Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)
Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)
Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)
What are heroic ranks in this case??With any type of True Reincarnation, all Epic Destiny Levels earned will give you an advantage when you rebuild your character, by converting Destiny Levels into Heroic Ranks. Every level of Epic Destiny you have earned will count toward ranks earned for your next life. (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)
I have a 25 sorc with 9 capped destinies and about to cap the last two... if he tr's I loose everything and I get HEROIC RANKS??
If I TR him NOW; and the update comes out and he reaches 20, does het gets his ED as is?
If he does, he'll do one last TR, else he will never ever ever ever ever TR again ever after in all eternity. And beyond.
*sigh* and I had such TR plans for him
If Turbine still goes down the inanely stupid road of resetting destiny XP they might as well just unplug the servers. TRs will stop, the game will die.
The main problem is not that it's a bad idea, it's that it so royally screws everyone who's done a lot of TRing on existing characters AND who has gone ahead and maxed out their destinies. If they like to TR, they will probably *want* to epic TR, but doing so means losing a *lot* of investment to get, basically, nothing. Now, if "epic TR" just sets you back to 20, resetting destinies wouldn't be such a big deal because you'd be in a position to grind them out rapidly. 8 epic levels equates to about 3.5 destinies of xp, so you could chew through the epic TR's you want fairly rapidly without having to repeat all the heroic content yet again and by the time you have epic completionist (assuming you want it) you'd also have all your destinies re-bound.
If an epic TR is an entire heroic TR on top of the epic levels . . . ugh. That's seriously painful even if they dramatically fix the XP curve. I put a lot of effort into my two main toons--one is a Completionist and the other has 17 past lives and is going to BE completionist soon. I look forward to whatever epic TR brings to the table but I sure don't look forward to doing another 13+ full lives on each of these toons.
I'm not looking to make heroic TRing into a mess, though, which might be problematic if epic TR resets you to 20. Will you get the benefit of a heroic TR? Will the epic TR benefits make the heroic TR benefits look like a joke? Heroic TR keeps the lower levels of the game full of experienced people who can either help or be a serious annoyance to newbies, but that's one of the big things that makes DDO different from other games. A few months after release the newbie areas in other MMO's tend to be EMPTY. This isn't the case in DDO.
Maybe some sort of compromise could be reached that allows for an enjoyable Epic TR but doesn't completely trash heroic TR. Maybe make it so that you can choose whether to start at 20 and just get the Epic TR bennie OR to start at 1 and get BOTH an epic TR bennie AND a heroic TR bennie?
I think some of the heroic past life feats for some of the classes could use some tweaking, by the way. With the new epic content and destinies they just aren't as desirable as they once were. Making them a little more attractive would go a long way toward ensuring that the new system doesn't completely override the old one.
Thelanis player: Lehren (heroic/epic completionist), Kimberlei (heroic/epic completionist), Natheme, Daiahn, Arrekeh
Turbine again tries to bottle **** as perfume
Just reposting for those not wanting to hunt thru 86 pages:
Best bet, hunt the Dev Tracker
Just for kicks, I'll quote them all from this thread:
Please note that the second paragraph, first line is should be read like thus:
We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation,
and we understand your concern about not getting enough in return.
so she flooded this thread.
This most important part is "and other folks directly" but I will not elaborate further as I have an ancient NDA.
Will not comment further.
Someone else remarked that First Edition Rules allowed 99 levels for Humans, and an adventure pack actually used those levels.
Community Update discuses it as well.
Also DDO Chronicle Issues 48 and 49 encourages people to read and post here.
Really, Silver. Don't you ever sleep?
It looks like you are going to be this thread's good shepherd until this thing goes live or fizzles.
Je ne suis pas
DDO Alpha Tester
As you can see, there has been a massive outrage against deleting the epic destiny xp. Even if we get the option of making them into heroic ranks, it's still very, VERY outrageous.
What I'm proposing is an alternative that might just be better for everyone, the players, the programmers, the developers, and even the people who want to make money off the game. For EVERYONE.
Instead of deleting the epic destinies, and forcing someone to do epic TRs to be able to get epic TR feats and such (which would totally waste the twists of fates' purpose, btw), why not giving a bonus for maxing an epic destiny tree and TRing AND not delete all the other EDs?
I was thinking something along the lines of every maxed ED tree when TRed gets a tier 5 or 6 and an innate ability of the "locked" ED - even in heroic levels? Of course, only one epic destiny feat per epic destiny tree. Or something to that pattern. That way, we can still use the other epic destiny's twists, AND the tier 5/6 of a "TRed" ED tree. It would give a huuuuuge motive to do epic TRs, as well as not totally ruin the ED trees for everyone else.
For clarifications sake, every life you do you can pick an epic destiny feat at max tier - let's call it Fate Pinnacle. You get to keep your other EDs, trees xp, fate points, twists and all. But the Fate Pinnacle of the ED tree you pick allows you to retain your tier 5/6 (and maybe an innate?) freely chosen (like a multiple path selector) as a feat - FOREVER (heroic levels included when you TR). So, during heroic levels we can get a Fate Pinnacle moment (epic moments off the tier 6s =D). And when we hit epic levels once more, our twists of Fate and epic destinies kick in once more.
This proposal should be subject to some fine-tuning, though. But, basically, that's my suggestion. Make maxed ED TRing worth the time via Fate Pinnacle feats (name needs working on, I know), at the same time not deleting all the time, effort, money, etc spent by folks who maxed out EDs for their twists during epic levels.
Just a thought.
From the guy who thought up of physical resistance.
The servers seem very under populated at the moment. As a European based player I can’t recall a time where player numbers dropped so significantly so fast. There is very little activity Euro prime time compared to a couple of months ago.
Personally I think this announcement i.e. loss of epic destiny, combined with the enhancement pass preview and Never Winter game is the reason.
I sincerely hope that Turbine will think again on their plans or at least announce that current destines will be locked i.e. not deleted.
My main character is on 8th life. Currently level 22 .All epic destinies capped. The servers are so empty of epic LFM, excluding destiny farm that my only option for this character at this time is to park it, to spend 20 minutes filling group each time or to TR it.
But i beginning to feel that any more time spent playing DDO is a waste of time as I’m pretty sure loss of epic destiny will make me never TR again so quit playing.
Please note that my character is a healer and I advertise every quest that I do o the LFM and most groups are not filling. My main is well known good reputation healer.
I enjoy TR and heroic level 1-20. But for sure the loss of all capped epic destiny means that I won’t TR my main again. I’m not interested in TR and start at level 12. Start at level 12 is no compensation to me for loss of epic destiny.
In fact the worst part of TR for me and many others is level 18-20 million + of XP for 2 levels is not fun.
Pretty much all my other characters are at cap except 2 bank mules that I have no interest in levelling.
So for me loss of epic destiny is a game breaker.
I can only surmise that this is the same for many others due to the drastic fall in population. I am quite sure that this change as proposed will not be the end of DDO game. Some people will always hang onto old declining games no matter what.
But it will be the end of DDO for me. I won’t TR my main again. All my others are capped and I won’t TR them. I don’t want to see the time and effort that i put into gaining epic destinies deleted. There really isn’t any way to compensate me for this deletion of my time and effort.
This is not a rant or a threat to quit .Just a simple explanation of how I personally feel about the changes proposed. I suspect that I am not alone based on declining server population and 86 pages of moan in this thread.
Please Turbine think again and at least announce that current characters will not be subject to any destiny loss because if you don’t do something to allay the fears of existing customers , player numbers will continue to decline.
"Player testers have done an excelent job and I really do appreciate the testing done by the players that report the issues which then get ignored ......."
I think the best solution would be...
After epic TR, loose all xp from one (1) selected destiny. IF that destiny was capped, receive an epic past-life feat.
Example 1: My 20 FvS is level 28 with all destinies capped. 20 fate points (with tome). I select Exalted Angel and epic TR. Exalted Angel drops to 0 xp. I restart with (another) FvS passive past life. When I hit level 20 I can reopen my destinies and start earning within Exalted Angel again. Still have all the other destinies capped, still have 18 fate points.
Example 2: My 12 Mnk/7 Druid/1 Ftr reaches level 28 with 3 Primal/4Shiradi/4 Dreadnaught/5 Grandmaster. I select Grandmaster. After epic TR as a Wiz, I get the monk PL feat. When I reach 20 Wiz I can open destinies with 3 Primal/4 Shiradi/4 Dread. I get the Grandmaster PL feat. I can open any tree in the arcane, melee or primal areas, but no access to divine until I earn 4 Grandmaster again.
Your proposed system is not actually bad, however, the way it interacts with the Fate Point/Twist system is very, very, very bad.
Here's the essence of the problem, from my point of view: playing in the 'wrong' destiny is just not fun.
I've tried grinding ID 800 times and I've tried actually questing (much slower), but neither is any fun at all. I think the whole Fate Point system is broken. The whole thing is so bad, I actually designed an entire build around starting at the destiny I wanted and moving around the tree efficiently and then TRing to the build I actually wanted to end up with. I did this twice. Well, I thought that destiny xp would persist through TR.
I would never be happy trading destiny xp for heroic xp. Not everybody enjoys heroic xp as much as I do, but everybody loathes the destiny grind. That would not be a solution for me. Grinding the destinies was too painful. You need to let me keep my twists, keep my tree options, and continue to progress my characters.
The way to truly fix this is to try to change the system so that playing destinies is fun. But unfortunately you are committed to the current system I think. Making it fun would require a total overhaul.
I love DDO, and I will never 'quit', but... I think the last two years of development have been epic fail. EDs are no good: bugged, imbalanced, grindy. The new enhancements are no good: bugged, incomplete, over complicated and tons of dumb things you have to buy to get the good stuff.
I hadn't played for 3.5 months, came back for two weeks, and found this. All my 10 characters are capped, just waiting for the new enhancements so I can start to adapt them. I was going to work on their destinies a bit this month. Well, reading all this I can see there's no point. I'm taking another break for a month and I'll be back when the expansion is out to see if there's any reason to continue playing.
*During this break time, I will not be buying Turbine Points.*
Last edited by Deadnettle; 07-28-2013 at 03:59 PM.
Aha... oh this is a good April Fools joke to say the least! That is, if it were April Fools. This is by far the worst update avid, long-time DDO players have seen in recent history. Turbine shouldn't think for one second that they are doing something great here. I don't care what you do: I'm not paying to KEEP my epic destinies on TR, which BY THE WAY if you haven't noticed, I ALREADY paid for!
Absolute joke, I will either not TR anymore, or find a game that doesn't require players to pay just to keep their hard-earned work.
Idea time! ::::::::
I think that getting rid of all the EDs upon TRing is a terrible idea. I think that, rather than making this an automatic process, that you should be able to SELECT the ED's you want to convert into XP for your next life. "Hey, I'ma sorc, and next life I'ma barb! I obviously don't need the Draconic ED anymore, so leme trash that and get a little head-start on my next life's leveling, but that the same time, I get to keep my Fury ED. Definitely not going to scrap that one. But I don't really need Exalted Angel either, and that would give me a boost..." You see what I'm trying to say here? Let the player choose which ED to convert to next life's XP. If they don't want to convert any, let them keep all of em! If they want to convert all and get a huge boost, great! If they only want to convert those that will not help in their next life, great! They still get a boost.
Last edited by Clemeit; 07-28-2013 at 05:56 PM.
Or just get rid of the Epic Advantage ****, nyahahaha!
Seriously. If you want people to play more epic content, then make the epic content fun - not force them to do endless grinds (once more - especially after you delete their ED xp).
If you want folks to buy epic hearts of wood, why not just make the epic hearts of wood "wipe-out" ED xp except for a locked destiny tree, giving a past life destiny feat based on the locked tree, AND make them level 20 again, fresh for a new epic content grind BUT with a new epic past life destiny feat? It might give more incentive to do the grind once more IN EPIC CONTENT (someone said that you want players to play more epic content, right?) without affecting those who DO NOT WANT their epic destinies to be wiped out of all existence wasting their time and effort into getting them (rambled on a bit there). This would affect only the epic content, as that's the content that this planned update seems so focused upon.
That's another serious suggestion. Make an Epic Advantage an actual advantage in epic content. Make those past life destiny feats really awesome (like keeping the entire locked tree available as long as the feat is active - make it a chosen feat so we don't have epic folks running around in tree form doing fury and in master's blitz doing dragon fly-bys all over the place). But leave it in epic content (levels 21 to 28, if you will).
Please don't punish the rest of us who want to do heroic content without losing the hard-earned destinies when we reach 20 again. Please.
Don't set your plan in stone. Do away with your proposed epic advantage. Frankly, it sucks. Whoever thought of it should be forced to grind our epic destinies all over again. Sorry if that insulted the person who thought of it - but seriously, what were you thinking?! Oo, delete their xp. GOOD PLAN! Really? REEEEALLY!?
Turbine: Bravely blurring the line between customer and addict.
Eighty-six pages of mostly the same people saying the same thing over and over again.
I have no idea what Turbine envisions doing with this. Whatever the initial concept, it has been lost in the page after page of Chicken Little commentary.
What I originally understood was that greater reincarnation was going to go away, lesser reincarnation was going to change to incorporate elements of greater reincarnation, true reincarnation was going to remain for characters L20+ and a new epic reincarnation was going to be introduced.
As far as I could tell, the idea was that players could advance their build point totals via reincarnation presuming that they had met specific criteria. Unlocking 32 point builds via favor would cause LR to invoke the GR effect that is on live now. Going thru a TR would open up 34 and 36 point builds just as it now does. Taking an ER (not necessarily the best abbreviation) would let characters get 38 point builds and also gave some epic based perks by converting epic XP to heroic XP (allowing characters to by-pass releveling and to jump into epic content again almost immediately).
It seemed to me that nothing forced the ER. Nothing forced the loss of epic destinies or epic XP. Players were still being given the chance to TR and retain what they had. The trade off -- they had to level up from L1 to L20 running all the heroic content and they were limited to the 36 point builds. That seemed fair, it is what we have already. And, I suppose some people like running all the old quests over and over again.
OTOH, players could choose to take the ER. Yes, they lost epic XP and epic destinies had to be reaquired. But they skipped all or most of the heroic content. They picked up other feats or characteristics based on past epic lives. That seems fair too.
I think that a system that lets me choose how to reincarnate is great. I'm much more likely to choose the ER if it means skipping all the heroic levels. I'm less likely to grind out epic destinies if I know that doing so isn't going to be useful until I'm settled in on my "this is me forever" build. Completionist -- both heroic and epic -- becomes something worth pursuing, as do multiple lives.
And, dropping the cooldown on the reincarnation counter to 3 days means that I can knock out past lives if that is where my focus really is.
I'm in favor of the idea. I'll be interested to see a more complete reveal. But, I hope it will be in a thread where the "OMG it is change, must be bad" Chicken Littles of DDO haven't given us eighty plus pages of falling skies to wade thru in order to try and figure out what the developers really have in mind.
I would imagine the rational end result will be that when a player CHOOSES to ER (i'm going with the abrev.), said player can also CHOOSE to trade-in one or more capped destiny paths to get a jump on the new life. IE: starting at lvl 10 or the like.
All seems fairly straight forward to me. Makes sense. And I guess the logical extension would be that the destiny you trade in directly relates to the epic past life feat you get.
**checks the sky** yep still up
I think some of this is somewhat scary given the changes to TRing AND the changes to Enhancements. Some players have spent quite a bit of time making "perfect" builds, look into the people that can Solo EE everything even raids. I have played with people that have sick builds and other players ask "how do I do that?". Soon all of this will change, maybe? There are a lot of questions, that are going un-answered and that breeds fear.
Do I lose all Fate Points?
Do I lose sphere access and thus have to re-level to get to the other Destinies again?
Can I just Heroic TR when I have Epic Destinies?
Epic TR mentions being at level cap (28)...so I could max the EDs, camp at lvl 27, and then Heroic TR like the current system?
Can we have an idea of what the Epic PLs might be?
Can we have an idea of what the Iconic PLs might be?
Do I TR before the change?
Some people have been burned before, DT pajamas were great before MoTU changed AC and added PR. The cool weapon you grinded to get got an upgrade after the augment pass, oops just grind it again. We changed how Epic Items are created, no more farming quests to get a scroll, seal, and shard. Just run on EH or EE for a stronger item.
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