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  1. #1
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default Hey Turbine, here's why you [I]almost[/I] had a great idea:

    Edit: Rofl so I can't place italics in the title field, or edit the title field... good one... (facepalm)

    The truth is, this Epic TR system could have been a fabulous plan. I mean that, I really do.

    Unfortunately, for it to have been awesome you would've had to implement it ~ a year ago, around the same time you introduced epic destanies. Instead, you sold them (destanies) to us for a year, including the direct statement that destiny xp/levels would survive the TR process.

    Now, you've simply changed your mind and said "oh yah, about that destiny surviving the TR process... Not gonna happen anymore, unless you start over. If you've already purchased them, and crafted your toons around that idea, well... Sucks to be you."

    You see I, like many others I know, have spent the last year TRing one of my favorite characters. Leveling one destiny per life, so that when I was done I would have a completionist (with a few extra lives for things like maxed spell pen & DCs) with all destanies done and locked in. The whole point of this effort was so that when I was "done" the toon would only take minor up keep in order to keep up with power creep and stay at the top of her game. A new destiny comes out? Great, level that. A new class comes along? No biggie, just TR once to get the new past life (or three times if the stacking feat was really beneficial) and once more back to her main self.

    Now?

    Now, to achieve the same results, I will need to stop playing that (almost done) toon until this new system is implemented, TR again through more heroic lives than I could possibly get a benefit from (already having almost all the x3s that I wanted) just to get the destanies "locked in" so that they will survive the little bit of TRing I would have/want to do as new classes are eventually introduced.

    Oh, not to mention that I would be doing this all going on faith that you won't at some point in the future arbitrarily make a new decision that again invalidates the time and effort I put in towards my goal. In terms of real world time, it has taken me almost a year to make the progress I have. It will take at least 6 months to catch back up to where I'm at now, with still a few months left to go to finish the project; and NO! I will not be purchasing your short cuts (xp pots/Ottos boxes etc) to mitigate this massive pita you have foisted upon me! I just might, however, be passing my entertainment time and money to a new game company. If I have to start over, it may as well be with someone who hasn't given me the shaft.


    •To those who are going to come and say "if you see it as an unfun grind you shouldn't be doing it:"
    The journey has been fun. However I was looking forward to having a top notch toon built for running the hardest content & staying at "end game" as the level cap and such increased. Now I can't do that, at least not anytime in the near future. I was looking forward to starting on my next project. The first was a cleric, the next was a monk. Now I'm faced with a choice: abandon my cleric to start on my monk, or put off the monk indefinitely in order to eventually achieve what I was so close to having achieved already. That is not a fun choice to make.

    •To those who are going to come and say "none of all that is necessary for a character to be playable:"
    I've got a garage full of hondas, this was going to be my first Ferrari. So yah, it may not be needed, but it was definitely wanted!
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-14-2013 at 07:02 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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  3. #3
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with the OP on this one. Had it been this way from the start, no problem. However, we were sold a product (epic destinies) that has worked a specific way for a year. Taking that away now is not cool. It's not right. In the case of heroic TR, it's not justified or necessary. If it wasn't broken for the past year, why the change now? If you're going to nerf heroic TR this hard, I want a well thought out reason for it. Not just "because we say so". I say this based on the information we have currently. Things could change of course.

    Epic TR is a different story. It's a new thing. I'd discuss that separately. Forcing a destiny wipe on heroic TR serves no purpose other than to frustrate and annoy customers. It drives people away from TR'ing and outright destroys builds who will be eventually put into a situations where they either TR (and suck up the destiny wipe) or play a broken character (due to mechanical changes beyond their control)

    Turbine, do the right thing and leave heroic TR as it is, with no destiny wipe. Do not change a core game mechanic that has been working and balanced for a year now.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  4. #4
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    PermaBanned, you hit the nail on the head. The proposed change to Epic Destiny xp retention makes the game not fun to play for a lot of people. Add to that how the proposal is causing people to feel angry, frustrated, and deceived by Turbine, and it's game-breaking move for a lot of people. Most of those people will leave, taking money with them. Many other people will see what is happening and avoid playing DDO, spending their gaming money at other companies.

    I hope Producer Glin is paying attention to what his proposed ED xp removal system will do to player confidence, player satisfaction, and overall player fun in the game of DDO. If not, I believe he'll bull through the changes he wants, and DDO will suffer both loss of fun and loss of income.
    There is no free lunch.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I want a well thought out reason for it. Not just "because we say so".
    Well... the grind will be increased by an order of magnitude, so you'll need to spend ten times as much in the game, meaning you'll have more opportunities to purchase consumables and random items, and you'll have way more incentive to purchase p2w shortcuts.
    Also, the hearts of wood available for free in game will be next to useless so you'll have to buy the good ones in store.

  6. #6
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Well... the grind will be increased by an order of magnitude, so you'll need to spend ten times as much in the game, meaning you'll have more opportunities to purchase consumables and random items, and you'll have way more incentive to purchase p2w shortcuts.
    Also, the hearts of wood available for free in game will be next to useless so you'll have to buy the good ones in store.
    Yup. It is yet another Turbine invention of "content" without actually providing content that players want and would pay for.
    Hilarious Princess....Sorry your life is so medicore after all this time..Lol, you are scared of a farmer? with a tractor....?

  7. #7
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    . It will take at least 6 months to catch back up to where I'm at now, with still a few months left to go to finish the project; and NO! I will not be purchasing your short cuts (xp pots/Ottos boxes etc) to mitigate this massive pita you have foisted upon me! I just might, however, be passing my entertainment time and money to a new game company. If I have to start over, it may as well be with someone who hasn't given me the shaft.
    I am in substantially the same position, and have similar thoughts and feelings.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  8. #8
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Unfortunately, for it to have been awesome you would've had to implement it ~ a year ago, around the same time you introduced epic destanies. Instead, you sold them (destanies) to us for a year, including the direct statement that destiny xp/levels would survive the TR process.

    Now, you've simply changed your mind and said "oh yah, about that destiny surviving the TR process... Not gonna happen anymore, unless you start over. If you've already purchased them, and crafted your toons around that idea, well... Sucks to be you."

    As I was told when they bent he VIPs over the furniture with their new definition of "content":

    1) Turbine has to make money. The game must survive. This is Capitalism (and no, this is not "capitalism"). Suck it up.

    2) You have an entitlement mentality. You've paid for something based on what Turbine sold you - it is wrong to think you should be entitled to get what you paid for. Life sucks, wear a helmet.

    3) It saya in the EULA / ToS / whatever that Turbine can change what you get, when you get it, regardless of how much you pay, and how often. You didn't read it close enough. Stop being a nancy-boy.

    I mean, I sorta agree with your position. However, when I raised a similar stink about how an "expansion" was magically not "content," these are the responses I got. And I also thing they apply to your current situation as well.


    People here feed a monster, they shouldn't be surprised when it turns and bites off the hand that feeds it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    As I was told when they bent he VIPs over the furniture with their new definition of "content":

    1) Turbine has to make money. The game must survive. This is Capitalism (and no, this is not "capitalism"). Suck it up.

    2) You have an entitlement mentality. You've paid for something based on what Turbine sold you - it is wrong to think you should be entitled to get what you paid for. Life sucks, wear a helmet.

    3) It saya in the EULA / ToS / whatever that Turbine can change what you get, when you get it, regardless of how much you pay, and how often. You didn't read it close enough. Stop being a nancy-boy.

    I mean, I sorta agree with your position. However, when I raised a similar stink about how an "expansion" was magically not "content," these are the responses I got. And I also thing they apply to your current situation as well.


    People here feed a monster, they shouldn't be surprised when it turns and bites off the hand that feeds it.
    While I was quite angry about VIPs paying for the "expansion", it's not the same situation. No shinies were taken away from us as VIPs, we just had to pay for new ones.

    In this case a year's in game effort could be erased.

  10. #10
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    Default now, what if...

    So, i´m also really disapointed with the new TR system, but some nice ideas appeared at the original post from that Dev.

    Like when someone sugested that we retain the fate points. That would be great, but i´d go even further, and add a new twist slot for every TR. I think that would be most appealing for the torched mob of furious players. Of course, a limit of twists should be advisable or someone might end with all ED´s active...

    Anyway, just my 2 cents.

  11. #11
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    The pessimist in me sees this as all a smoke screen, planned to serve as a lightning rod they never plan to use, so when they get rid of it they look like they're paying attention to customers and can push through other bad decisions without people caring as much.

    I'm in a different situation than the OP. I farmed a couple of destinies (2.5 of them or so) with the intention of doing a little bit at the end of each life. I TR because I enjoy it more than the endgame, but at each endgame I'm not going to refarm all of the EDs I worked on already purely so I can have them for a week or so. I don't know this would drive me from the game, but it certainly adds one more reason to not log in as much.

  12. #12
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    Default I want to relate a GREAT customer service story

    I have Delta faucets in my house that I installed in 1999. Do I know the model? No.

    But I can turn a screw.

    I am replacing some leaky faucet handles when I encounter a problem with an allen screw that locks the handle so you can turn the water on. The screw had corroded over 14 years of use and I stripped that little screw so I cannot get it out. Actually, I did it to two faucet handles. Which means the faucet handle is still on.

    I call Delta and relate my story. The customer service person understands my problem, has me look on the internet for the model and we agree on the type I have.

    He says I can drill out the screw and he will send me a replacement kit. I ask him how much is this going to cost me?

    He says, "Nothing. Delta is a lifetime warranty as you long as you are the original owner." Free shipping also. He also is sending me two faucet kits and two handle kits because I have another one that is stripped.

    I will be buying Delta faucets again based on that great customer service and honoring of their warranty and guarantee.

    Read into that what you will. BTW, I spent less on the Delta faucets than I have on DDO.
    Recipemaker Guild: Top Chef School of Recipes

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  13. #13
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    To those who are going to come and say "none of all that is necessary for a character to be playable:"
    I've got a garage full of hondas, this was going to be my first Ferrari. So yah, it may not be needed, but it was definitely wanted!
    To those who missed this in the "wall of text" I decided to highlight it

    Thanks for making me laugh. I am too casual of a player to do what you are doing/have done but the analogy is golden...

    I love my Honda too but a Ferrari (or some other exotic car) would be awesome to own.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomooprincess View Post
    I have Delta faucets in my house that I installed in 1999. Do I know the model? No.

    But I can turn a screw.

    I am replacing some leaky faucet handles when I encounter a problem with an allen screw that locks the handle so you can turn the water on. The screw had corroded over 14 years of use and I stripped that little screw so I cannot get it out. Actually, I did it to two faucet handles. Which means the faucet handle is still on.

    I call Delta and relate my story. The customer service person understands my problem, has me look on the internet for the model and we agree on the type I have.

    He says I can drill out the screw and he will send me a replacement kit. I ask him how much is this going to cost me?

    He says, "Nothing. Delta is a lifetime warranty as you long as you are the original owner." Free shipping also. He also is sending me two faucet kits and two handle kits because I have another one that is stripped.

    I will be buying Delta faucets again based on that great customer service and honoring of their warranty and guarantee.

    Read into that what you will. BTW, I spent less on the Delta faucets than I have on DDO.
    This is what good customer service looks like.
    This is what good faith looks like.

    Turbine has forgotten these things.

    Yes. We're all aware of what Capitalism is.
    We're all aware that Turbine exists to make money.
    But it seems to me like Turbine's good sense, care for their customers, and sense of good faith went out the window the day that "F2P" crossed their minds.

    We've stopped being customers in their eyes, we stopped being seen as people, and we've become teats for them to milk as dry as they can.

    This change is just another sign of that.
    Tessa* of Ghallanda
    “If you do not help me," Tessa said to Jem, "I swear, I will change into you, and I will lift him myself. And then everyone here will see what you look like in a dress." She fixed him with a look. "Do you understand?”



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    While I was quite angry about VIPs paying for the "expansion", it's not the same situation. No shinies were taken away from us as VIPs, we just had to pay for new ones.

    In this case a year's in game effort could be erased.
    Wrong, previously VIP meant pay monthly, get all content, something was indeed taken away. Wrong is wrong and both of these are that.

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