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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default Epic "Advantage" needs to be optional

    Do whatever you want with "epic" TR, it's a new feature that you can make as dumb as you want. We can chose to simply ignore it.

    But the changes to Heroic TR are just not acceptable. This is bait and switch, we never would have bothered maxing out Destinies if we'd been informed that they would eventually go away with a TR.

    Epic "advantage" is pure dreck, whoever came up this this idea is clueless and should be moved off of DDO. This will simply stop people from TRing.

    Make this horrible idea optional.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post

    Epic Advantage


    With any type of True Reincarnation, all Epic Destiny Levels earned will give you an advantage when you rebuild your character, by converting Destiny Levels into Heroic Ranks. Every level of Epic Destiny you have earned will count toward ranks earned for your next life. (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Adding to this . . . if Epic "Advantage" was optional I don't think anyone would have a problem with this new system.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Agreed. When reading the changes I was getting excited about a lot of good things being added, some even that I've asked for. Then I see the 'any TR' resets ED XP unless it was bonded, and you only get one bond per TR and it sucker-punches all of the positives with an extreme negative. If they took that out, reversed it so that you only lose the ED XP you TR from not the rest, or made it optional then I would be likely to continue playing to accrue Iconic, Epic TRs, and experience new content. Leave it as is, and I am likely to completely bypass the whole system for the majority of my characters, or the game altogether.
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  4. #4
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I mentioned in the other thread, but I'll repost here as it seems more appropriate. Firstly, I think that epic "advantage" should not be a part of heroic TR at all. To call it an advantage is to call finding a penny on the street an advantage after someone stole your wallet. It's a slap in the face more than an advantage and pretending that it's some sort of bonus is just insulting the players that just gave up 20 mil+ for it. Heroic TR is fine as is. Invalidating the work of players who didn't do anything wrong is just reinforcing the idea that they either shouldn't try (as their work can be gone on a whim) or just join the exploiters (as they are being punished all the same anyway)

    Now on to a slightly more constructive thought. If Epic advantage is to stay I'd like to see an Stone of Experience (+1 level) awarded for each maxed destiny upon any TR instead of +1 rank (added on to the start at level 1). In this way, we can choose which levels to skip and when. We could bank stones which we choose not to use on any given life and the "epic advantage" can be used on levels where it actually makes an impact. You could skip level 19 and 20 for instance or you could use 8 stones and skip all of level 21 - 28 and max out another 2+ destinies prior to another EDTR.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Adding to this . . . if Epic "Advantage" was optional I don't think anyone would have a problem with this new system.
    Well... I am seeing people that totally dislike TRing but yet they are still complaining about a grind they would never take part of. So people kind of have weird problems about it.

    Even though it's totally **** that they will wipe all ED, I still think it has to be that way. Otherwise someone with full maxed ED will chain TR their ED one by one (because of course they want to only redo 20-28 to get those PLs) and will reacquire the one lost just by re-leveling. That makes no sense at all and it's way too easy to achieve.

    The optional part, I think, is important here. Because that's what make it ok that Turbine choses how big the grind is. If it wasn't optional then that would be total BS. I'm a power gamer and within the present rules, I might Epic TR ONCE. Then never do it again.

    And again i'll repeat what I've posted in the other thread: To do an Epic TR, you have to level from 20-28 and also level the destiny you want to TR. Or again, people would just chain TR using their maxed out best dps ED to level up to 28. Now what this new system pushes you to do is to chose your class accordingly to the ED you want to TR so it will help you during the leveling process.

    Anyway that's how I see it... and even though it didn't make sense at all at first, now it does.

    Change to Heroic TR: now that's another story.

    Edit: I still think it's disgusting to wipe all EDs though. Just seems that it has to be that way for Epic TRs.

    Edit2: Think I was pretty much off subject. Sorry, just woke up.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 06-13-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member merentha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    ... only redo 20-28 to get those PLs
    Granted it's such a huge dev post so much can and is probably being misconstrued, but I understood it as you had to re-level 1-28 each time to get the PDL (Past Destiny Lives..tm pending) Feats.

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merentha View Post
    Granted it's such a huge dev post so much can and is probably being misconstrued, but I understood it as you had to re-level 1-28 each time to get the PDL (Past Destiny Lives..tm pending) Feats.
    no, you read that right. I think if you TR into an Iconic you can start at 15 though.

  8. #8
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Good luck on your quest to make a crappy game change "optional". If it should happen you'll be the first to have pulled it off.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Adding to this . . . if Epic "Advantage" was optional I don't think anyone would have a problem with this new system.
    I agree. As I stated in the other thread, I'm not thrilled about Epic TR'ing wiping all but one destiny but I can live with that because it's a new system.

    What I won't take part in is a change to the current TR system being forced on us that wipes ED xp. As an option? Sure! Go for it! It'll be especially useful to players that decide to do the Epic TR grind, that bind several destinies, and then decide they want to start heroic TR'ing again. They can do so, get a boost every heroic TR, and lose nothing! That would be an amazing mechanic. And this entire system is NOT a bad system. It just needed to be in place on day one and since it wasn't they need to make serious concessions to the people that would be negatively effected by those changes or else they'll lose a lot of customers and alienate a far greater number than they lose.

    An option of whether to heroic TR under the old system or the new system is all it would take to take the volume of protests down from angry mob with pitchforks and torches down to grumpy cat level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Do whatever you want with "epic" TR, it's a new feature that you can make as dumb as you want. We can chose to simply ignore it.

    But the changes to Heroic TR are just not acceptable. This is bait and switch, we never would have bothered maxing out Destinies if we'd been informed that they would eventually go away with a TR.

    Epic "advantage" is pure dreck, whoever came up this this idea is clueless and should be moved off of DDO. This will simply stop people from TRing.

    Make this horrible idea optional.
    /signed, with blood if necessary.

    Because as it stands now, who I their right mind would step into an epic other than to get epic tokens or help a friend get an epic weapon/item.

    IT MUST BE OPTIONAL!

  11. #11
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Turbine has always been self-serving, but this makes no sense. If we can skip heroic levels with this ED TR crapola, this is a definite drop in sales from people buying heroic adventure packs and all the goodies from heroic levels. That makes this a ridiculous idea.

    I can also see people becoming instant level 20 and not having a clue about how to play their class (if they've never done it, before). Heck, half the game is playing through heroic levels and enjoying getting that magic 4.378mil exp.

    This could very easily be made optional. Just go through the motions like you do making a new character with veteran status, except you always have the option to start from level 1. Or even give veteran 4/7 status to TR's. That's an even better idea than this ED TRing thing. I'd love to skip the boring lvl 1-6 grind.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Do whatever you want with "epic" TR, it's a new feature that you can make as dumb as you want. We can chose to simply ignore it.

    But the changes to Heroic TR are just not acceptable. This is bait and switch, we never would have bothered maxing out Destinies if we'd been informed that they would eventually go away with a TR.

    Epic "advantage" is pure dreck, whoever came up this this idea is clueless and should be moved off of DDO. This will simply stop people from TRing.

    Make this horrible idea optional.
    For existing characters with maxed out destines, it's a massive barrier to TRing for sure.

    For new characters, it just means that they will not waste any time doing any Epic stuff until they have finishing doing all of their Heroic TRing to avoid the problem. Which means that you are taking a section of your playerbase's characters and basically confining them to Heroic quests. Which can't be clever.

    I'd like to think that the powers-that-be at Turbine see sense and agree that they could have made it clearer in Glin's OP on the subject and that Heroic TRing will not affect ED XP in any way, and at the same time, a Heroic TR will not give you any epic advantage boost in ranks based on your ED levels at the time you TR.

    For an Epic TR, it's getting something back, which is better than nothing. Whether it's enough, you can decide for yourself. Epic TRing to a level 1 character and gaining ranks might not have much appeal, but Epic TRing into an Iconic and gaining ranks is much more attractive.

    Someone has already suggested the idea of making the epic advantage some sort of XP Stone that will take you to a specific rank number. This sounds like the best option for it, as others have said that they don't want to skip low level content that they enjoy. You can use the advantage stone at any time, but it'll still only take you to a specific rank number, so no way to try and exploit it by holding onto it and then drinking a 50% XP pot, wearing a VOM, with ship buffs, during an XP event ....

  13. #13
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    For existing characters with maxed out destines, it's a massive barrier to TRing for sure.

    For new characters, it just means that they will not waste any time doing any Epic stuff until they have finishing doing all of their Heroic TRing to avoid the problem. Which means that you are taking a section of your playerbase's characters and basically confining them to Heroic quests. Which can't be clever.

    I'd like to think that the powers-that-be at Turbine see sense and agree that they could have made it clearer in Glin's OP on the subject and that Heroic TRing will not affect ED XP in any way, and at the same time, a Heroic TR will not give you any epic advantage boost in ranks based on your ED levels at the time you TR.

    For an Epic TR, it's getting something back, which is better than nothing. Whether it's enough, you can decide for yourself. Epic TRing to a level 1 character and gaining ranks might not have much appeal, but Epic TRing into an Iconic and gaining ranks is much more attractive.

    Someone has already suggested the idea of making the epic advantage some sort of XP Stone that will take you to a specific rank number. This sounds like the best option for it, as others have said that they don't want to skip low level content that they enjoy. You can use the advantage stone at any time, but it'll still only take you to a specific rank number, so no way to try and exploit it by holding onto it and then drinking a 50% XP pot, wearing a VOM, with ship buffs, during an XP event ....
    It might be quicker to get to lvl 28 and then epic TR all the time. Once you did that for all epic destinies, you can pick up all heroic past lifes very quickly... a lot quicker than you can now.

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