument based on game mechanics.

    The social arguments, I'll sum up with the following: There are now enough BYOH players that choosing to exclude them is just as exclusionary as a byoh player excluding a non-self-sufficient toon.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    I am considering the following:
    - Dump STR, WIS, DEX and INT, Medium CON, High CHA (for SP and saves)
    - Quick, Emp Heal, Emp, Max, Tough, Epic Tough, MT, IMT, EMT and Enlarge.
    Not my kind of build, but if that's what you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    - +40% exceptional fortification is great against melee damage. I wish I could cover that in some other way.
    Leaves of the Forest. It's Medium, so FvS are proficient, and comes with 150% Fort. Also +3 Insightful Con (which you will probably appreciate) and +3 Insightful Wis (which I love, but your build likely doesn't care about). There's one less twist.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    - Cocoon is superb for healing others and oneself.
    You're a FvS, in EA, and you're worried about twisting in more healing? I don't see a need. I'd dump this.

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