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  1. #1561
    Community Member Varinox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    That is why its a fairly good bet, the level cap will remain at 30,
    but evil outsider will challenge us with uber raids and quest
    that press the limits of our abilities.

    An new portal to somewhere like Dark Sun will open,
    creating Psionic opportunities, etc...
    Psionics are as much a part of Eberron, See: Quori, Kalashtar Psiforged, etc, still not got any of them though

    That being said Dark Sun! Ooooh!!!!!

    P.S. Would still prefer more of a focus on Eberron, I'd love to go see Sharn, but I think if they really want us to go Planewalking they just need to add Sigil, then all the realms open up!
    Main Forum Account Status: Being Fixed!

  2. #1562
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Disappointed in the direction this is taking

    I for one am severely disappointed in the direction these discussions are going. This thread has been dominated by the posts of a few "uber competitionists" who represent .0001% of the player base, and yet are posting 5 times to everyone else s one to bury other suggestions under their own.


    They like the current TR grind, and don't see it as such. But I can guarantee you that the VAST MAJORITY of the player base sees the current TR system as a grind, and do NOT enjoy it.


    I would like to know how the grind is being reduced to make TR and Epic TR more excessable to people who cant devote the 30+ hours of playtime a week that these others can? How is the grind being reduced? Because adding this system adds yet another grind to the game. An optional grind, but since there are no real other "options" to increase our characters power its not much of an "option" is it?
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 42/42, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I for one am severely disappointed in the direction these discussions are going. This thread has been dominated by the posts of a few "uber competitionists" who represent .0001% of the player base, and yet are posting 5 times to everyone else s one to bury other suggestions under their own.


    They like the current TR grind, and don't see it as such. But I can guarantee you that the VAST MAJORITY of the player base sees the current TR system as a grind, and do NOT enjoy it.


    I would like to know how the grind is being reduced to make TR and Epic TR more excessable to people who cant devote the 30+ hours of playtime a week that these others can? How is the grind being reduced? Because adding this system adds yet another grind to the game. An optional grind, but since there are no real other "options" to increase our characters power its not much of an "option" is it?
    The tr isn't a grind, it's fun. Heroic questing is much more enjoyable than anything epic. It used to be pre BB and tomes of learning. I would be greatly disappointed if were boxed into playing less heroic content. Now if skipping content is really your thing, every now and then an opportunity comes along to otto's your way thru.

  4. #1564
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I for one am severely disappointed in the direction these discussions are going. This thread has been dominated by the posts of a few "uber competitionists" who represent .0001% of the player base, and yet are posting 5 times to everyone else s one to bury other suggestions under their own.


    They like the current TR grind, and don't see it as such. But I can guarantee you that the VAST MAJORITY of the player base sees the current TR system as a grind, and do NOT enjoy it.


    I would like to know how the grind is being reduced to make TR and Epic TR more excessable to people who cant devote the 30+ hours of playtime a week that these others can? How is the grind being reduced? Because adding this system adds yet another grind to the game. An optional grind, but since there are no real other "options" to increase our characters power its not much of an "option" is it?
    Do you enjoy playing the game?

    If you enjoy playing the game, TRing allows you to play the game with a different set of abilities and preserve any bound to character equipment, wealth, and store purchases you have acquired.

    If you don't enjoy playing the game, not TRing isn't going to fix that.

  5. #1565
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    The TR "Grind" only sucks on a 36 point level after level 17.

  6. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Devs, please read this... excellent summary... We always want to feel like we're progressing... Heroic TR works from 1-18 because each level gets you something... Level 19 gives almost nothing (maybe some random gear ML), AND 18-20 takes a ton of exp, so it feels like a dead spot...

    I am worried that you are creating a new dead spot from 25-28... You'll already have your 2 EDs maxed half-way through 25, working on any other ED is a waste of exp since it will disappear on epic TR.

    Here's how I would fix end-game

    Epic TR back to level 1... Get the ED PL... lose none of the ED exp. The trade-off is that you have to level back to level 28... from level 1. This is how the current TR system works and it's very successful.
    Add a ED every 6 months
    Add more 25-28 content.
    Epic ToD and VoD and Shroud
    1 new epic raid every year
    Make it possible to upgrade level 20 epic gear to level 28, so they are worthwhile again.

    And while you're at it:

    Increase exp for Amrath and Cannith quests. A lot. Why haven't you done this yet?
    Increase exp for challenges. A little.
    I agree second everything stated here.

    Kamode
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  7. #1567
    Community Member Ghwyn's Avatar
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    I have seen a few suggestions that would make the loss of ED xp worth it. One is the trade in leveling xp. Also, keeping twist points should be part of it. A 38 point build would have many give up their ED xp willingly so long as the other items I mention happen.

    With the higher levels and another feat selection, maybe having access to a level 5 twist would be a nice feat.
    Gwhyn Saige - heroic and epic completionist, loving the EK build
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...elee-wizard-EK

  8. #1568
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I for one am severely disappointed in the direction these discussions are going. This thread has been dominated by the posts of a few "uber competitionists" who represent .0001% of the player base, and yet are posting 5 times to everyone else s one to bury other suggestions under their own.


    They like the current TR grind, and don't see it as such. But I can guarantee you that the VAST MAJORITY of the player base sees the current TR system as a grind, and do NOT enjoy it.


    I would like to know how the grind is being reduced to make TR and Epic TR more excessable to people who cant devote the 30+ hours of playtime a week that these others can? How is the grind being reduced? Because adding this system adds yet another grind to the game. An optional grind, but since there are no real other "options" to increase our characters power its not much of an "option" is it?
    what does amount of time spent playing have to do with TRing? is it a race to see who gets to cap first? the casuals versus the power gamers? sounds like you want to level the playing field between both types of play styles and in between because some people can play more hours than others.

    im not saying that there doesn't need to be any adjustments to reducing grind for TRing, but comparing one play style to another and using that as a basis for a fix isn't the right answer.

  9. #1569
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I for one am severely disappointed in the direction these discussions are going. This thread has been dominated by the posts of a few "uber competitionists" who represent .0001% of the player base, and yet are posting 5 times to everyone else s one to bury other suggestions under their own.

    They like the current TR grind, and don't see it as such. But I can guarantee you that the VAST MAJORITY of the player base sees the current TR system as a grind, and do NOT enjoy it.

    I would like to know how the grind is being reduced to make TR and Epic TR more excessable to people who cant devote the 30+ hours of playtime a week that these others can? How is the grind being reduced? Because adding this system adds yet another grind to the game. An optional grind, but since there are no real other "options" to increase our characters power its not much of an "option" is it?
    I would answer this, but I don't want to be accused of trying to hog the conversation.

  10. #1570
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I am worried that you are creating a new dead spot from 25-28... You'll already have your 2 EDs maxed half-way through 25, working on any other ED is a waste of exp since it will disappear on epic TR.
    That'd actually be a point for resetting the ED.

    For instance, my main has all ED's max'ed out. I'd be to Epic TR and the ED's don't reset the "dead spot" would be 10 levels large: starting at level 18 (for the reasons you stated) all the way to 28.
    Now, if only one ED resets, the "dead spot" would happen between levels 23 (when I have that ED max'ed out again) and 28.
    If the ED's reset the "dead spot" would happen only at 25 (to 28) which is less a dead spot than in any of the alternatives.

    Similar holds true for a brand new player. You probably end up with 4 EDs max'ed out by the time you hit cap at level 28. Assuming ED's don't reset the player would only be good for three ETRs before he has all Destinies max'ed out and hit the same dead spot.

    So, if "dead spot" is a concerned option one (banking) would actually be the best as you don't really have a dead spot as any epic xp still helps making the next TR/ETR faster.

    Personally I don't think the "banking" system is as bad as some make it out, but just needs a little tweaking. I'd be to design it I would not bank XP directly but convert XP to a currency. Basically, every level a player has in an ED is converted to a certain amount of, say, Leveling Coins. Then allow for Leveling Coins either be traded in for Heroic or Epic XP stones. Ie:

    Heroic XP stones cost 1 leveling coins, each stone is worth 100.000 XP.
    Epic XP stones cost 10 leveling coins, each stone is worth 500.000 XP.

    Obviously, numbers can (and likely should be) adjusted. I just used random numbers for the sake of making an example.

    It may be more complicated doing it that way, but could have the benefit that it is fairly flexible in allowing players to (re)use their Epic progress to skip whatever part of (E)TR they like the least.

    Obviously I can only talk about myself, but for me it was not grinding out EDs in general I had the problem with, what was no fun was running around in off destinies. This system would allow for players mostly concerned about preserving their EDs to apply their Leveling Coins towards recouping most (or a part) of them.

    Players who dislike going through levels 18-20 could apply their Leveling Coins to skip that part of a TR and therefor end up having to re-level one or two more EDs than someone who puts all their past progress to recoup EDs.
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  11. #1571
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    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...s-as-an-option

    Wanted to cross link this thread about Gender changes and Reincarnations (either Lesser or True), since it is probably more likely to catch a developer's eye here than in the General Forums.. I know that this is something that some interest was shown in awhile back, but not exactly an overwhelming amount. Seems like if the Reincarnation system is being reworked, it might be expedient to check into the viability of making this work now, while everything is being reworked anyways.

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    That'd actually be a point for resetting the ED.

    For instance, my main has all ED's max'ed out. I'd be to Epic TR and the ED's don't reset the "dead spot" would be 10 levels large: starting at level 18 (for the reasons you stated) all the way to 28.
    Now, if only one ED resets, the "dead spot" would happen between levels 23 (when I have that ED max'ed out again) and 28.
    If the ED's reset the "dead spot" would happen only at 25 (to 28) which is less a dead spot than in any of the alternatives.

    Similar holds true for a brand new player. You probably end up with 4 EDs max'ed out by the time you hit cap at level 28. Assuming ED's don't reset the player would only be good for three ETRs before he has all Destinies max'ed out and hit the same dead spot.

    So, if "dead spot" is a concerned option one (banking) would actually be the best as you don't really have a dead spot as any epic xp still helps making the next TR/ETR faster.

    Personally I don't think the "banking" system is as bad as some make it out, but just needs a little tweaking. I'd be to design it I would not bank XP directly but convert XP to a currency. Basically, every level a player has in an ED is converted to a certain amount of, say, Leveling Coins. Then allow for Leveling Coins either be traded in for Heroic or Epic XP stones. Ie:

    Heroic XP stones cost 1 leveling coins, each stone is worth 100.000 XP.
    Epic XP stones cost 10 leveling coins, each stone is worth 500.000 XP.

    Obviously, numbers can (and likely should be) adjusted. I just used random numbers for the sake of making an example.

    It may be more complicated doing it that way, but could have the benefit that it is fairly flexible in allowing players to (re)use their Epic progress to skip whatever part of (E)TR they like the least.

    Obviously I can only talk about myself, but for me it was not grinding out EDs in general I had the problem with, what was no fun was running around in off destinies. This system would allow for players mostly concerned about preserving their EDs to apply their Leveling Coins towards recouping most (or a part) of them.

    Players who dislike going through levels 18-20 could apply their Leveling Coins to skip that part of a TR and therefor end up having to re-level one or two more EDs than someone who puts all their past progress to recoup EDs.
    The problem with this is that epic levels rely on those EDs for most of their power. With the system we have every time one finishes one ED and starts a new one is like a mini-TR in and of itself in that they are giving up most of their epic power by doing so. Their actual character level progression is more of a side effect than anything else as character levels add little in comparison.

    It's different than the old heroic TR system where players tend to be at full power compared to the content they are running because each level gains them the full power of their build. With the proposed loss of ED xp, one wouldn't generally reach that point until well after they hit the character level cap as it takes regrinding unbound EDs to regain fate points and twists.

    For me, heroic TRing involves running elite content, generally only once. While ED grinding involves running normal or maybe hard content many times to get to a position where I'm comfortable running elite. With the proposed system that point likely wouldn't be reached until several ETRs are finished as regrinding ED's I'm just going to lose every life, generally after already being qualified for the next ETR, seems a rather pointless exercise.

    So for myself, at least, meaning full use of EE and even some EH content is either something that is several ETRs away or would require a side trip down a dead end as far as character progression goes.

  13. #1573
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    QMX posted during the Great Forum Blackout (migration retention) that Wheloon is going to be level 16 quests (non-multimode, heroic only), and Shadowfell is going to be level 27 quests (epic only), no raids.
    That is the scariest thing I've read all week, including TR changes. 5 whole quests to cover a 3 level increase as well as cover the non existence of any current level 25 content. I'm just not seeing how that's remotely possible. You would have to be able to gain a level from each quest somehow. I really want to think that the devs have some sort of plan in place to give us enough content to actually level up with. I'm fully expecting next year's expansion to increase the level cap to 45 and have 3 quests in the pack to cover level 29 - 45.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  14. #1574
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    Just one more post thrown in a huge pile of bits to mention...

    I really don't like having to play in the wrong destiny most of the time I'm grinding epic experience... and with epic TRs... that will be a very long time.

    Consider, TR is short for grinding xp... and epic is a code word for bigger than ever. So epic TR means grinding xp in a way that is bigger than ever!!!

    Please don't make me go through that journey in the wrong destiny!

  15. #1575
    Community Member Thud's Avatar
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    I just found out about the plans on wiping ED xp and am fairly numb. I prepurchased the expansion for 2 accounts. Guess I need to look into a refund for both because this was in no way mentioned in the sales pitch.
    Groz, Almostthere, Medicant and Harvezzt. Argo RULES!

  16. #1576
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    That is the scariest thing I've read all week, including TR changes. 5 whole quests to cover a 3 level increase as well as cover the non existence of any current level 25 content. I'm just not seeing how that's remotely possible. You would have to be able to gain a level from each quest somehow. I really want to think that the devs have some sort of plan in place to give us enough content to actually level up with. I'm fully expecting next year's expansion to increase the level cap to 45 and have 3 quests in the pack to cover level 29 - 45.
    Very right. This tree has grown tall enough for now. It is past time that it grew some more branches and spread out.
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  17. #1577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thud View Post
    I just found out about the plans on wiping ED xp and am fairly numb. I prepurchased the expansion for 2 accounts. Guess I need to look into a refund for both because this was in no way mentioned in the sales pitch.
    Hang in there; they haven't cooked us yet. There are quite a few smart people in this forum making good suggestions for alternatives, and the gods of DDO seem to be at least hearing them out.
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

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  18. #1578

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    Woot?!!?

    How neglectful of me, allowing real life to interfere with...

    Hmmm....what was I doing here anyway?

    A riot of sorts, what was Fawn rioting about?

    Oh this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thud View Post
    I just found out about the plans on wiping ED xp and am fairly numb. I prepurchased the expansion for 2 accounts. Guess I need to look into a refund for both because this was in no way mentioned in the sales pitch.
    Chin up mate.

    Very few people even began to consider the candy stealing wipe of ED xp.

    The few who realized it would be grand opportunity to farm 40+ fate points
    per life someday had their hopes dashed by the Devs stating they would not
    allow that.

    So we took up our pitchfork and torches and rioted, and I guess we still are.

    Fortunately our rioting resulted in this concession:

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a onetime opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.

    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.
    The Devs have also acknowledge a major proposal by DDOcast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Great post and thoughts, clear and well presented. Thanks for taking the time to write this us.


    Some interesting ideas.
    There are numerous other proposals but all center on one point,
    trying to steer the Devs away from the massive destruction of their Epic Disadvantage brainstorming idea.

    Perhaps the call of the villagers at the moment would be "Vote NO to proposal ONE!"

    Here have a torch and pitchfork, and hope the Devs steer away from this dreadful prospect...

  19. #1579
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    Is this what you're looking for, Silver?
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  20. #1580

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    Woot!?!?!

    VOTE NO TO PROPOSAL ONE!

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