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  1. #61
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    After experiencing rapid onset buyers remorse after buying MotU, I decided that guaranteed beta access wasn't enough to tempt me this time around to buy straight away. I feel really good about that decision these days.
    Last edited by whomhead; 06-13-2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: but I still feel some of the vitriol people spew on these forums is over the top

  2. #62
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    To be honest, this whole deal between the poor expansion, the announcement to nerf epic destinies, and other horrible failures on Turbine's part make the Stormreaver want to cry a river...
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Nope. You must understand how short the memory of the population base is. You see, when the first TR mechanic was released, had they arbitrarily raised the XP needed to cap AND put the XP pots in the store in the same patch , riots would have ensued. All Turbine had to do was arbitrarily increase the amount of XP needed, then wait a bit, THEN put the Xp pots in the store. When they did this, the players rejoiced en masse and thanked Turbine for allowing them to pay to mitigate the gawd awful grind, completely ignoring the fact that it was them that designed that grind t be worse the entire time.
    Better be careful, the fanbois lurk.

    Look, from Day 1 of the DDO Store there was a choice to be made on how to fleece *cough*, I mean, sell product to the masses. IMO, DDO chose to board the rail downward into endless grind and game mechanics such as you describe. My complaint from Day 1 - will DDO design questing and gameplay around what is sold in the Store, beginning with mana pots?

    The only thing that amazes me, as we sit closer to bottom of the slope now, is that there are still a few fanbois left who claim the slope is an illusion. I swear, DDO must pick up their tabs.
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  4. #64
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    While it's pretty depressing that they would be so disconnected from the player experience to even propose such a system, my bet is that they will come to their senses and change how this works.

    If they don't... well it's been a good run, but I'll be done also. Not regrinding all my destiny XP.

    Edit: oh, and I don't get why anyone is pre-ordering. They said the packs will be available from day 1 of release with TP at a lower cost than the pre-order (assuming you're buying enough points to get better than 100/$1). The only thing you miss out on is the cosmetic bonus stuff and a (broken until the xpack comes out) bladeforged pally.

    I don't have any problem spending money on cosmetics, but who wants the same cosmetics that half the server has? The whole point is to make your toon look a bit different.
    Last edited by SerPounce; 06-14-2013 at 12:23 AM.
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  5. #65
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    While it's pretty depressing that they would be so disconnected from the player experience to even propose such a system, my bet is that they will come to their senses and change how this works.

    If they don't... well it's been a good run, but I'll be done also. Not regrinding all my destiny XP.

    Edit: oh, and I don't get why anyone is pre-ordering. They said the packs will be available from day 1 of release with TP at a lower cost than the pre-order (assuming you're buying enough points to get better than 100/$1). The only thing you miss out on is the cosmetic bonus stuff and a (broken until the xpack comes out) bladeforged pally.

    I don't have any problem spending money on cosmetics, but who wants the same cosmetics that half the server has? The whole point is to make your toon look a bit different.
    Actually I think that this is their standard operating procedure. They "discusss" a system so over the top bad for players that we revolt and then they take time to digest our feedback and then relent and ease up on the system. All the while implementing the actual system they wanted in the first place.

    Think about the changes that came with MOTU. They gave all the mobs epic deathward and made them immune entirely to instakills, getting them to remove that was seen as a major victory but the fanbase and the glow of that "win" glossed over all the other changes that came with it such as removing immunity items and the upping of Mob Saves.

    Had they just come out with those changes the fans would have been just as in arms. This way they cut something so bad they never intended to implement it and we "win".

    It's pretty much a page right out of Marketing 101 really. Hell my department does the same thing at budget time, pad the requests with several medium to high ticket items that we really don't want or need but can be cut after some minor struggle on our part. In the end we tend to get what we need and often a little bit more than we would have if we just submitted the buget we really wanted.

    This strikes me as a page out of the Turbine play book we have already seen at the last expansion.


  6. #66
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Request denied.

    You already know that's Turbine response (if they bothered to respond at all), but it is also mine.

    You were here for MotU. You should darn well know better than to prepurchase Expansion 2. If you didn't learn that lesson from MotU, you'd probably fritter the refund away on some other foolish purchase.

    Do yourself a favor. Kick yourself (metaphorically, of course) until the lesson sinks in. Then, be grateful that you learned such a valuable life lesson at the cost of a handful of dollars.
    Totally. Anyone who bought an expansion without knowing what was in it, imagining that it would somehow be amazing and worth it, just isn't paying attention.

  7. #67
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    The saddest thing for me about this, is that it leaves me with 2 options:

    1.

    Never TR any of my toons again, and be damn happy with the builds they have now.
    Grind gear at end game, grind raids, EE's and the same old stuff with no reprieve.

    Pros:
    I can finally finish my end game gear for all my toons.
    Max the destinies on my alts that I've been neglecting while working on my main.
    Slowly grow tired of this game and leave. I'll finally get the chance to look at other games. Will actually have time to Beta test ESO.

    Cons:
    Never get to change my build or class split.(I'm not willing to buy hearst from the DDO store.)
    Never get to really max out my past lives for my builds maximum potential.
    Slowly grow tired of this game and leave for something less disappointing

    Or option number 2.

    Completely give up on the idea of end game for all my toons and TR. Again and again. Grind completionist on my two toons that I would like it on.

    Pros:
    Have completionist on multiple toons.
    Get to experience at least 1 life of all classes.
    Get to build an AA in every class in the game, and see how well it does with the best gear possible for an AA.
    Get to experience every class at least once as pure.

    Cons:
    Have to deal with the enhancement pass, and everything I know about the game and AA's changing soon.
    When the enhancement pass hits a large number of my planned builds for certain lives will go out the window without ever seeing play.
    Slowly grow tired of this game because of Turbines bad decisions and leave the game.


    So in the end, I really can't see myself playing this game any longer in a years time if this, and a few other proposed changes go live.
    I know I'm just being overly dramatic here, but it really does seem that Turbine doesn't give a damn about what it's players what out of it's game and are willing to kill it to make a few quick bucks.
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  8. #68
    Community Member visibleman's Avatar
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    Angry

    This is a classic bait and switch. We were promised that ED XP would persist through TR. I wouldn't mind if this was OPTIONAL - ie you can CHOOSE to give up your ED progress for and ED Past life feat and levelling advantage.

    But to make it a compulsory change to a product that people paid for is... I can't continue this without swearing.


    So, an analogy...

    Last year I bought a Ferrari because its cool and has nice features. I purchased it with actual money I had worked hard to earn.

    This year, Ferrari come to me and say they are going to 'update' my car to... A Ford Fiesta! They telll me that I will get much more mileage out of the update and that all of the features I paid for will still be there - but I can only use one at a time


    THIS IS NOT WHAT I PAID FOR


    edit: I didn't actually buy a Ferrari, if I had that kind of money I'd just buy Turbine and fix this $hitpile.
    Last edited by visibleman; 06-14-2013 at 05:56 AM.
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  9. #69
    Community Member humbleroller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomhead View Post
    After experiencing rapid onset buyers remorse after buying MotU, I decided that guaranteed beta access wasn't enough to tempt me this time around to buy straight away. I feel really good about that decision these days.
    same.
    after seeing MOTU be sold for half price 2 weeks after it came out i raised my middle finger to the screen. I wont be getting the expansion pack unless its with TPs.
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  10. #70
    Community Member kisnord's Avatar
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    I dont want my money back... I dont care about DDO anymore. This game was fun and cool in 2006. At now Turbine made a massive pile of **** from this game. The launcher is a joke, need 2 logins to start playing (1st ends with a red connection symbol, all the time)? The game loading time is a joke too, usually 5-10 minutes after i choosed the char i wish to play... Client crashing 95% when i go to an explorer zone (menechtarun, vale, orchard, gianthold, these instances crash the game all the time)... bugs everywhere, closed quests and you need to wait a month or more to fix these quests? Seriously? Astral shard AH? Thanks for killing the normal AH, the platinum in the game worth nothing anymore, if i dont want to grind an item, i need to buy in the astral shard AH for euro or dollar? Its disgusting. And now if i grinded my ass off, and want to TR i need to do the whole process again? Its a fools game, if your a fool, play with it, im done with this ****.

    I buyed a DnD Adventure boardgame, and some Dungeon Command game. These games dont have load times, they dont crash, the AI is working, they have miniatures, so the graphics is nice , i can play solo or with a 5 men party.

    My advice: stop playing, and the most important thing: stop PAYING! Becouse now DDO is dont want you to play and have fun, DDO wants only your money, so save your wallet and run !

  11. #71
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    So if you don't like losing ED's just to heroic TR you're either a cheater, or someone who doesn't matter because they farmed rusted blades?.....
    Not at all, that's you making some chocolate-filled assumptions. I was merely speculating...and not defending anything, that's some strange thing you've chosen to infer.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Actually I think that this is their standard operating procedure. They "discusss" a system so over the top bad for players that we revolt and then they take time to digest our feedback and then relent and ease up on the system. All the while implementing the actual system they wanted in the first place.

    Think about the changes that came with MOTU. They gave all the mobs epic deathward and made them immune entirely to instakills, getting them to remove that was seen as a major victory but the fanbase and the glow of that "win" glossed over all the other changes that came with it such as removing immunity items and the upping of Mob Saves.

    Had they just come out with those changes the fans would have been just as in arms. This way they cut something so bad they never intended to implement it and we "win".

    It's pretty much a page right out of Marketing 101 really. Hell my department does the same thing at budget time, pad the requests with several medium to high ticket items that we really don't want or need but can be cut after some minor struggle on our part. In the end we tend to get what we need and often a little bit more than we would have if we just submitted the buget we really wanted.

    This strikes me as a page out of the Turbine play book we have already seen at the last expansion.
    You know the more i think about it, i gotta agree with this.

  13. #73
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I have plenty of characters with 2-4 max destinies and it wouldn't bother me to ETR them and have to re-earn the some EDs. I'll just bond the ED I didn't enjoy.

    The majority of players who claim to be 'hurt' by this are all those HotRB grinders who maxxed everything out and are now upset they'll have to do it again if they want the +2 build points for the uberest character. We are talking about a TINY percentage of players is my guess.
    The people who will be irritated by this are those who have played the game and earned destiny XP, period. The days where only the power gamers are playing epic content are long over, and have been over for years now, and many of them are gone (likely to come back, farm the expansion for the items they want, and leave shortly thereafter again), so you don't get to continue justifying everything Turbine does by blaming it on them. Welcome to 2013 - epics have been played by everyone for a while now.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #74
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Actually I think that this is their standard operating procedure. They "discusss" a system so over the top bad for players that we revolt and then they take time to digest our feedback and then relent and ease up on the system. All the while implementing the actual system they wanted in the first place.

    Think about the changes that came with MOTU. They gave all the mobs epic deathward and made them immune entirely to instakills, getting them to remove that was seen as a major victory but the fanbase and the glow of that "win" glossed over all the other changes that came with it such as removing immunity items and the upping of Mob Saves.

    Had they just come out with those changes the fans would have been just as in arms. This way they cut something so bad they never intended to implement it and we "win".

    It's pretty much a page right out of Marketing 101 really. Hell my department does the same thing at budget time, pad the requests with several medium to high ticket items that we really don't want or need but can be cut after some minor struggle on our part. In the end we tend to get what we need and often a little bit more than we would have if we just submitted the buget we really wanted.

    This strikes me as a page out of the Turbine play book we have already seen at the last expansion.
    I posted this a few years back, and analogized it to raising gas prices. If they want to raise gas prices to 4 dollars a gallon, they don't just jack it up to 4 bucks. They jack it up to 5.50, let everyone complain for a month or two, then the population rejoices and praises them when they lower it to 4 dollars. The fact that it was 3.25 before hand is all but forgotten.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #75
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    Better be careful, the fanbois lurk.

    Look, from Day 1 of the DDO Store there was a choice to be made on how to fleece *cough*, I mean, sell product to the masses. IMO, DDO chose to board the rail downward into endless grind and game mechanics such as you describe. My complaint from Day 1 - will DDO design questing and gameplay around what is sold in the Store, beginning with mana pots?

    The only thing that amazes me, as we sit closer to bottom of the slope now, is that there are still a few fanbois left who claim the slope is an illusion. I swear, DDO must pick up their tabs.
    Indeed there are a few left. When we were discussing these topics in 2009 there were a lot more. Slowly many began to see the issues this brings up through their own experience.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #76
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    You were here for MotU. You should darn well know better than to prepurchase Expansion 2. If you didn't learn that lesson from MotU, you'd probably fritter the refund away on some other foolish purchase.
    Except that MotU was actually very good for some of us. I actually feel like it was an $80 well spent. I got tomes of learning to boost my leveling, I got an item that acts as a clickie for +1 UMD until I log off, and I got access to some really pretty and fun content. I pre-ordered MotU as soon as I could because of all the benefits it came with.

    In contrast the new expansion offers very little and I'm having a hard time justifying the thought of putting even $30 into it.
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  17. #77
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    The expansion has nothing to do with the TR changes, they carefully left this TR madness out of it.

    Btw: I'm not happy with the loss of 21million xp for the EDs. They should keep those two types of XP separated.
    So If you do an epic tr only your Epic Levels XP should be reset and you would gain a feat based on your active epic destiny.
    That's 11 heroic first time lives or roughly worth five TR2 past lives worth of xp btw, not 55 ranks!

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  18. #78
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    The expansion has nothing to do with the TR changes, they carefully left this TR madness out of it.
    At this point it doesn't matter if they are separate. The expansion is little more than two adventure packs with some useless fluff thrown in. It was already pathetic enough that a lot of people were unlikely to purchase it. Many players were already holding off pre-ordering the expansion to watch how things proceeded and now this change only serves to hinder expansion sales even more.
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  19. #79
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I posted this a few years back, and analogized it to raising gas prices. If they want to raise gas prices to 4 dollars a gallon, they don't just jack it up to 4 bucks. They jack it up to 5.50, let everyone complain for a month or two, then the population rejoices and praises them when they lower it to 4 dollars. The fact that it was 3.25 before hand is all but forgotten.
    And this is not the first time that Turbine has pulled this bait-n-switch nonsense on it's players. Hard to kill?

    My guess is some other terrible idea is in the pipeline and this is wagging the dog to distract us.

    It's amazing how a company with such obvious contempt for their customers is still in business.

  20. #80
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It's amazing how a company with such obvious contempt for their customers is still in business.
    I blame getting bought up by Warner Brothers. I just have to wonder how long till WB decides enough is enough.
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