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  1. #1581

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    Here's a whacky idea for epic tring:

    1) Disconnect fate points from destinies altogether. Give fate point xp its own bar, like epic levels and destinies have their own bars. So purple epic level bar, yellow destiny bar, and green fate xp bar.

    2) All unbonded destiny xp is wiped each epic tr, but fate xp is permanent, never to be wiped by any means.

    3) You can only earn xp into 1 bar at a time. From level 20-28, you only earn epic level xp. Once (and not until) you max your epic level, you start earning destiny xp in your active destiny. Once (and not until) that destiny is maxed you start earning xp in your fate xp bar. If you switch your active destiny to an unmaxed destiny, you stop earning fate xp and start earning destiny xp for that destiny.

    4) Epic tr would then require a) capping your epic levels, and b) capping at least one destiny. No xp is ever "wasted" because every xp you earn always goes into 1 of the 3 bars until you have the maximum fate points, which would be tens of millions of xp. Grinding out twists in off-destinies would become a tiny, trivial part of fate point grinding because you'd only have to do off destinies long enough to unlock the actual abilities you wanted to twist in.

  2. #1582
    Community Member Thud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Woot?!!?

    How neglectful of me, allowing real life to interfere with...

    Hmmm....what was I doing here anyway?

    A riot of sorts, what was Fawn rioting about?

    Oh this:


    Chin up mate.

    Very few people even began to consider the candy stealing wipe of ED xp.

    The few who realized it would be grand opportunity to farm 40+ fate points
    per life someday had their hopes dashed by the Devs stating they would not
    allow that.

    So we took up our pitchfork and torches and rioted, and I guess we still are.

    Fortunately our rioting resulted in this concession:



    The Devs have also acknowledge a major proposal by DDOcast.



    There are numerous other proposals but all center on one point,
    trying to steer the Devs away from the massive destruction of their Epic Disadvantage brainstorming idea.

    Perhaps the call of the villagers at the moment would be "Vote NO to proposal ONE!"

    Here have a torch and pitchfork, and hope the Devs steer away from this dreadful prospect...
    Yea, I've been playing for years now and would be hard pressed to drop my investment, time and money. Thanks for the nice info. I don't think I could have brought myself to sift through 70 pages to find it. I think I'll go read something a little less disturbing, maybe the latest on the IRS
    Groz, Almostthere, Medicant and Harvezzt. Argo RULES!

  3. #1583
    Community Member Thud's Avatar
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    NO ON ONE!!!

    Edit: I feel better now that I haven't had to write 50 posts over the past 6 years to post pics
    Last edited by Thud; 06-20-2013 at 01:44 AM.
    Groz, Almostthere, Medicant and Harvezzt. Argo RULES!

  4. #1584
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Yes on one!

    I love the idea of an XP bank system at level cap that I can use on a heroic TR.


    YES on option 1!
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  5. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Epic Destiny True Reincarnation is defined as happening at level cap, not at level 28.

    If/when the level cap is increased beyond 28, so will the requirement. Yes, this means it's potentially quicker or easier if you do it sooner.

    That's our current thinking. This doesn't necessarily mean it will go on and on and on to level 999, but the important bit is that it's not tied to level 28.
    hmmm, I'd assume that "epic level cap" would eventually be tied to whichever maximum level that will belong to the so-called "epic tier", so potentially either level 30 or 40 ?

  6. #1586
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I love the idea of an XP bank system at level cap that I can use on a heroic TR.


    YES on option 1!
    no on one,

    yes on two would make me start playing again. I quit when this was announced and won't be back till I hear it's something close to two or you've scraped the entire concept and aren't messing with things that aren't broken.

  7. #1587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Unfortunately, this is a myth.

    Grind is optional. Farming high XP/min quests is most definitely the most time-efficient way of gaining XP, but this doesn't suit everyone. Luckily you don't need to do this.

    To prove this point, for my 40th life, we decided to:
    1. do every quest once and once only ... you have no idea how much pain this caused me to leave Shadow Crypt after only one run, but them's the rules
    2. do challenges just once to try and get as many stars as possible and the first time XP bonusses that come with them - we skipped kobold island challenges completely because they're a pain without a full party of arcanes to keep the crystals repaired
    3. tag each explorer for each wilderness area on a single run, check for rares but not reset and repeat to try and get them all, and just pick up whatever slayers we got in the process
    4. not drink any XP pots, not even the ones you get from House Cannith challenges or turning in Eberron Dragonshards

    Now both myself and my regular TR buddy have the Greater Learning Tome from the MotU expansion. I'm a VIP, but he isn't so I get the extra 10% XP from that, but he doesn't. As a VIP I get all of the volumes in the Monster Manual but he's missing the latest one I think. So I did pick up more XP from the Monster Manual in the process than he did.

    The end result was that we both reached 20 without having to repeat a single quest, just by doing an Elite Streak. We ended up banking levels and ended up having to level to avoid wasting XP, which unfortunately meant we didn't get the Elite Streak bonus for those quests. We skipped the Lords of Dust chain completely and just came back to do it on Epic because the Epic XP is so good. Probably half of the raids we didnt' have a party at-level for so we skipped those too. It's definitely not the fastest life I've ever done, but we proved it's doable. Also, when you don't have an XP Pot burning away, you're much more relaxed about taking your time through the quests, so I'm confident a semi-capable party of 3rd lifers could maintain their elite streak at least until level 18.

    So I'm afraid grind is 100% optional. You might be missing an adventure pack but that's something you can fix.
    I play pretty much like this ALL the time (though I do occasionally repeat some of the more rewarding quests)

    The main drawback, unless you have friends to do it with, is that you end up soloing 80+ % of the time ...

    FWIW, I've a level 20 2nd lifer with a sort of intact leet streak (but his 2nd life started before the leet streaks were implemented) ... (so no, I don't play him that often ; and leet groups for epics at levels 20-21 seem a bit scarce on the ground ; but I'll see if I can't keep his streak up all the way to cap)

  8. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natashaelle View Post
    hmmm, I'd assume that "epic level cap" would eventually be tied to whichever maximum level that will belong to the so-called "epic tier", so potentially either level 30 or 40 ?
    Well, if Turbine (and WotC) want to return to the old school, level 36+ were the Immortal levels.

  9. #1589
    Community Member visibleman's Avatar
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    Default This is how it should be

    TOTALLY OPTIONAL

    When I TR at 28 I should be able to choose:

    1. Keep all my Destiny progress (and Fate Points) exactly as they are
    2. Trade in Some or All of the Destiny progress (and therefore the unlocked Fate Points) for perks:

      - Incomplete Destinies when traded in generate Heroic XP.

      - When trading in a Capped Destiny, I should be able to choose either Heroic XP or an Epic PL feat.


    As long as it is my choice, this is good.


    Fate Points pain.

    One other thing. If you want to encourage players to cash in their ED progress - you need to change the rate at which Fate points are gained. The key word here, that is causing all this anger, is GRIND. Making it so that we have to Grind all the Destinies, just so we can twist in a couple of useful abilities, makes ED's un-fun.



    Your Job, Turbine Dev's, is to balance the value of the PL Feats and XP conversion, against the value of keeping the ED's intact.


    PS, doing this will sell the ED pack to more players
    Last edited by visibleman; 06-20-2013 at 04:37 AM.
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  10. #1590
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    Default I do not see the problem - just start in a different class for those ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusCleardawn View Post
    I find absolutely nothing fun about running epic content "off destiny" that is to say being in a destiny that isn't appropriate to my class but necessary for grinding Fate Points or unlocking adjacent destinies more appropriate to my class.
    Maybe I missed something there, but isn't the idea with the Epic TR that you will never do what you propose and take an "unappropriate" destiny for you class? Instead, you just do the one that fits you best, take the character to lvl 28/max the first destiny, and ETR into another character class, one that will fit with the destiny you feel you need to complete your build/get the twists/get access to the destiny you want "behind" that.

    The system seems pretty good actually, but it badly needs a solution for everyone who has already made a lot of ED investment to not be badly done by. Not sure how to achieve that though, it might need something like a special handout or bonding of multiple EDs or whatever for these players.

  11. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's a whacky idea for epic tring:

    1) Disconnect fate points from destinies altogether. Give fate point xp its own bar, like epic levels and destinies have their own bars. So purple epic level bar, yellow destiny bar, and green fate xp bar.

    2) All unbonded destiny xp is wiped each epic tr, but fate xp is permanent, never to be wiped by any means.

    3) You can only earn xp into 1 bar at a time. From level 20-28, you only earn epic level xp. Once (and not until) you max your epic level, you start earning destiny xp in your active destiny. Once (and not until) that destiny is maxed you start earning xp in your fate xp bar. If you switch your active destiny to an unmaxed destiny, you stop earning fate xp and start earning destiny xp for that destiny.

    4) Epic tr would then require a) capping your epic levels, and b) capping at least one destiny. No xp is ever "wasted" because every xp you earn always goes into 1 of the 3 bars until you have the maximum fate points, which would be tens of millions of xp. Grinding out twists in off-destinies would become a tiny, trivial part of fate point grinding because you'd only have to do off destinies long enough to unlock the actual abilities you wanted to twist in.
    I think you got the order wrong there. It would be much better to do the ED first so as to actually be able to run the content to get to the cap. Though then you run into the problem of using up all the content as repetition counters would be in effect.

    I just don't see how this is a really good plan as it either has you leveling up without actually keeping up with the content or running out of content before you level up.Which just points out one of the weaknesses of the whole ED system, there simply isn't enough content to use it without needing to go through multiple full lives or relying on repetition counters not being in effect due to hitting the xp cap for character level. Even with the repetition counters on hold, one ends up spending the majority of their time choosing between gaining more power or using the power they have already gained. Which really cuts into the entertainment factor of the game IMO.

  12. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I love the idea of an XP bank system at level cap that I can use on a heroic TR.


    YES on option 1!
    YES on option 1, if it includes the one-time multiple bonding of capped ED's on all first-time ETR's, regardless of time from implementation.

    Maybe 30-50% bonded with accompanying PL's commensurate with amount of XP relative to total epic XP for cap.
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

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  13. #1593
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vag1naSmasher View Post
    . . .
    Good day...
    Good day to you to.

    Love the name!

  14. #1594

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Woot!?!?!

    VOTE NO TO PROPOSAL ONE!
    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's a whacky idea for epic tring:

    1) Disconnect fate points from destinies altogether. Give fate point xp its own bar, like epic levels and destinies have their own bars. So purple epic level bar, yellow destiny bar, and green fate xp bar.

    2) All unbonded destiny xp is wiped each epic tr, but fate xp is permanent, never to be wiped by any means.

    3) You can only earn xp into 1 bar at a time. From level 20-28, you only earn epic level xp. Once (and not until) you max your epic level, you start earning destiny xp in your active destiny. Once (and not until) that destiny is maxed you start earning xp in your fate xp bar. If you switch your active destiny to an unmaxed destiny, you stop earning fate xp and start earning destiny xp for that destiny.

    4) Epic tr would then require a) capping your epic levels, and b) capping at least one destiny. No xp is ever "wasted" because every xp you earn always goes into 1 of the 3 bars until you have the maximum fate points, which would be tens of millions of xp. Grinding out twists in off-destinies would become a tiny, trivial part of fate point grinding because you'd only have to do off destinies long enough to unlock the actual abilities you wanted to twist in.
    Already thought up, already proposed, and already told by Devs it will not happen.

    One could earn up to 40 fate points per ETR thru this method,
    and they don't like that.

  15. #1595

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    Some good new, and part of Glin's first post coming into the Xoriat server soontm:

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Very soon we’ll be opening Lamannia with the newest version of Enhancements. Included in that version of the game code are several new features and changes coming to quest XP in the expansion. We wanted to highlight what’s coming with a very early write up, because the changes that you’ll see on Lamannia are not yet ready for testing, and include a lot of place-holder numbers. Today we wanted to talk about the changes so that you have some insight into what features are coming:

    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.

    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.

    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.

    Finally, we will be adding a new way to receive bonus XP: Sagas. New NPCs will be arriving in Eberron and Faerûn who chronicle the deeds of heroes across multiple story archs/adventure packs. By completing all the quests in a given Saga, you can speak with the Saga NPC to claim an extra reward such as a large one-time XP grant, guild XP, or even tomes. The quality of those rewards can also be influenced by running the quests on higher difficulties.

    We are still refining what the final numbers will be for these changes and bonuses, and as we get closer to Expansion launch day we will go into greater detail. The version that will appear on Lamannia is not meant for testing, and is there merely because we have taken an early game build to continue Enhancements review with players. You’re welcome to provide feedback on what you see, but it is not something Lamannia participants should focus on because it is still a work in progress.

    We hope you’ve enjoyed this early look, as we’d like to continue these types of posts to let players peek behind the DM screen a bit more ahead of Shadowfell Conspiracy.

    - PurpleFooz

  16. #1596

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    YES on option 1, if it includes the one-time multiple bonding of capped ED's on all first-time ETR's, regardless of time from implementation.

    Maybe 30-50% bonded with accompanying PL's commensurate with amount of XP relative to total epic XP for cap.
    I respect your point of view on this matter.

    It is very possible, that with the level cap rising to 28 that the epic destinies will be raised to level 8,
    requiring you to gain more xp in whichever ones you wish to bind. Would that affect your decision?

  17. #1597

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.
    I learned a new word today, lol, hats off to you Purple Fooz.

    I am thinking here that the 2nd life xp will have a solid modifier applied to the whole life,
    instead of +5% each level. Similar with legend lives. Sound great to me, this gets rid of
    the spiral effect which eventually becomes problematic.

    The spiral can be discouraging and intimidating for the typical player.
    I get a lot of tells, asking for advice on "I'm level X, what quests should I do now?
    Do I need to start banking? Is it ok to move to X level quests even though I
    could keep repeating X level quests. Etc, etc, etc..."

    Again Thank you.
    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.
    This has been repeatedly asked for time and again.
    This is a huge thing to allow.
    This solves the whole, I don't do this quest now, because I want Epic Xp from it later on.

    This also reaches out to the average player, because they will know if they really mess up
    their TR Legend planning, then they can just log out, log back in on another toon and wait
    out for their messed up planning to clear up.

    ~~If you paint yourself in a corner, that toon can get out a book and read till the paint dries.~~

    Those zerg farming for best XP per minute will not likely abuse this because they are not patient.
    I know, I have watched them, so abuse of this will be minimal.
    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.
    Nice, the daily dice returns in the form of xp.
    I love it.

    This spreads out your questing and promotes the one and done type gaming more.

    A little bit vague on details there, such as is this once per character per day?
    Or is it once per quest per character per day?
    Or is it once per server per day? {Unlikely}
    Finally, we will be adding a new way to receive bonus XP: Sagas. New NPCs will be arriving in Eberron and Faerûn who chronicle the deeds of heroes across multiple story archs/adventure packs. By completing all the quests in a given Saga, you can speak with the Saga NPC to claim an extra reward such as a large one-time XP grant, guild XP, or even tomes. The quality of those rewards can also be influenced by running the quests on higher difficulties.
    More to promote the once and done crew over the farming crew.
    I like this very much.
    We are still refining what the final numbers will be for these changes and bonuses, and as we get closer to Expansion launch day we will go into greater detail. The version that will appear on Lamannia is not meant for testing, and is there merely because we have taken an early game build to continue Enhancements review with players. You’re welcome to provide feedback on what you see, but it is not something Lamannia participants should focus on because it is still a work in progress.
    Thank you for putting the mechanic in place, we understand the numbers might not be set in concrete.
    We hope you’ve enjoyed this early look, as we’d like to continue these types of posts to let players peek behind the DM screen a bit more ahead of Shadowfell Conspiracy.

    - PurpleFooz
    Yes, we have.
    Thank you.

    Replying here because it is one of the things listed in Glin's post #1.


    As stated before, you are going to need huge concessions to have us accept proposal 1.
    While we love these changes, they are not enough for me to accept proposal 1.


    VOTE NO TO PROPOSAL ONE!

  18. #1598
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    Default Playing not appropriate EDs with the proposed ETR system??

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Consider if I want to roll up a brand new shirardi sorc. You tell me: What destiny do I pick as my first one?

    How about a fury of the wild paladin? The starting destiny would be...?

    I would say that for the shiradi sorc, with the proposed ETR system, you would roll up a Ranger first, take that to cap with Shiradi and then ETR into a sorcerer (off course you would probably throw in another few sorc lifes and maybe a wizard before you are satisfied with the build, but thats just extra).
    For the FotW Paladin you would similarly start off with a barbarian (or a multiclass build you like more, using Barb to take the FotW ED right away), I guess. Or start out with a Druid or a Ranger (the ranger can be multi with a Paladin if you want) take FotW during the run to lvl 28.

    This proposed system can make a lot of sense, but it requires a different approach.

    I fully agree with you that its not a good idea to have everyone buy the ED pack, let the players work on their EDs and twists and then tell them that 2 years after introduction they will likely lose most of that effort/investment from a single TR. But the system as such makes sense and can make for better game play.
    Last edited by Nascoe; 06-20-2013 at 11:33 AM. Reason: took out notes in brackets

  19. #1599
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    Default Epic TR and ED choice

    I have a novel thought that could help cut out the endless work needed to take the best EDs for your character.

    Let me explain:

    Up to now, EDs have been a one time choice per character, wich makes perfect sense when you get to keep your EDs through TR. The proposal is, to bond/flag or whatever we call it, an ED, give an ED-PL feat and reset the XP, including ED Xp to 0 (or to use it towards heroic levels etc.)
    The Idea is that when people TR they give up something (advancement on their character) for a fresh start with a potentially more powerfull character. But when we TR currently we give up a life, get the appropriate PL and then we can freely choose a new character class. Why then shouldn't we get to choose which ED we want to take with after a character that did an ETR reaches lvl 20 again?

    That would at least eliminate the need to take a path from Sorcerers Draconic Incarnation (assuming you want the DI past life otherwise you would pick Fatesinger right away?), through Fatesinger, Shadowdancer, LD to finally get where we want - the Shiradi Champion.

    Off course you can take that path by doing one of them per ETR, bonding, etc, but that would mean you have to do multiple ETRs and lives before you get there. If we are allowed to choose again, you can just start out with a different character and choose an ED that brings you towards your targeted ED right away without the grind to get there step by step being required.

  20. #1600
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Allow players to pick ANY epic destiny

    Ok, here is something we can probably all agree on.


    I keep hearing over and over the fears with these changes of leveling an ED that is not suited to your class, in order to work your way towards your desired ED, so here is what I propose:

    1. Allow players to pick ANY ED at level 20

    2. Every ED should increase caster levels by 5 (this will help multiclasses and add more fun to the system)
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

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