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  1. #201
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It means you need NEW people buying packs out-right like many people did years ago. The game is filled with new people so apparently it's working. Is it enough new people buying old packs? i have no idea.

    Easier to rotate people than it is to keep old players happy.
    What I suggest should be considered is to offer "free pack weekends" where packs are open to everyone to try out. (consequently, were I a bean counter, I think I'd be pondering the temp removing raid timer bypasses during some of these times for the more Favorited quest packs.)
    Honestly, I think guest passes under their current implementation suck.

    Keeping old time players happy is a nice thing. Note I didn't say good. There are times when keeping old timers happy isn't going to keep your business profitable if you can't get new people due to the current model.

  2. #202
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It means you need NEW people buying packs out-right like many people did years ago. The game is filled with new people so apparently it's working. Is it enough new people buying old packs? i have no idea.

    Easier to rotate people than it is to keep old players happy.
    You may be right depending on how many times the game can attract new players and how many people are interested in this kind of game. It has had a good track record for keeping people staying for years though. Longevity works in their favor with new players as well as old players. It wouldn't be hard to recover losses by making whatever changes needed to both the game and the payment plans that will fill their needs and then sticking to them. It's only difficult to keep old players happy when the rules keep changing and new players become old players eventually. That is my opinion anyway.

    You also have to consider that those new players of years ago were brought in by the new f2p model. It's going to be difficult to roll anything that big out ever again.

  3. #203
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    You may be right depending on how many times the game can attract new players and how many people are interested in this kind of game. It has had a good track record for keeping people staying for years though. Longevity works in their favor with new players as well as old players. It wouldn't be hard to recover losses by making whatever changes needed to both the game and the payment plans that will fill their needs and then sticking to them. It's only difficult to keep old players happy when the rules keep changing and new players become old players eventually. That is my opinion anyway.

    You also have to consider that those new players of years ago were brought in by the new f2p model. It's going to be difficult to roll anything that big out ever again.
    On my server all I can say is the "Korthos Army" n00bs by far out-number the verteran guilds.

    They gotta be coming from somewhere.

  4. #204
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    You also have to consider that those new players of years ago were brought in by the new f2p model. It's going to be difficult to roll anything that big out ever again.
    Almost everyone I know started with F2P. The 2006ers are all but gone. But the class of 2009/2010 have bought everything already and ain't gonna spend much more money.

    New blood = more cash. No shock that this is the better place to focus.

    I just thought about why the new update has no raid . . . Raid loot can't be sold on the shard exchange. It's that simple ain't it?

  5. #205
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    On my server all I can say is the "Korthos Army" n00bs by far out-number the verteran guilds.

    They gotta be coming from somewhere.
    That doesn't mean they will be staying. Who knows they might just have been attracted here by listening to some vet on Neverwinter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Almost everyone I know started with F2P. The 2006ers are all but gone. But the class of 2009/2010 have bought everything already and ain't gonna spend much more money.

    New blood = more cash. No shock that this is the better place to focus.

    I just thought about why the new update has no raid . . . Raid loot can't be sold on the shard exchange. It's that simple ain't it?
    I know you like raids. If it's that simple I can't see it being a good thing for you.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Wow, I thought you were one of the good players...
    Mistake 1.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I don't need pots for any content...
    Of course, like you apparently, any content I run on normal I don't need pots.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Maybe you should learn to conserve SP instead of blowing through it as fast as possible... A solid group does not need pots... And there's a ton of shrines in most of the newer quests.
    Thanks Capt. Obvious. I didn't say *I* ran through pots. I pug often, solid groups can be quite rare.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    But on my server, the only people who think you need pots to run EE's are the most casual, lowest common denominator types, who really don't run Epics and base their opinions on 3rd party rumours instead of personal experience. This isn't an elitist attitude either, most EE groups really don't use pots.
    Of course because you would never base your opinion on rumours and claim it not an attitude. I mean who listens to the casual, lowest common denominator types anyway? Fortunately for you, few of those types can click your "all welcome" PUG lfms fast enough. Whew.
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  8. #208
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It means you need NEW people buying packs out-right like many people did years ago. The game is filled with new people so apparently it's working. Is it enough new people buying old packs? i have no idea.

    Easier to rotate people than it is to keep old players happy.
    Thats a tough sell in the business world. To choose cycling through users twice a year rather than keep long term users, which MMOs have already proven can happen for longer than a decade.

    Most of those new players are looking for a new MMO to play. They arent looking for a 7 year old MMO to play which they chose not to play for 7 years until today, when they dicided to give it a try. They likely already did their research and didnt play in the past, or tried it and didnt like it.
    Last edited by Chai; 06-20-2013 at 03:59 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    The problem is that, in almost every business model, the stuff you want people buying is the big-ticket items, and not the micro-transactions. That’s where you make your profits.
    Actually, in most retail businesses, people price shop big ticket items enough that they have a fairly low profit margin. Low cost, impulse purchases have big fat profit margins because they are cheap enough that most people just buy it. Couple that with the fact that they are consumables which need to be purchased often, and you have the paradox that low cost items generate a lot of the profits for retail businesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    F2P is what it is – a loss-leader that gets people in and playing the game. Premium gets Turbine an infusion of cash, but that is fairly short-lived.
    If Turbine wanted to ditch Premium and micro transactions, they could do it anytime they wanted to. There is a reason why Premium is the preferred pricing model for Turbine. See prior discussion to understand why.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    The problem is that they are not pushing enough new content out fast enough to make that model work (in my estimation).
    New content, as in raids and quests, are expensive to create from a man power standpoint, and require a sizable player base in order to recapture the investment, let alone make a profit. With the current size of the player base, we are likely near the end of the traditional content update cycle we have seen since micro transactions were introduced.

    Instead, welcome to the era of the "two updates crammed together to make an expansion". By the way, have you seen our new selection of pets?

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Aside from the fact that I’m VIP and maybe about to be pushed out of that model into Premium, it’s all fine and dandy.
    If you are doing this simply based upon economics, I think the boat has already sailed on that option, unless the Asheron's Call gaming experience really looks that attractive to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    On my server all I can say is the "Korthos Army" n00bs by far out-number the verteran guilds.

    They gotta be coming from somewhere.
    Its called US summer vacation for the under 18 set. They'll be back in school by September, and will soon forget DDO exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    Of course, like you apparently, any content I run on normal I don't need pots. ?*
    Are you trying to tell us that Thrudh recently moved up to normal from casual?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Most of those new players are looking for a new MMO to play. ?*They arent looking for a 7 year old MMO to play which they chose not to play for 7 years until today, when they dicided to give it a try. ?*They likely already did their research and didnt play in the past, or tried it and didnt like it.
    Pretty much this.

    The last large influx of players which lasted for any length of time was when micro transactions were introduced. That changed the entire dynamic of the game, which meant that it merited a reassessment by people who previously decided to give it a pass.

    To pull in a sizable number of new people who are destined to stay for awhile, the dynamic of the game needs to change in a significant fashion, while preferably not alienating the current paying customers. I suspect that Turbine believes this is what the enhancement pass will do. Its more likely that

    1) Its not enough of a game changer to make many new people opt in to DDO
    2) Its enough of a game changer to make a lot of existing customers opt out of DDO

  10. #210
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    So the idea is to be cycled and recycled through content in the expectation of buying consumables and trading loot on the astral shard auction house. The lastest changes put forth are to insure that we are going to include the lastest developed content into the cyclie. It does make sense and could last along time too. A game of grind and grind, buy and buy. Lose a few gain a few and keep the wheels turning.

    New playable race- Hampster

  11. #211
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Once upon a time, I replied to a meta-complaint thread. The first post in the thread was complaining that everyone in the forums complained all the time and that we had a really negative community. In my reply, I said that all of those complaints were a good thing. It meant that the players cared enough about the game to get upset when they saw things that should be fixed or that Turbine could do better. I suggested that the time when Turbine would *really* have to worry was when players stop complaining because they just can't muster the enthusiasm needed to make a complaint on the forums.

    I've pretty much stopped complaining on the forums. So have all but a very few people who are willing to put up with the awful forums interface. Turbine can take from that what they will.
    They probably declare the forum upgrade a complete success then - there have been a few "please fix the forums" threads sanitized off the forums in the past few weeks, which supports that it may be WAI according to the company,
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    They probably declare the forum upgrade a complete success then - there have been a few "please fix the forums" threads sanitized off the forums in the past few weeks, which supports that it may be WAI according to the company,
    Well, they did sell at least a few copies of the expansion recently. Given that, the have likely stepped back, evaluated, and deemed the game and the forums are "good enough".

    Just to make sure, they had a few devs open some threads, and some people were able to post replies in those threads. My guess is that was the final step of the QA process. At this point, all systems go. What more do you want?

  13. #213
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Most of those new players are looking for a new MMO to play. They arent looking for a 7 year old MMO to play which they chose not to play for 7 years until today, when they dicided to give it a try. They likely already did their research and didnt play in the past, or tried it and didnt like it.
    Ghallanda is infested with new players. This is a GOOD thing, not complaining about it.

    Explain that please.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Most of those new players are looking for a new MMO to play. They arent looking for a 7 year old MMO to play which they chose not to play for 7 years until today, when they dicided to give it a try. They likely already did their research and didnt play in the past, or tried it and didnt like it.
    Unfounded.

    I know more than a few casual and serious MMOers in RL, and regularly attend large cons heavily weighted towards entertainment/pop culture. None of them had even heard of DDO until 2013, and none had either researched it nor tried it. You're way overestimating the actual retail habits of consumers before they buy something. Very few people do actual research, some serious weighing of pros and cons, before they engage in a entertainment activity. They are driven to do it by advertisements and popularity (which is why WOW captured so many of them). People buy luxury goods to feel good about themselves, and of that contigent, only a tiny fraction of customers do research before buying. You've made a lot of interesting and insightful posts, but your particular brand of heavy analysis occurs natrually in probably less than .1% of consumers (from someone who's been shelpping emotional crack to pop culture junkies for years now).

    Only reason I even tried DDO was because I accidentally clicked on an advertisement on some flash game site (hilariously enough the only web ads I see anymore are for DDO - so that tells you how stupid web advertising is) and I remembered while seeing it was F2P that I used to enjoy playing all of the Gold Box and later non-MMO stuff for PC. I tried it because of nostalgia, I stayed because it was a pretty interesting game once I learned the details through playing, not research. I'd never even tried an MMO prior to DDO.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    Of course because you would never base your opinion on rumours and claim it not an attitude. I mean who listens to the casual, lowest common denominator types anyway? Fortunately for you, few of those types can click your "all welcome" PUG lfms fast enough. Whew.
    What I mean is that I have PUG'ed almost daily on Khyber for the past 3 years and I know almost everyone who PUG's regularly there. Over that period of time, in my daily PUG'ing, at any particular time, with any particular goup of players that I've seen more than once before, the issue of pots NEVER gets raised.

    The only times I've ever heard people whining about it, are those making excuses as to why they don't run EE's. The only places I ever hear people saying that pots are needed, are low level players in Marketplace general chat or opinionated forum hero types who spend more time here than in the game.

  16. #216
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    What I mean is that I have PUG'ed almost daily on Khyber for the past 3 years and I know almost everyone who PUG's regularly there. Over that period of time, in my daily PUG'ing, at any particular time, with any particular goup of players that I've seen more than once before, the issue of pots NEVER gets raised.

    The only times I've ever heard people whining about it, are those making excuses as to why they don't run EE's. The only places I ever hear people saying that pots are needed, are low level players in Marketplace general chat or opinionated forum hero types who spend more time here than in the game.
    I too am on khyber and I would have to agree with you. The goal is *not* to use any pots even on raids. And iv'e plenty EE's without pots, heck even EE's without any real hard out casters, sorc/wiz/fs/cleric/druid, (quests).

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Ghallanda is infested with new players. This is a GOOD thing, not complaining about it.

    Explain that please.
    upcoming expansion? I don't play other games and don't really keep tabs on the big new ones coming out or the more popular ones, but maybe a lapse between games?

    low levels always are filled with what appears to be new players. unless we stand in Korthos and the Harbor and ask as we see them materialize, we don't know if they are new.

    a lot of the direction Turbine has gone in the past couple years is short gain and no feel for longevity. how many of these new players stick around for more than 6 months? how many new players actually stick with playing and make it to cap? some of it is not Turbines fault, but the vets too. vets can easily ruin a new players experience and shun them away until they get better like them (HA!).

    activity in DDO is all dependent on many many different things going on. right now, I would say the big thing we could see an increase in population is the expansion. word of media gets out about it and people want to check out DDO, even ones who tried it before or used to play for an extended amount of time. however, one problem I have always noticed is that there does seem to be a lack of advertisement for DDO. I see commercials for every other game, see the ads in magazines, but I never see DDO advertisement outside of gaming magazines and the occasional web ad when I am looking up games.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    I did not approve of the urban dictionary for Turbined. But I am beginning to come around.
    LMFAO......the longer you're here the more intrinsic the term becomes.

  19. #219
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    upcoming expansion? I don't play other games and don't really keep tabs on the big new ones coming out or the more popular ones, but maybe a lapse between games?

    low levels always are filled with what appears to be new players. unless we stand in Korthos and the Harbor and ask as we see them materialize, we don't know if they are new.

    a lot of the direction Turbine has gone in the past couple years is short gain and no feel for longevity. how many of these new players stick around for more than 6 months? how many new players actually stick with playing and make it to cap? some of it is not Turbines fault, but the vets too. vets can easily ruin a new players experience and shun them away until they get better like them (HA!).

    activity in DDO is all dependent on many many different things going on. right now, I would say the big thing we could see an increase in population is the expansion. word of media gets out about it and people want to check out DDO, even ones who tried it before or used to play for an extended amount of time. however, one problem I have always noticed is that there does seem to be a lack of advertisement for DDO. I see commercials for every other game, see the ads in magazines, but I never see DDO advertisement outside of gaming magazines and the occasional web ad when I am looking up games.

    Low level + unguildied + first life = probably a new player.

    it's not that tough.

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