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  1. #21
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    It’s really simple.

    Turbine could invest money into the game and make content for us to run to keep our attention for a while. They don’t believe in putting money back in the game so we go to number two.

    Did you think U17, U18, U19, the four new iconics, and the enhancement pass were developed by Keebler elves or something? Turbine didn't spend any money to make those? LOL! Seriously, do you even read what you post?

  2. #22
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeGirl View Post
    Frankly, since ED's were introduced I felt that keeping the ED xp after TR was not plausible.
    A new life starts at 0 xp. It never made any sense to me why "normal" xp and ED xp should be handled in different ways.

    Having a TR keep ED xp was a terrible mistake in the first place in my opinion. It should never have been that way. It was a terrible design mistake.

    However, since a lot of players were happily farming away to max out all their EDs, I understand they'd feel cheated by Turbine on going back from their explicit statement that ED xp will persist through TR. Technically (not legally) it's like a breach of contract.

    The lesson learned is: It's hard to correct something that was broken from the start after so many players have embraced the brokenness and relied on it staying broken.

    I think there's no way for Turbine to make this right anymore. There is no solution.
    Some really good points. I don't agree with the breach of contract point of view, but I agree a lot of people are acting like it is a breach of contract.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Losing all destinies seems like way too much to me... but losing just one destiny seems way too little to me.... that's only 2 million xp; something you will easily get back when leveling back to 28.
    Surplus ED XP notwithstanding:

    You are not losing the 1.9M XP for the one bonded destiny. You are losing the remaining XP it takes you to get to level 28.

    Whichever level you restart at, this is plenty of XP to give up for a PL feat. imho
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  4. #24
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    I just capped my first ED and am putting that alt in a holding pattern until this gets resolved. Not worth starting a 2nd ED just to get nerrfed into oblivion.

  5. #25
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Did you think U17, U18, U19, the four new iconics, and the enhancement pass were developed by Keebler elves or something? Turbine didn't spend any money to make those? LOL! Seriously, do you even read what you post?
    They were developed by a skeliton crew of folks that regardless of how passionate and dedicated they are, cant turn out the quality of the past due to the constraints and deadlines put on them by those who make the decisions nowdays. Smaller workforce, shorter deadlines, overlapped dev schedules.

    Iconics are mostly new art. The classes are 99.9% the same.

    they are now in a situation where the new content can be handedly beaten at a speed that cant be remotely matched by how fast they can push out the new content. Larger dead times in the middle of shorter times with fuller population. Instead of the replay value being extended by new content, they are attempting to extend it by tethering character power to repeated grind of epic XP, something they told us would stay as is in the past.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #26
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Some really good points. I don't agree with the breach of contract point of view, but I agree a lot of people are acting like it is a breach of contract.
    I don't feel so much like it's a breach of contract.

    It's more akin to the two of us making a verbal deal that if you buy my stereo, you get my colloction of CDs with it. Then a year later I come over, take all but one of the CDs, and let you know that every so often I'll give them back, one at a time...

    No contract so not illegal, but still not right; and deffinately the kind of thing that can ruin a friendship.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-15-2013 at 02:08 AM.
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  7. #27
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    something i haven't seen anyone mentioning... what if that proposed ed exp wipe upon heroic tr is their easiest, cheapest (and only) way to deal with the newest "fight club bug" with the twists? anyone thought of this? "we can't fix it for cheap so we go wipe your fate points - there - bug fixed"

  8. #28
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Did you think U17, U18, U19, the four new iconics, and the enhancement pass were developed by Keebler elves or something? Turbine didn't spend any money to make those? LOL! Seriously, do you even read what you post?
    Are you referring to U17 where they made one new raid and bumped the AI of the other quests? While I enjoyed eGH, this was the only decent content that we have received since the last paid expansion.

    U18 and U19 are both cash grabs. U18 brought us two quests, and broke at least 2 dozen other things. Do not make it out that U18 was worth all the quest closures and other things it broke.

    Turbine can spend a billion dollars on a broke enhancement pass and a billion dollars on the update to wipe your ED xp away. If they are producing more problems than they are fixing and more importantly, THEY ARE SELLING **** NO ONE WANTS, THEY ARE WASTING RESOURCES. Give players what they want. Unneeded nerfs and breaking content that is not even half tested is not what most of want.

    God forbid, but if the servers were to go down tomorrow, Turbine would only have themselves to blame. They should quit putting all their resources into dumb **** that we do not want. Should I just say “ Here is $200 Turbine. Thanks for nerfing my Shiradi. Her have another $200 for breaking my cleric with the new pass”.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeGirl View Post
    Frankly, since ED's were introduced I felt that keeping the ED xp after TR was not plausible.
    A new life starts at 0 xp. It never made any sense to me why "normal" xp and ED xp should be handled in different ways.

    Having a TR keep ED xp was a terrible mistake in the first place in my opinion. It should never have been that way. It was a terrible design mistake.

    However, since a lot of players were happily farming away to max out all their EDs, I understand they'd feel cheated by Turbine on going back from their explicit statement that ED xp will persist through TR. Technically (not legally) it's like a breach of contract.

    The lesson learned is: It's hard to correct something that was broken from the start after so many players have embraced the brokenness and relied on it staying broken.

    I think there's no way for Turbine to make this right anymore. There is no solution.

    But it's actually a rather harmless change compared to the changes likely to happen a month or two after SFC goes live. Like shutting down one or two servers permanently.
    It was broken huh? You do understand the ramifications of fate points and such right? And the colossal amount of xp involved? If it wasn't stated that it would be kept the system for ED itself would have been rejected by most at inception. What is being suggested may have been on their mind from the start but that would be extraordinarily dishonest and underhanded on their part.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Some really good points. I don't agree with the breach of contract point of view, but I agree a lot of people are acting like it is a breach of contract.
    Because it is. The only issue is whether you have legal remedy, which per the contract you PRESUMABLY do not. This doesn't make it less of a violation however. It makes it more of one as you are used and abused without recourse except to quit.

    Think of it this way. You build a design. You craft it into reality. Said design used concept that are being recycled and freely borrowed by thousands of corporations. You invested personal time, energy, and emotion into seeing this design reach fruition. You are not a corporation and so you do not own the product of your labors. Have a nice day.

    Is it really so hard for you and others to understand the problem here?

  11. #31
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Let me see,....epic XP was literally explained to be something that stays as is when we TR.

    In the new system epic XP disappears after TR.

    No breach of contract? LOL This is all similar to "VIP receive all content, classes and races...." then changing "all" to "most" in the agreement. This changing the agreement to fit the new plan is the same as changing the description of a game mechanic to fit how it works in its bugged state rather than fixing the bug itself when players alert them to the fact that the description doesn't match what's happening.

    They have altered the deal. Pray they do not alter it any further.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #32
    Founder AnubisPrime's Avatar
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    My hopes are that there will be two types of TR or that they will give us an option:

    Proposal...

    Heroic--like we have now-which has nothing to do with your Epic Destinies.
    Epic--what they are proposing, which is an additional process.

    The first is the traditional TR that we know which has nothing to do with Epic Destinies. This mechanic would have to remain as it is--as there are folks who didn't purchase MoTU and have no Epic Destinies.

    The second--Epic TR--is something in addition we can elect to do for Epic Past Life Feats where you have (as initially proposed) to give up your EDs for it and for some sort of conversion to Heroic XP so you can come back as a level 16-20. This is what the concept of reincarnation is. You have to give something up.


    This reminds me of the thread about Greater and Epic Learning Tomes and the confusion between Heroic/Epic XP and Heroic/Epic quests.

    Bad mnemonics Turbine...

    There would be less outrage if they would in a clear way spell out that the old TR is going to remain intact.

    If not, get your completionists done now!
    Last edited by AnubisPrime; 06-18-2013 at 07:12 AM.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    So far I like Piloto's option 2 where we get to retain our EDXP and still get to Epic TR for 1 of the Epic Past Lives. That seemed to be the most in line with all of the player feedback.


    Edit: I do hope though that after Update 20 Tubine can start work on mending the end game. We need more raids, more epics, more drool worthy gear (and bank space)
    Last edited by Atremus; 06-18-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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  14. #34
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    How about this proposal, they scrap the idea because its S%&$!

    i will not be doing anymore tr and plan to play and have fun until this release hits then i quit and move onto another game and got exactly the one in mind. no you cant have my stuff it will be delited with my char

    one thing i have learned is that i wont be playing turbine games again once done with ddo.. they seem to care more about money than the players in my opinion, its an insult having more grind thrown in your face after getting completionist.. like that wasent enough grind already.
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

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