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  1. #101
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm still VIP . . . but I haven't bought points all year. I used to buy a pack of points whenever they went on sale as I loved the cosmetic junk, TR/LR hearts, stat-tomes (yeah, P2Win I know), etc . . . there'd be useful stuff. I never minded, it was a game I loved and still the cheapest hobby I've ever had.

    Post Motu . . . things have changed. Actually come to think of it I haven't bought points since MoTU.

    Here's the thing . . . anyone who isn't homeless can easily afford $10/month for a subscription, but that's not gonna keep the lights on. There were only 500 people on Ghallanda last night at 8 PM eastern (I was bored, I counted). Even if they are all VIP that's nothing in terms of money.
    That really depends. Because of timezones, and shifts in players and the times they come on, they could be pulling about $100,000.00 in annual revenue from VIPs on G-Land alone (note: revenue, not profit). We are a fairly low-population server. Plus, factoring out salaries, software maintenance costs are fairly low. Its the salaries that are the killer. But I'm beginning to believe that they are not paying top-dollar for talent.

    But your point is noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    They need to sell us stuff, content, P2Win junk we don't need (and smart people have stopped buying), comsmetics, TR hearts, XP pots . .. etc. if we're not buying that stuff they are in trouble, their playerbase now is too small..
    I basically stopped putting money into the game after MotU, and the reneg on the "all content" promise. It does make me wonder how many people ended up doing the same.

  2. #102
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Oh, and remember: DDO is just a game.









    :P

  3. #103
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    For the most part, I'll agree with you on this one.

    However, I'm not upset with my pre purchase of MoTU, nor am I with this one.
    The reason isn't because of the "what am I getting" that I don't know about, or changes that are coming that effect the whole game. It is because I know some things that I know I am getting.

    I pre bought for the items. XP tomes? Skill tomes? Gold Seal hirelings at high level? (given the number of characters I have) it is cheeper to buy the pre purchase than to buy individually from the store.
    ^This. I played the [bleep] out of MoTU, sure it had bugs in the beginning but I've totally gotten my money's worth. With the TP point bonus package and as mentioned above, all of the things you get now practically add up to the full amount. So the notion of being fooled doesn't really carry weight. Everyone I know in guild save a few stragglers have the expansion. We run it.

    Does this make it so I cannot complain about wasting my time and money(xp pots keys of destiny etc.) leveling EDs for Fate points as they were intended? I'd say not.

    I may not quit the game, who knows, but losing fate points upon TRing has taken a drastic amount of wind out DDO's sails for me. Probably won't see another dime for a long long time. I will just make do and take my time, maybe I just get bored of doing the same grind for something I already had... totally possible.

  4. #104
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    It depends on what you define as mass exodus. It has been happening for a while people leaving DDO and less people are joining to fill their places. The MOTU did not see an upsurge in the population at all much to Turbine's chagrin.

    Let me explain just how bad this Epic Destiny xp wipe is. First, it invalidates any grind we might do in the future. If someone goes out and completes the epic completionist who is to say that a year from now Turbine will not just wipe that and make the player grind it out again? This wipe totally invalidates Turbine's word regarding grinds.

    What is different with this and previous grinds is it prevents a player from remaking characters and keeping that character's gear an option that was given with true reincarnation originally. The player real choice now is to keep a character as a certain build with capped destinies and roll up brand new characters to try out builds or to wipe all the xp the character spent the entire year getting. In an MMO it is expected that a player will have to keep up with the current grind in order to keep a character at close to the optimum, but if the player decides not to participate in the current grind they will still be able to have decent characters up to a point and for a time. e.g. If I chose not to go for the new sword, I still have the old sword which is not as good presumably, but I can still participate and use the old sword. Well now I can not particpate in a core aspect of DDO which is trying out new builds either that or I totally invalidate what I spent the previous year attaining which was an utter waste of time.

    There were many other solutions to this that would have cost the playerbase far less in regards to time waste. Turbine could have nerfed the high xp quests xp given significantly not soon after MOTU was released. Turbine could have come out with this information that Producer Glin just provided months ago. Turbine could have had more foresight about the epic destinies and actually put this in place a year ago. I am very suspicious of Turbine in that they could have come up with the epic experience plan in the development of MOTU and held out on putting this into place until this year. DDO has begun to feel dysfunctional and not worth my or other people's money or time.
    Particularly this....

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    There were many other solutions to this that would have cost the playerbase far less in regards to time waste.
    The popular items in the store are the ones that mitigate time waste. In order to sell those items, they must design more time waste into the game. Years ago, I was saying that we dont see them doing this yet, because there are still plenty of things from older eras of the DDO game that they can get us to pay to circumvent (like TR xp, which is arbitrarily more than 2x as much as first life Xp, for the same reason), but once those dry up, they will begin designing new inconvenience into the game solely for the purpose of charging you (the player) to mitigate the sheer level of grind.

    In most MMOs, its the rate at which they put out new content which increases the replay value of the game to the point where even the most staunch powergamers hang around and keep playing. In this game, its literally character power, but instead of tethering that character power solely to gear at max level like other MMOs do, they created a system where most of the character power is in the abilities that must be ground out. So instead of grinding through new content more often, we are being asked to grind through their XP system more often.

    This is kind of odd, because it has been proven that people WILL grind through content as fast as Turbine can release it. They will also pay handsomely for high quantities of timer bypass to do so in order to get the items they want. Doubling up on content creation would be money in the bank with this formula.

    The only reason this makes any sense at all from a money standpoint is what Vint alread stated - that it doesnt cost much to make us grind the same content over and over again more times to earn the same XP we already had, so the money down up front doesnt need to be invested in pushing out new content. The expansion is esentially 2 updates worth of quests. Most of the content people who want to TR will need to grind is content they already ground through alot in the past.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #105
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locus View Post
    ...
    Yeah, thanks for your oh so meaningful contribution to the thread, brushing everyone's concerns aside...
    You need that reminder if this proposed change is a "kick in the balls".

    Having concern about how the game you enjoy is going to change and expressing concern is completely different than running around saying something about the sky falling and that jack-booted Turbine troopers are breaking into your house to pee in your cornflakes and, yes, kick you in the balls.

  6. #106
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Turbine can I get my money back for my purchase of the expansion? I am willing to return any gifts in the standard package which I purchased. I talked myself into purchasing the $30.00 expansion what I can say. I like many others am really disappointed in the decision that all the epic destiny previously earned will disappear upon a true reincarnation except for one destiny. I worked hard to earn all of that xp. This decision negatively affects nearly every one of my guildies and friends in game.

    I think there should be an option that I and others out there who have purchased the expansion can return our purchase and get our money back. I find the decision to sell the expansion 3 weeks prior to this epic destiny xp announcement disinguous on Turbine's part. I am serious about this and not renewing my subscription.

    Thanks,

    A Customer
    I'm pretty sure that the answer is no, and also that this is EXACTLY the reason why they started selling the expansion before announcing anything about what was in it or upcoming changes to the game.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I blame getting bought up by Warner Brothers. I just have to wonder how long till WB decides enough is enough.
    Well, my browser tabs for the forum now show the WB icon rather than DDO. Based upon how Turbine has handled things of late, you have to wonder just how much value the Turbine brand still retains.

    Turbine is based near Boston. I'm not sure that WB, especially WB Interactive Entertainment, really has much of a presence in that area other than Turbine. A corporate consolidation might be a good cost saving measure, and a way to establish better management control of the games Turbine currently provides.

  8. #108
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Well, my browser tabs for the forum now show the WB icon rather than DDO. Based upon how Turbine has handled things of late, you have to wonder just how much value the Turbine brand still retains.

    Turbine is based near Boston. I'm not sure that WB, especially WB Interactive Entertainment, really has much of a presence in that area other than Turbine. A corporate consolidation might be a good cost saving measure, and a way to establish better management control of the games Turbine currently provides.
    Doesn't that happen, broadly, when any larger company buys a smaller company or is there a practice in the gaming industry that you're referring to?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinusWyllt View Post
    Doesn't that happen, broadly, when any larger company buys a smaller company or is there a practice in the gaming industry that you're referring to?
    I was not referring to something specific to the gaming industry. I was referring to the possibility of

    1) Closing the Boston development center
    2) Moving any further development of those games to a larger, centralized WB Interactive Entertainment location, and rebranding them as WB Interactive Games without a Turbine name plate
    3) Making decisions on what Turbine employees would be offered positions at the new, centralized development center
    4) Compressing the management structure in an attempt to ensure it was more results orientated
    5) Either completely folding Turbine as a corporation, or keeping it around merely as an accounting entity, based upon the relative tax advantages of the two approaches

    Corporate business units which under perform typically lose greater degrees of independence the longer they under perform.

  10. #110
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The player real choice now is to keep a character as a certain build with capped destinies and roll up brand new characters to try out builds or to wipe all the xp the character spent the entire year getting.
    Precisely.

    And, unfortunately, due to the shifting nature of this particular MMO, character builds do not 'last forever'.

    Where are all the Blizt builds?
    The WF barbarians?


    They're all gone (or should be) since they're quite sub-optimal in current gameplay.
    Turbine got away with neutering those kinds of builds, because a simple TR and you're back in business.
    However taking all the ED XP and the twists away means that you face a staggering choice if you want to remake a character who gets neutered. 20million XP or tough it out and see if you come back into vogue again?


    Having said that, I actually like the idea of locking in one destiny, and needing to burn through multiple TRs to have them all locked away (and gaining benefit from it). But you can't change the game mid-stream. So to all toons with current maxxed destinies, either allow them to lock them all away, or give them one locked away destiny for each past life they've already achieved. Or one full past life (And locked away destiny) for any destiny they've maxxed.

  11. #111
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Oh, and remember: DDO is just a game.









    :P
    Not for much longer!

  12. #112
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Can i have back all the money i spent on the game?
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  13. #113
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    The hell ya talking about. Those crazed lamma's have been literally flipping a camera the bird, scanning the picture, and uploading it to this game. Did ya think somehow magically that lil screwball lookn lucky charms leprechaun was gonna change that?

    All that was gonna get was worse. The first expansion should have been an all to fresh reminder of what preordering is and results in.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  14. #114
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    You know something is really really not right if Norg wants his money back, that losing all your ED xp cept in one is really terrible.

    Hope they pay attention to all the posts and threads about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    But, there is no grind atm. When this goes live, all we have to do is grind 3 levels and acquire some loot that might not be better than EGH. To many of us we can do this in three or so days. Then DDO will be back to a ghost town until more content comes out.

    There will not be enough content to keep people happy, so they need to make the grind somehow. Chai is right. Every update more and more people are seeing that the content they are releasing is based around a cash grab. Period.

    They may alter what we are all upset about atm, but everything they do is centered around putting mechanics in that make you open your wallet. This is just another line that Turbine has crossed for some, and many might walk if this does not change. There are many fatcats that will pay to keep the servers going, but with less and less people playing, well you know how it goes.
    wouldn't being able to tr again be enough grind...... i was kinda looking forward to doing some regular heoric tring...... now I dont really want to.......with the added having to grind all those ED's again, oh and if in the future I might think about tring that toon again I will face the same dilemma its damn mind numbing ED grinding. Now I most likely wont even bother to tr my toons with multiple EDS done.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 06-16-2013 at 11:18 PM.

  15. #115
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    You are entitled to a refund, but you should speak to support about it.

    I'd like to point out that Turbine aren't just doing mean things for the sake of meanness with this TR change. If the players really don't want it, they'll change it.

  16. #116
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    ...wouldn't being able to tr again be enough grind...
    Game developers will usually correlate a stark loss of interest in playing with:

    1) Lack of challenging content
    2) An excess of repetitive, boring content

    The people in this thread (it's the same dozen or so) need to realize that they are a very small minority (end-gamers) of a very small minority (active accounts). Most people, as judged by the layout of the LFM panels and reports by www.ddoracle.com, are not even worried about epic destinies. They may not own them, and even if they do they may have ignored them to play the endless-TR game first. This is the short-circuit concept that Piloto was talking about.

    The bottom line is that they are severely confused. I would bet most of those people are STILL not going to care about epic destinies and end game content, even after this change. That is the problem with only having a metagame view of the game you yourself are designing. You think every motive has some ulterior motive of overpowered character design.

    The people who are playing DDO are pretty small in number, and most of them are playing simply to have fun. Having fun is what remains after all the "hardcores" leave.

  17. #117
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    4) Compressing the management structure in an attempt to ensure it was more results orientated
    I would say turbine is doing well in that category. After all, to a big company like WB profits=results. Everything else is a problem for PR.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  18. #118
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    The people who are playing DDO are pretty small in number, and most of them are playing simply to have fun. Having fun is what remains after all the "hardcores" leave.
    And what's fun about losing EDs?

    I know plenty of non hardcore people with multiple EDs capped on a toon.

  19. #119
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Oh, and remember: DDO is just a game.
    Yes! A game! With only two sides. We the kobolds, and Turbine who comes to take our shinies!
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  20. #120
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Game developers will usually correlate a stark loss of interest in playing with:

    1) Lack of challenging content
    2) An excess of repetitive, boring content

    The people in this thread (it's the same dozen or so) need to realize that they are a very small minority (end-gamers) of a very small minority (active accounts). Most people, as judged by the layout of the LFM panels and reports by www.ddoracle.com, are not even worried about epic destinies. They may not own them, and even if they do they may have ignored them to play the endless-TR game first. This is the short-circuit concept that Piloto was talking about.

    The bottom line is that they are severely confused. I would bet most of those people are STILL not going to care about epic destinies and end game content, even after this change. That is the problem with only having a metagame view of the game you yourself are designing. You think every motive has some ulterior motive of overpowered character design.

    The people who are playing DDO are pretty small in number, and most of them are playing simply to have fun. Having fun is what remains after all the "hardcores" leave.
    Your analysis is flawed for multiply reasons. First, all someone has to do is have a level 25 character or have levelled a character to 25 and they will lose destiny xp under this proposal. Since levelling a character to level 25 gives a character a capped destiny and additional tiers in a second destiny the player would lose all the xp gained in the second destiny . Someone that has a level 25 character is not necessarily an endgame player and is almost certainly not necessariliy a hardcore player.

    Now you could argue that most of the playerbase do not have level 25 characters which is true. The reality though is Turbine has diversified DDO's revenue with the creation of the DDO store. VIP accounts and premium adventure packs make up much less of a % of DDO's revenue then it did in the past. You need a revenue breakdown to really do your argument justice. My guess is that a small % of the population accounts for a significate % of Turbine's revenue. These 'hardcore' spenders Turbine must appease because they can significantly affect Turbine's bottom line. If this proposal really angers these hardcore spenders and many of them leave then Turbine has just made a major error.
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