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  1. #1181
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    . . . PAY anymore.
    Appealing to Turbine's wallet is the only thing that'll work.

    this proposed change will cost Turbine more money that it'll earn.

    less people will TR, not more.

    Less people will run epics as running them is pointless until you are done with your heroic lives.

    the proposed change is madness.

  2. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Realistically, I can't see them allowing us to insta-bond 11 ED's at once just because we currently have them all capped.

    I'm not saying that I wouldn't be in favour of it, it would suit me just fine, but I'm not arguing that they should do this because I don't think it's likely.

    If the purpose of Epic TRing was only to let us TR into Iconic classes and it was more about the journey to 28 then maybe this would be viable, as the Epic Destiny journey would be a sideshow, but as a major part of it seems to be to gain a number of ED Past Life Feats, I can't see them granting you 11 in one shot ... on the day it's released. Instant upgrade with 11 Past Life Feats and Epic Completionist? Won't happen.
    Agreed, it seems completely unbalanced, as unbalanced as wiping multiple Epic Destinies in order to get one Epic Destiny past life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post

    There's a proposal on the latest DDOCast about bonding and resetting one destiny at a time that I can follow. I'm still not sure if I'm convinced by the idea that you only lose one ED per Epic TR, but I can follow the argument that if you only gain one ED Past Life at a time, then the cost for this should be a single fixed cost. It does have the advantage that if you only lose one ED worth, then people who haven't capped out every ED yet can still bump them along through subsequent Epic TRing rather than losing everything each time, or through subsequent Heroic TRing and not losing anything each time. It also addresses the issue that your total ED Levels would only drop by 5 each time you Epic TR so it does solve the problem with Fate Points not being completely wiped out.

    See www.ddocast.com for details.
    I didn't watch the podcast (the DDOCast in general seems more geared for the under 12 crowd in terms of its intellectual level), but its nice to see that you are starting to catch up to the point many of us have been at since day 1 of this discussion.

    A one for one trade (Epic Destiny XP for Epic Destiny past life) is a very balanced design, which is why a number of us believe it is the correct approach.

    The other balanced approach, which would properly reward the people who have already capped all the Epic Destinies, would be to simply require all destinies be capped for the first Epic TR for everyone, not just those who have already worked on Epic Destinies for the past year. However, I certainly would not recommend that design, as it appears to be unrealistic, as unrealistic as expecting those who have already capped all their Epic Destinies to accept a total wipe of Epic Destiny XP in exchange for one past life.
    Last edited by GermanicusMaximus; 06-17-2013 at 10:37 AM.

  3. #1183

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    Politely requesting the you seriously consider raising the level of epic destinies to 10 right as you implement this.

    I look at all my completely maxed epic destinies and see them over half empty.

    That right side has some +1s that would be real handy to take,
    but we don't cause we don't even have enough points to spend on the good stuff.

    On my angel destiny I count 11 points I really want to spend more on,
    plus 10 points spent on the side bar, plus lots of kind of nice stuff
    that I could spend points on but don't have to.

    This would be so easy to implement except for the inanates level 6 thru 10.

    Hey, it would be uber expansion even without the inanates, or if the inantes
    where generic.

    What would be an easy inanate to add?
    You brainstorm that, thank you.

    But please consider, as my "completed" epic destinies look very empty.

    I can count between 30 and 41 points to spend in some of them
    would make me much happier with them.

    And think, I don't want to be level 30 (everyone knows the level cap is
    going to 30 sometime in the next 2 years) and only have +5 caster levels
    on my Angel Destiny.


    Also please make nimbus of light increment my endless aura / reborn in light,
    especially if any nimbus of light SLAs show up.


    Fawn is at the point that she does not feel like going back to korthos again,
    but if she can Iconic TR/ETR to level 15 + bonus xp towards near 20, she would feel
    much more comfortable about that.

  4. #1184

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    And if you do this, which logically you are planning to, nobody has a capped epic destiny....

  5. #1185
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    I didn't watch the podcast (the DDOCast in general seems more geared for the under 12 crowd in terms of its intellectual level), but its nice to see that you are starting to catch up to the point many of us have been at since day 1 of this discussion.
    You think that anyone could actually catch up with your awesome genius? I didn't think that you considered it possible.

    But to be clear, I've not changed my opinion that losing unbonded ED XP when you Epic TR isn't an issue, provided that Heroic TRing doesn't touch your Epic XP in any way. I referenced the ddocast because they explained their proposal clearly. Maybe if you had done the same with less nerdrage I could have realised that you broadly share their preference for the new Epic TR system?

    I can cope with the loss and will regain the ED XP over multiple Iconic Lives. Maybe when you lose your misplaced sense of entitlement and consider that the loss of ED XP that's on the table isn't a personal attack aimed at you.

    Now you can either continue to bicker with me and I'll happily reply to you all day long, or you can make an effort to keep it constructive if you have something to say?

  6. #1186

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    Politely requesting that you eliminate all past life feats costing a feat to take.

    Take it from an expert, I don't like spending a feat on completionist, and its uber.
    I rarely if ever took a second past life active feat.

    Politely requesting that all those neat and not so neat ideas get recycled into
    the numerous ideas you will need to build new past lives.

    Politely requesting you make past lives scale better.

    Politely requesting that if you do not make the fate points accumulate being earn,
    you go way way overboard in your compensation instead, realizing that if you
    increase the epic destiny level cap to 10, and increase the epic destinies available
    by 2, then the potential to earn fate points each life would be around
    13 minus bound epic destines time 10 = 120 divided by 3 = 40 ish fate points.
    (It is so obvious to me that the epic destines levels are going to be increased to 10;
    be bold and go ahead and do it, even if you have to add innates afterwards.)

    Politely requesting that you expand twist slots a lot.
    Twists are wildly popular.

  7. #1187

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    A compromise offer:

    Epic Destiny Past Life also grants 10 Fate points.
    Reset fate points to zero each TR.

    No lower than that, a baker's dozen would be nicer.

    This would eliminate the grind of we need to max every epic destiny
    each life for maximum fate points, so I like it.

    For those of you who think I am crazy, do the math yourself
    then ponder it all out.


    A compromise offer:

    Get rid of unlocking epic destinies.
    Take the keys out of the DDO store.
    Computer track down all key purchases and refund TP.

  8. #1188

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    Please don't increase the epic destiny level cap to 10+ now,
    so people don't compound the problem.

    Please increase it to 10+ when you implement this.

    Been predicting for months that the epic destinies are going up someday.
    I know its true, you know its true, be bold and do it.

  9. #1189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloista View Post
    As a late/endgame player who has ground out some but not all Destinies that Epic Destiny Reincarnation would appeal to me as it would effectively just reset my Destinies while leaving Fate Points untouched, offering a different way of farming Fate Points.
    Fate points are the goddess of epics, maybe someday folks will realize that...

  10. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Politely requesting that you eliminate all past life feats costing a feat to take.

    Take it from an expert, I don't like spending a feat on completionist, and its uber.
    I rarely if ever took a second past life active feat.
    Arcane Initiate and Arcane Prodigy are nice, have used Berserkers Fury for the stacking rage bonusses too.

    Would it be too soon to suggest these get recycled into an auto-grant on the 3rd or 4th completion of a heroic class? Or an option at Fred to trade a passive past life feat for an active past life feat?

  11. #1191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Arcane Initiate and Arcane Prodigy are nice, have used Berserkers Fury for the stacking rage bonusses too.
    Except for monk for the better fists, you just named all the past lives worth considering.
    The rest are near junk.
    Would it be too soon to suggest these get recycled into an auto-grant on the 3rd or 4th completion of a heroic class? Or an option at Fred to trade a passive past life feat for an active past life feat?
    If DDO wants us to TR more, then they should strongly consider some auto grants.

    Should uber completionist offer more than completionist?

    Should two or three past lives offer an special auto grant?

    It would be nice.

    Most casters will get 3 wizard lives done for the spell pen.

    A lot of melee will be 3 fighter lives done for the combat DC.

  12. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    You think that anyone could actually catch up with your awesome genius?
    Thank you for the kind words, but I believe you are somewhat overstating the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    But to be clear, I've not changed my opinion that losing unbonded ED XP when you Epic TR isn't an issue, provided that Heroic TRing doesn't touch your Epic XP in any way. I referenced the ddocast because they explained their proposal clearly. Maybe if you had done the same with less nerdrage I could have realised that you broadly share their preference for the new Epic TR system?
    I crafted my opinions so that the average reader would be able to understand them. You may want to check my posting history on this thread. Multiple rereads of them might be of assistance to you, although if you required the DDOCast in order to understand the concepts, even the multiple rereads might not achieve the desired affect.

    Nerdrage? Perhaps you could have just posted DooooMMM!!!!eleven a few times, and elevated(?) the discussion to the same level.

    And lets be clear, you recently posted that you believe that DDO could survive another 20 years. That alone marks your personal opinion on the game in general, or any one of its mechanics, as one that a lot of people will not take seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Maybe when you lose your misplaced sense of entitlement and consider that the loss of ED XP that's on the table isn't a personal attack aimed at you.
    Why would I construe someone who uses phrases like "misplaced sense of entitlement" as engaging in personal attacks? I am sure that you are merely doing the best that you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Now you can either continue to bicker with me and I'll happily reply to you all day long, or you can make an effort to be more constructive if you have something to say?
    You are hardly in a position to lecture anyone about being constructive. Endlessly apologizing for Turbine does not somehow make you constructive.

    If you feel threatened by my objective assessments of how Turbine is failing to handle the game on multiple levels, I would suggest that you find an alternate venue to work through those feelings. Or, you can bicker at me endlessly all day in this thread. You should not, however, expect that I will reciprocate endlessly, as I have a life outside of this game and my self image is not tied to this game. These are goals which you might want to consider for yourself.

  13. #1193

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    If you choose to make all legend life xp equal to the xp of a second life toon,
    or some other reduced xp plan, I as an uber completionist would not be upset or jealous.

    Whether you should do that or not I will not debate.

  14. #1194
    Community Member Cloista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Fate points are the goddess of epics, maybe someday folks will realize that...


    I do, which is exactly why I suggested what I did. Couldn't give a stuff if you clear the XP from Destinies I don't use, as long as I have atleast 1 non-active destiny to provide twists (hence my modified idea with the Bonding) and don't wipe my fate points and actually give me the ability to acquire more and more.
    Knight of the Silver Legion, part of Guild Medieval

  15. #1195
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    How much longer is the DDO staff going to not "discuss" anything in this "Official Turbine Discussion"?

    I appreciate very much Glin posting this thread (I would say to engage with the players, but there has been no engagement as yet to speak of from the Devs, Piloto didn't 'engage' he commented) so that players can DISUSS with him the changes and whatnot, but frankly, like all the oither threads, this seems from an outsider looking in to have been nothing but a bone tossed to the players with no care, thought, or regards to actually do anything but give us a place to type to empty air.

    How about a new sub-forum for things like this? Official Turbine Don't Care Thoughts.

    That way there is no expectation of a 'Discussion'. We only get to see what you Devs are thinking, the whole time knowing you will never actually post past the OP of a thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Codog View Post
    [*]Small evolutionary change that can be completed in shorter stretches of time is more readily achieveable for us than large _revolutionary_ change. Revolutionary change can be rather destabilizing from an engineering and balance perspective.

  16. #1196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Arcane Initiate and Arcane Prodigy are nice, have used Berserkers Fury for the stacking rage bonusses too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Except for monk for the better fists, you just named all the past lives worth considering.
    The rest are near junk.
    I'd also include the Past Life: Sneak of Shadows as being a nice boost for the +1 to all skills and the sneak attack damage clicky for boss fights.

    Besides those five feats, the past life feats just aren't impressive enough to pick up. Additionally, a number of them give nothing to the base class, with Paladin and Ranger being in the forefront of useless to the base class.

  17. #1197

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    I am sick and tired of paying a feat slot for past life feats.

    In my final life, I actually, yes actually strongly considered not taking the completionist feat.

    There are so many normal feats that are really important to have.

    When we add a few more nice epic feats, and don't deny that more nice epics are
    coming, then the little bit of wiggle space we have at the moment will disappear again.


    Why not something like:

    Monk past life, you gain +1 at level one, and an additional plus 1 at each ten
    character levels gained thereafter. Your unarmed damage is increased by +0.33 [W]

    Probably not quite right, but this addresses several issues at once.
    The lack of scaling bonuses, elimination of the purchasable feat,
    and making monks more interested in TRing.


    If DDO wants us to TR, then lets do it right.

    You want cows to move to another pasture, you don't chase them thru the gate,
    lest you get trampled. You go to the barn, open a nice big bag of feed and
    stick some in a metal bucket. You go to the gate, open it and rattle the bucket,
    you go to the feed trough in the new pasture and dump three bags of feed in it.


    quote: I will never TR again unless they make the benefits really uber

    quote: I hate legend life xp

  18. #1198

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    Quote Originally Posted by forummuleonly View Post
    How much longer is the DDO staff going to not "discuss" anything in this "Official Turbine Discussion"?
    Ok, a bit of insight on how these things work without saying more than I can.

    The gods have seen that our paths have strayed from the ancient text.

    The gods have sent holy decrees to mankind.
    High priest Glin showed us the gilded leaves.

    Our riot has got the gods attention.
    Please villagers watch your language but keep your pitchforks handy.

    The gods of DDO are watching.
    Glin cannot do anything that these gods will not allow.

    It takes time for Glin to communicate back and forth with the gods.

    It takes time to speak in godesse.
    The gods ponder, but anything worth saying is best spoken in godesse.


    Already the gods stir, you can feel it deep in the soil of eberron...

  19. #1199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloista View Post
    I do, which is exactly why I suggested what I did. Couldn't give a stuff if you clear the XP from Destinies I don't use, as long as I have atleast 1 non-active destiny to provide twists (hence my modified idea with the Bonding) and don't wipe my fate points and actually give me the ability to acquire more and more.
    Nods in agreement.

    Hey, Fawn is willing to walk up to Fred and click yes to the option:

    "Would you like to dump all you Epic Destiny Xp in the trash can right now with no
    benefits?"
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-17-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  20. #1200
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Wrong. Please, remember that this is more of a brainstorming session than it is a set in stone announcement about what's coming.

    Additionally, while we appreciate people's passionate opinions about this issue, the amount of rage in this thread needs to be lowered. Nothing is set in stone. Repeat:

    NOTHING IS SET IN STONE.

    I have frequently read on the forums that folks would like to see more back and forth with the developers in regards to hot issues undergoing development work. This is your chance to do so in a way that doesn't amount to screaming in someone's face. Keep in mind that there's a lot of discussion taking place based on your feedback, but a lot of that discussion will not be made public until it's in a state to put out there as a possibility or an idea being put forward for feedback.


    Note...I'm not screaming here....I am a Turbine fan. I love DDO and hope it's lifespan at least matches that of Asherron's call.

    With that being said, the one real dev reply on this subjuect seemed to point out that losing destinies during heroic TR was an important feature of the new TR system. The ONE and only reply to the nerdrage going on in this thread didn't give us any hope that the specific Idea of losing destinies in this fashion was negotiable. Instead he (Piloto) spent more time explaining why this would happen and didn't give us comfort that it is possible that this idea could be taken off the table.

    If someone at turbine would tell us: "We hear you and are truly considering taking this feature (Loss of Destinies in heroic TR) off the table, people might actaully feel better. We know nothing is written in stone, but it seems there might be some stong opinions on the development team that may have overall veto power over the loud protests here in the fourms.

    Make us feel better. Make us think you are truly listening to us.

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