There's no grind in DDO unless you choose to make one for yourself.
As for "challenge", there's little of any real challenge in any MMO. Most of it is just a matter of how much time you want to devote/waste.
New to the DDO Store,
Epic Bonding Putty!
Bond a 2nd, 3rd or 4th Epic Destiny before you TR,
Only 9000! TP
There are some positives to the changes that I like, including reduced TR XP burden. Adding Iconics to the cycle is also good. However, this system seems to be favorable to new players at the expense of heavily penalizing established players. The trade-off balance is therefore off.
I can see how being able to convert earned ED levels into Heroic ranks seems like a good tradeoff to devs, but given the XP curve of lower levels it doesn't really offer much for the extreme penalty. I think the quickest way to fix it would be to allow players to karmic bond as many EDs as they want before TRing for purposes of retaining experience. Perhaps reversing the current implementation. If a player wants to gain Epic TR benefits they lose the ED experience in the selected TR ED tree, rather than all other trees.
Milacias of Kyber
Leader of the Crimson Eagles Kyber
I didnt grind out all my destinies simply to grind the damned things out, you need the levels so you can twist in things worth a damn. Thats my only problem with it, if you TR your destinies you are looking at millions (a lot of millions) of EXP to be able to twist anything again. All while being in a non optimal ED making the process even harder and the stupid damned bell more attractive in blades.
Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art19), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic6)
How would you feel if you have all eds capped and if you want to tr you will lose it all?
Just makes you wonder what will they do next, whats the point in playing if Im not making any progress.
Making progress is part of the fun.
No need to gloom and doom. We do not know what is the exact implementation yet.
Even if we do loose Epic XP, may be that is intentional since most of our Epic XP may be from House of Rusted Blades, House of the Undying, Impoossible Demands or Jungles of Khyber. May be the intent of the developers (our DMs) here do not think that those Epic XP earned there is deemed appropriate for Epic TR.
When I ran the above quests on epic normal, I was probably using less than 1% of my brain; perhaps even turned off into a zombie or stasis state. It was boring, mind numbing and essentially not fun. We probably can recite Master Teblyn words backwards in our dreams.
It is our choice whether we follow the design of the developers or not. We can either keep our existing 4/2/1 twists and Epic XP or Epic TR and gained those Epic Destiny Past Lives.
BTW, I talked to the developer of The House of Rusted Blades. He said he made a quest that everyone loved to run but he said he did not intend it to be such an easy completion and being used for Epic Destiny grinding. There you go, folks, from the horse's mouth.
With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility
This also begs the question: if this is the long-term plan is to encourage TRing and ED grinding, how jacked up will the endgame have to be to satisfy both TR players and players who just want to get toons to 28 with an ED or 2? Either that's going to be a really wide gap or so narrow it doesn't make sense to bother TRing.
The proposal has some good ideas and some poor ideas for change.
The major issue I see is taking away what has already been earned, i.e. Epic Destinies and Fate Twists (although Twists are not mentioned either by oversight or deliberately). Poor business decision to take away what a customer has already earned, imo.
This seems another example of Lucy-Turbine pulling the football away from Charlie-Player.
There is no free lunch.
The grind is entirely self-imposed. People decide they "have to" have 9 past lives or a specific piece of gear or a +4 tome, and then they spend hours miserably chasing these things, none of which are necessary. Much like people who obsess over material goods in the real world, they've lost track of the entire point, which is to enjoy the time you are spending, not be miserable in the hopes that you'll be happy later on.
If you want to continue building then give us more EDs or levels or another mechanism to include the work you have already put in. Starting over to do the same unused destinies again is stupid.
But ultimately, the problem here is not one inherent to the new system that has been proposed. The problem is that less than a year ago Turbine told players "This is the new it! And don't worry about ever loosing the XP, it is entirely compatible with TRing. So go ahead and grind out your Twists of Fate, that progress will never be removed." Now they are coming back and saying "You remember when I said 'never' before? I meant 'never (tm)'. But it's alright. You see, since we are giving you the raw anal treatment on this we are throwing in a reach around with the 'Epic Advantage'! You can turn that grind that you did, either mind numbing or extremely long, into the major advantage of skipping the first few levels on your next TR! That is an 'advantage' of saving a handful of hours leveling at the point where good content is plentiful and things aren't grindy yet! Isn't that wonderful?!"
It is extremely amateur to introduce game systems without the design direction and planning to realize that these game systems will be invalidated a year later. The exact same thing happened with their Armor Class system which they touted as 'making all AC values valuable, even if you do not max it out'. Only the formula that they chose makes it so that once monster to-hit reaches around twice player's reasonably achievable AC, that AC becomes absolutely useless. So through stat glut we are back in the exact same position that the systems change was said to have fixed. Exact same issue, tacking flawed and short sighted new systems onto a seven year old game without thinking through what will happen to them as the game continues to grow.
Had this Epic True Reincarnation idea even been mentioned when Epic Destinies were introduced the reaction here would have been entirely different. The system as outlined in Producer Glin's post does not seem like a bad one, just one that throws players who adopted Update 14's Epic Destiny system right away under the bus. The way that it was tacked onto the existing ED system after the fact is punitive to established players. Even more so with the upcoming release of the Enhancement Trees, in which the effect of your Race choice will be changing greatly. And not all at once either, but it would appear that some Racial Classes such as Elf and Half Elf will be available at launch while others are rolled out over time. Adjusting your race to fit the new system being crammed in will now mean choosing between having a well built character, or wasting a massive amount of time just to get back to where you already are.
It seems like Turbine has tried to address the way that this system penalizes existing players with the 'Epic Advantage' idea, where lost ED ranks become heroic ranks. The way that they chose to do so, however, shows a massive disconnect between designers and players. No one wants to skip the first few levels of a TR. Even if the XP curve is flattened out and those first few levels pick up some of the XP that has been rear loaded up until this point, those levels are still extremely fast and easy.
There is a wide range of choices as to how this new situation could be addressed. At one end of the spectrum is this meaningless token 'advantage' that Turbine has worked into the new system, which is really more insulting than rewarding. At the other end of the spectrum would be something like grandfathering in any Epic Destinies that are already capped when this new system goes live, which would not give Turbine the desired result of getting people to recycle existing content for longer periods of time. There have been quite a few suggestions made already about options that lie between these two, such as giving a 'level stone' that can be used when the player wishes to get the XP needed to jump over one level for each ED that they had capped out when they eTRed. Or they could give the TRed character a bonus on all Heroic XP earned for the next life based on how many ED levels were lost. Anything that spreads the advantage over the later levels, rather than front loading it where people do not want it.
Last edited by ForumAccess; 06-13-2013 at 11:12 AM.
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