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  1. #41
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Funny that I've never noticed any need to grind a thing since I started playing.

    The grind is entirely self-imposed. People decide they "have to" have 9 past lives or a specific piece of gear or a +4 tome, and then they spend hours miserably chasing these things, none of which are necessary. Much like people who obsess over material goods in the real world, they've lost track of the entire point, which is to enjoy the time you are spending, not be miserable in the hopes that you'll be happy later on.
    Do you stay on Korthos and never advance your character?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    This sounds like something said without realizing just how much XP it takes to grind out full Epic Destinies.
    No, it's something said recognizing that the decision to grind out full epic destinies is a choice, not a requirement.

    I agree that Turbine should not set up a system where people are led to believe a particular method building characters makes sense, and then radically change it. But the idea that this grinding is required is complete bunk.

    Grinding is only necessary for people who create self-invented competitions between themselves and other players. The world doesn't actually end if you don't have every destiny fully maxed out. In fact, you might have more fun just playing the game rather than always trying to grind out some vision of a "perfect character".

    The problem with people getting upset over losing XP is mostly tied to the fact that they didn't have fun getting the XP in the first place. That's partially Turbine's fault, but a lot of it rests on the players themselves.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    ...they've lost track of the entire point, which is to enjoy the time you are spending, not be miserable in the hopes that you'll be happy later on.
    Don't forget transubstantiation! Wars have been fought for less.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Do you stay on Korthos and never advance your character?
    What does that have to do with anything?

    I advance my character all the time. I do it by running quests that I think will be fun or that will be rewarding.

    I do not grind the same quests over and over. I do not TR just to accumulate past lives to get a +1 somethingorotherthatwillbeusefulatendgame.

    I play the game as a game -- to have fun. On occasion I do a minor bit of grinding, such as one life when I really wanted to unsuppress the IQ docent, but it's limited and I recognize that it's my choice to do it. If I ever found myself spending dozens of hours doing something I hated, I'd quit -- I have enough chores to do in the real world.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    What does that have to do with anything?
    Oh, pay no attention to Teh_Troll. He's grumpy and impatient. Feeding him from the back porch just encourages him and your screen door will end up in tatters.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  6. #46
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    Default Chai calls it

    Yes Chai, once again you got it correct. Nag factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    1. Insert arbitrary unreasonably long grind, for no other reason than making it longer.
    2. Wait it out - lots of complaints occur. Eventually complaints die down to a minimum.
    3. Insert paid method of mitigating arbitrary unreasonably long grind into store.
    4. ???
    5. Profit. The players rejoice.

    As TR occurred, so shall epic TR. Soon enough most people will forget the entire fact that the only reason people want to pay to mitigate the grind is because of the arbitrary irritation designed into it, as they express their full support of allowing us to pay to save time.

    With no raid, I was wondering what was going to replace timer bypass as the money maker. We just found out.
    RTFM on Khyber, Toy Soldiers.

    Toy Soldiers PD Roll Builds Guild on Wayfinder.

  7. #47
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    Oh, pay no attention to Teh_Troll. He's grumpy and impatient. Feeding him from the back porch just encourages him and your screen door will end up in tatters.
    Hmmm . . . now I need lunch.

  8. #48
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvirini View Post
    According to https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...TR#post5020407

    We will lose our epic XP if we do not epic TR and instead TR normally, that is really going to hurt a lot. (as in No more TRing)

    It's a PROPOSED change. They've requested feedback on it in the thread announcing it. It isn't scheduled to happen any time soon (as in 2013).


    Even if the change is eventually implemented as originally posted (and what ever has been, frankly?), it won't affect serial TR players who don't care about EDs. So it is hardly 'the end' of TRing for those players.

    The players who would seem to be affected most are the folks who ground out a ton (or all) their EDs already and still want to TR.

  9. #49
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Hmmm . . . now I need lunch.
    /coats turbine hq in something smelly

    Get'em troll

  10. #50
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post

    Grinding is only necessary for people who create self-invented competitions between themselves and other players. The world doesn't actually end if you don't have every destiny fully maxed out. In fact, you might have more fun just playing the game rather than always trying to grind out some vision of a "perfect character".

    The problem with people getting upset over losing XP is mostly tied to the fact that they didn't have fun getting the XP in the first place. That's partially Turbine's fault, but a lot of it rests on the players themselves.

    Very well said. The loudest and most vocal opponents of this change so far seem to be the players who had to run HotRB 10,000 times to max their EDs. Now that they are presented with the OPTION of a sligh increase in power (what +2 build points and a fate point?) for the sacrifice of 80% of their ED xps vs not ETRing, they freak out ("TRINGISDEADIQUIT!!") because somehow refraining from ETRing isn't a valid choice.


    Do I personally LOVE the proposed changes as they stand? No. But it won't affect 80-90% of the way I play and I'll adapt for the other 10-20%. There is some really good feedback in the epic TR thread, but you have to wade through a lot of wailing and hand flailing to see it. Hopefully someone at Turbine has the patience for that.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    The players who would seem to be affected most are the folks who ground out a ton (or all) their EDs already and still want to TR.
    I have a helf 2nd life FVS with maxed out epic destinies. After the enhancement pass hits, I think human would be a much better match for the build/what I do with that toon. I'm working on other projects/toons right now and I would rather not try to grind out that particular TR... right now.

    But TR is the only way to change race, and now the cost to do a TR will be much... much higher.

  12. #52
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    The loudest and most vocal opponents of this change so far seem to be the players who had to run HotRB 10,000 times to max their EDs.
    I am opposed, and that is NOT now I earned my EDs. Many people are opposed, for a variety of reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Now that they are presented with the OPTION of a sligh increase in power (what +2 build points and a fate point?) for the sacrifice of 80% of their ED xps vs not ETRing, they freak out ("TRINGISDEADIQUIT!!") because somehow refraining from ETRing isn't a valid choice.
    Continuing my completionist path and Epic TR'ing sounds very fun, and I'd love to do it, but losing all prior achieved ED XP seems just too painful. Choosing to lose what has already been gained just to explore a new avenue of the game is not worth it, and I wouldn't want to keep playing knowing I was missing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Do I personally LOVE the proposed changes as they stand? No. But it won't affect 80-90% of the way I play
    So, it's good for you but not good for me. Turbine needs to realize that whichever way they ultimately implement this, they risk alienating a large group of players.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  13. #53
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    The problem with epic advantage is....

    It take about 3 million xp to cap an epic destiny.

    So are they going to give me 3 million xp worth of ranks in heroic when I epic tr?

    Or will lvl 5 ED reset mean 5 ranks into lvl 1......

  14. #54
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    The problem with epic advantage is....

    It take about 3 million xp to cap an epic destiny.

    So are they going to give me 3 million xp worth of ranks in heroic when I epic tr?

    Or will lvl 5 ED reset mean 5 ranks into lvl 1......
    Nah, they will give you 1 rank for 1 ed lvl

  15. #55
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    On topic.
    My favorite part is how they make "we're going to nerf you into the last ice age!" into a cheerful advertisement and act almost as if they believed it's gives some benefit to the players.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Funny that I've never noticed any need to grind a thing since I started playing.

    The grind is entirely self-imposed. People decide they "have to" have 9 past lives or a specific piece of gear or a +4 tome, and then they spend hours miserably chasing these things, none of which are necessary. Much like people who obsess over material goods in the real world, they've lost track of the entire point, which is to enjoy the time you are spending, not be miserable in the hopes that you'll be happy later on.
    That's how nirvana works...
    But you should know, the enlightenment is not for everyone.

  16. #56
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    This is how I read it (I don't have the stomach for reading the entire linked thread and would only be interested in developer comments anyhow - so I'm open to correction if more dev comments are in the thread):

    Epic Destiny True Reincarnation

    Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)
    Grants an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat
    Feat based on active, maximized Epic Destiny

    Karmic Bond -The active ED’s experience is now bonded through each ED True Reincarnation going forward
    Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)
    You must have a maximized, non-bonded ED to complete this TR
    Adds 2 build points up to a 38 point build
    On its face, is this really that stomach churning?

    Let's say I start a new project:

    1. Take toon to the new cap 28, maxing maybe 1 to 2 destinies along the way. There is a mention about adjusting the ED XP curve so maybe I'll cap 3 -5 destinies to 28 naturally.
    2. Select an active ED then ED TR and Karmic bond whatever the active destiny is. The ED destiny is now bonded permanently, so I never have to re-earn that particular ED XP again (makes sense, because ED past life is not said to stack).
    3. Remaining ED XP gives ranks at my next life.
    4. Get back to 28, maxing another 3 - 5 destinies just as a course of getting to 28.
    5. Select an 2nd active ED then ED TR and Karmic bond whatever the active destiny is. The 2nd ED destiny is now bonded permanently as well, so I never have to re-earn that particular ED XP again (makes sense, because ED past life is not said to stack).
    6. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

    I can see how this is in a sense a fair way to run the TR system in the future with EDs, and it seems more balanced than the way it works now. Now, as for all the people that already capped destinies so that they are instant powerhouses when they hit 20, which includes some of my toons, so yes, ours are probably the sacrificial XP lambs so that a better overall system can be moved to. In other words, you'll have to work fairly hard to get to the point where just getting to 20 gives you access to the entire active ED structure.

    Of course, you're not going to be able to grind XP like you do today because the repeat decay will set in.

  17. #57
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    It isn't scheduled to happen any time soon (as in 2013).
    WRONG!
    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Later this year (targeting Update 20) we look forward to introducing two new TR destinations, Epic Destiny True Reincarnation and Iconic True Reincarnation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Even if the change is eventually implemented as originally posted (and what ever has been, frankly?), it won't affect serial TR players who don't care about EDs. So it is hardly 'the end' of TRing for those players.
    This is pure speculation, but I suspect it's a quite small segment of the population that does "serial" TRing and doesn't care about epic destanies. Nice to know Turbine will at least not step on some of it's players, assuming the enhancement pass doesn't negatively effect the "destiny disinterested serial TRers."

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    The players who would seem to be affected most are the folks who ground out a ton (or all) their EDs already and still want to TR.
    Your darn right. And I haven't done it by farming any particular quest to death and back, I've done it by leveling one destiny per life accross the span of TRing multiple lives. And now they want me to do that exact same thing again, on the same character!? Don't know how much play time you have, for me that was just over a year of working on this one character (my cleric). The first I would have ("would have" because my destinies are almost done, and I only have 3 lives left to go) that has become "the best that it can be." I was looking forward to working on a new character, knowing (apparently that was assuming - wrongly) that as power creep increased, it (my cleric) would only need minor touch ups to stay "at the top of it's game," not a whole 'nother 6 months to a year. F-that-S.

    I (don't) like how you make that last statement so dismissively. I deffinately catch a tone of "doesn't effect me, just them, so it's really not a problem."
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 06-13-2013 at 02:49 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  18. #58
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Something else here, if you have never capped all yoru EDS before then really you dont ahve a lot of experience to speak to those of us who have of exactly how "easy" it is. I can tell you this, 3rd life toon to 20 is hella easier than capping all yoru destinies and that is a fact jack.

  19. #59
    Community Member DogMania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    It's a PROPOSED change. . It isn't scheduled to happen any time soon (as in 2013).

    +++++ WRONG+++++++
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...TR#post5020407

  20. #60
    Community Member DogMania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    How do you play the game when you max everything? Maxed all EDs, maxed level. What is your goal now? They only moved your goal far away to keep you playing.
    How about to help others?

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